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PunkRocketScience

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Hello all-

The Punk Rocket team is looking for our project for next year's Plaster Blaster and have stumbled on an idea that we like (because it'll be huge and funky), but we have many questions....

First off, here's a link to the plans for the original:

https://www.dars.org/jimz/cen5345.htm

We are thinking of working at approx. 9.14x up... based on a 36" outer ring, which would give us a finspan of nearly 9 feet! Not bad for a rocket that would only be 30" tall! Our initial discussions are leaning toward foam fins with hardwood edging covered with a couple of layers of glass to keep the weight down.

Oh, yeah...just to add another layer of difficulty, we are thinking about loading the "solar panels" with LEDs and night launching it...

Any suggestions/concerns/donations for mental health therapy? Anyone got the skill with Rocksim to try and build a model of this monster?
 
Holy cow, that would be an awesome upscale project!! Keep us posted!
 
Do it! That would be insane. What size motors are we lookin' at with this?
 
Did you see the saucer night launched on the J90 at NARAM this year?

Bottom line: do not use a low thrust to weight ratio and remember that drag and weathercocking will be severe.
 
Wow. Note to self: monitor this thread for daily updates!
 
Originally posted by shreadvector
Did you see the saucer night launched on the J90 at NARAM this year?


DUDE! Could you see this thing with LED's in the side panels.... blinking and flashing... ..."eat at Joe's"... :D

Yeah, that has potential!
 
Alright....let's take them in order:

DK - If we decide that it will be safely flyable, we will definately post a build thread.

Flamboyant - We have only just started the process of deciding whether or not to even give it a shot...but it's gonna have to be a big motor! Hopefully by the time of Plaster Blaster next year, at least one of our team members will have his level three! And besides... that's what team projects are all about...getting somebody else to help pay for the propellant!

Shread - Was the J80 saucer the one on Wolfstar's site? That was pretty darn cool if it was...

Geof - Probably not daily updates....we probably won't actually start building until early next year.

Jim - Make us an offer and we'll make it say "Fly Fliskits....or else!" This is something of a point of contention.... We have to see how much weight a ton (yeah...I know... a ton...) of LEDs would add. We are thinking of possibly putting on one in each of the little tiny hexes on the panels... Or the Punk Rocket Science logo... Or a bunch of other ideas...

I loaded the fin patterns up in AutoCAD today, and I must say that they would be HUGE! We are struggling with the idea of how to make the fins strong enough to take a M, but light enough that they don't need a M cluster to fly on..... Would glass (or carbon fiber) covered foam be rigid enough? Don't know...not enough experience with composites... Opinions?
 
Glassed (or CF'd) honeycomb. All the strength but almost none of the weight. Expensive though.

This is sort of what I had in mind. Just an example, never had any dealings with them before. If you look at most composite planes, they're fiberglassed honeycomb.

-Aaron
 
Originally posted by PunkRocketScience


Jim - Make us an offer and we'll make it say "Fly Fliskits....or else!" This is something of a point of contention.... We have to see how much weight a ton (yeah...I know... a ton...) of LEDs would add. We are thinking of possibly putting on one in each of the little tiny hexes on the panels... Or the Punk Rocket Science logo... Or a bunch of other ideas...


Ohhh, small flat panel displays :D (only giood for daytime use, but much lighter)

Then you could sell ad space such as:

Buy FlisKits!

Aim for the sky, and try not to miss! :D

Your ad here!

If this were YOUR rocket, you'd be flying already!


=========================================
And the list goes on... :D
 
Remember that you will have to transport the beast to the launch site. Can you get something 9ft across into a trailer so it will ride safely? Or, will you put it on top of an RV so it looks like you're being persued by aliens?

A programmable led message sign would be complex, but you can sell advertising and just build the LED's to blink a fixed message. There are very small ultra-bright LED's now that wouldn't weigh much.

PM me if you are going to RocStock. I have some very lightweight plastic box baffle material that I picked up as a sample to use as a core for larger fins with either fiberglass or CF. I'll bring a piece with me.

I would be happy to contribute some plywood and CNC routing to the project.

Ken

I still haven't seen any progress on the website!
 
Check out the Fat Boy build at www.arizonarocketryteam.net
We used 1/4" nomex honeycomb with 2 layers of galss for the bulkhead strunger system on the Fat Buy. Nicw and string and light weight.

You could also get with Krater Ken at a Plaster City Launch ( he should be there this weekend) and talk to him about it.

As far as the advertising, I was thinking
Panel #1 the PunkRocketScience Logo
Panel #2 the Plaster Blaster Logo
Panel #3 Trade Ad space to a motor vendor (AT or CTI) for the needed motors for the flight
Panel #4 Trade Ad space to Andy for the parts you will get from him
Panel #5 to the highest bidder !!!

The most important part - Have fun with what ever you decide to do !!!

Arizona Rocketry Team will be announcing it's Plaster Blaster Project sometime after A.R.G. which is the last weekend of Feb. 07. Keep an eye on the website.
 
Roy,

Where did you get the honeycomb nomex?

BTW, I have a bunch of pix of Fat Albert. Let me know if you want me to send a disk.

