Aerotech or Cesaroni for L1?

I am planning to fly a beefed up Mirage (see another thread) and was looking at some lower power H's. Both companies have a deal going on right now where they will give you a motor casing. Aerotech is going one better by giving a reload too.

So it sounds like Aerotech is the better deal.

They also have the H128 which seems like a good fit.

But it looks like Cesaroni has a wider range of H motors (H54, H87, H90, H118 and H133) that should work too. And I've heard that their casings are easier to use or quicker to assemble.

So it sounds like Cesaroni might be the better decision.

Any thoughts?

I'd go with CTI. Much easier to assemble and they ignite instantly almost every time. When the time comes, I'll be attempting my level 1 using a CTI motor.

I don't think there is a bad choice to be made between CTI and Aerotech. There are also a couple of other motor manufacturers out there and they have good choices too.

CTI motors in the L1 range are easier to assemble. I find I enjoy assembling my Aerotech motors though and Aerotech are more available at my club launches. I also have had all the hardware for them for years. It's just a matter of personal preference.

Again, either is a good choice.

It totally is a matter up to you and your decision tree. Are you just wanting to check the box or learn something? CTI is really easy to use: open tube, remove from plastic, drill delay, push back into place and screw into case. Done.
Aerotech: Open package, do parts count, match o-rings to pictures and follow directions. You have to lube the rings and keep it off the delay and make sure you keep one set of fingers 'clean' to load and tape down th ejection charge. Sounds intimidating,eh? Until CTI it's what we did. With practice all things are easier.
Here's the kicker: If you want to mail order CTI- it's an automatic Haz-Mat charge unless you have a local vendor-he spreads that all over a much larger order. Aerotech is supported by more on-line suppliers. Grab the bargain you want. They both offer spacer kits now-allowing you a wide range of options without buying every case in sight. You know you'll want others in the future and for me-it's a blend of both. If your as crazy as Troj- you'll end up with about 1600 lbs of precision turned aluminium tubes in your garage. I (re-)certed on an Aerotech H-185 just because it fit my flight envelope/vehicle. Right after that (same day) I flew a G54 long burn.
FWIW- a cert flight with all eyes on you (and your rocket) can be a nervous experience. I'd go with a CTI first for simplicity. You need to worry more about the 'down' part than the 'up' part. Recovery without damage is the key to your cert-the less you worry about the motor, the more you can concentrate on your recovery train. Really-best of luck and I do hope you have a great flight!

You'll have more issues removing staples from the CTI rolls than putting reload together. Aerotech is good, you just have to build it. I did my L1 with an H-238 with the free casing and reload. I have the CTI casing already. Now I have a choice in the future. And I like free stuff I can use later.
Really, there isn't a wrong answer. The factor I had was do I do the L1 with the 29mm motor or 38mm. I chose 29mm since it was free. Safe flights either way.

Davidtmp said:

You'll have more issues removing staples from the CTI rolls than putting reload together. Aerotech is good, you just have to build it. I did my L1 with an H-238 with the free casing and reload. I have the CTI casing already. Now I have a choice in the future. And I like free stuff I can use later.
Really, there isn't a wrong answer. The factor I had was do I do the L1 with the 29mm motor or 38mm. I chose 29mm since it was free. Safe flights either way.

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Removing staples??? why. get out your pocket knife, cut the cardboard right below the bulkhead thats stapled in, once its cut rip and tear done, no more owies from the staples!

majordude said:

Both companies have a deal going on right now where they will give you a motor casing. Aerotech is going one better by giving a reload too.

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Make sure your local vendor will actually give you the Aerotech deal. Ours won't, because as I understand it the vendor loses money on it.

stickershock23 said:

Removing staples??? why. get out your pocket knife, cut the cardboard right below the bulkhead thats stapled in, once its cut rip and tear done, no more owies from the staples!

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Mark- showin' yer age bud. NOBODY has a pocketknife anymore ('cept me.) They DO have Ninja stars, lightsabres and 15 terabyte chips in that pocket tho'...

mikec said:

Make sure your local vendor will actually give you the Aerotech deal. Ours won't, because as I understand it the vendor loses money on it.

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Thank's, I'll check. I fly with ROC so I'll ask around. At the very least, Apogee will give me the deal (kinda) and give me store credit when I show proof