Ken
 
Originally posted by PunkRocketScience


Shread - Was the J80 saucer the one on Wolfstar's site? That was pretty darn cool if it was...


wasn't mine, never flown it on a J90, J350 yes, and WOW what a flight! Now I want to try a AMW sparky.
 
Ken-

We are thinking removable, bolt on fins and panels. It would collapse down to a fairly compact transportable size then.

Roy-

Hehe... Great suggestions! Not to get to political here...but we were joking around about changing "eat at joe's" to "eat at jose's" as we will be launching so near the border with Mexico....

Unfortunately, I won't be out at Plaster this weekend or at RocStock, but I'll see if I can't find a local vendor for honeycomb cores. If nothing else, I might be able to get the material from Giant Leap.
 
Originally posted by PunkRocketScience
...We have only just started the process of deciding whether or not to even give it a shot...

On behalf of the entire TRF community, we have made the decision for you:

BUILD IT

-DAllen
 
Not 100% positive but I thiink Krater ken got it from Soller Composies.

I will check and let you know for sure.

Saks - Check you PM I sent you one.
 
I think the collective has talked us into it. If anyone has a flatbed truck they could bring to plaster that would help... :)

I imagine it'll appear at the next PB. We'll post build pictures when we get past all the engineering on this monster...That's a lot of LEDs
 
M'kay gang... Here's the first pass at the rocksim.... Looks like we might have a problem....:(

Can any of the Rocksim wizards here add the solar panels onto the ends of the fins for me? They should be 22.91" wide by 27.69" high. Also... can you double check the model for me... The flight was somewhat lower than I expected...
 
Originally posted by PunkRocketScience
M'kay gang... Here's the first pass at the rocksim.... Looks like we might have a problem....:(

Can any of the Rocksim wizards here add the solar panels onto the ends of the fins for me? They should be 22.91" wide by 27.69" high. Also... can you double check the model for me... The flight was somewhat lower than I expected...

Todd,

What is the angle that the panels are canted? This model is dynamic base drag stabilized. I will have to figure out how to do this for each panel. I don't like the way RockSim calculates the drag and center of pressure for tube and ring tail fins so its going to take a while for me to convert this design using all my techniques. Attached is a quick and dirty simualtion I made of the design. Note there is a problem with the "dish" and the software doesn't seem to handle this backwards transiton very well, I am looking into this problem.

Bruce S. Levison, NAR #69055
 
.6 mach and 4,000 feet? Seems a little optimistic for a draggy design like this, and if those numbers are true I would use much smaller motors, those sort of speeds will be a LOT of aerodynamic stress on those panels...
 
I would recommend end core balsa, I did a bit of research because I need some light but very stiff fins for my upscale interceptor. The end core balsa is in itself very rigid for its weight and has very high compression strength. Some 1/4" or even 1/2" end core balsa with some layers of glass on each side (I am probably going to do 4 layers on each side of the 1/4" for my fin material) would be a very solid, yet very light weight fin.
 
Todd,

Here is my best shot at the simulation of the Satellite Killer design. I have been unable to put base drag stabilization into this design. I am not sure if this is because of the complexity of the deisgn or the new XML format of the RockSim files. I am still working on adding this correction into the simulation. One other note, I had to put a transition to cover the top of the dish to allow simulations to work. There may be practical reason for this; if the dish bends or wobbles during flight you probably will get and unstable situation due to the induced asymmetry and torque. A clear leaxan top on the dish antenna will help prevent the dish from bending and causing an unstable situatiuon. The panels are now set at an angle and at the tips of the longer fins.

Bruce S. Levison, NAR #69055
 
Jraice-

Thanks for the idea on the materials! That's what I love about TRF! Helpful people willing to share what they have found out! We are thinking of using carbon fiber instead of glass for a couple of reasons. Weight, strength, and if we mask it properly, we can leave the carbon texture showing through the area on the original model that has the "solar panel" hexes in it.

Bruce-

Thank you so much! I truly appreciate your efforts! After my initial modelling, it looked like the project might have to be scrapped! 47 feet on a M just wasn't gonna cut it.... We are thinking of either putting lots of holes or vent slots in the dish so that air can just pass through it, but the clear lexan is a great idea too! The other thing that we thought of that is going to make it even cooler is to use the secondary altimeter deploy of pop the dish and spike off to be recovered seperately so that all the weight of the rocket doesn't land on it! Remember, the original was a rear-ejection design! It's gonna be coming in nose first!
 
Yeah that would look awesome with CF! I have built an all carbon rocket and it looks awesome but it's pricey stuff, the carbon I use is no lighter then the glass I use but I guess you could use the argument that the carbon is stronger so less is needed (so the overall weight is lower).

For my interceptor I am going with glass, first off it doesnt need that much strength, it is getting a stock paint job and I just couldnt force myself to paint a pure carbon airframe! But the biggest factor? $3-$4's a yard for 6oz glass, $50-$60's a yard for 5.6oz CF!

I can get 16 yards of glass for the price of one yard of CF!

Its a great material though, still would recommend end core balsa for the fin core, with a carbon reinforcement.
 
Jesus you guy! Oh man, I definitely gotta tune in for this one..

And I have my truck I can lend to help you set up..

Man.. <grin>
 
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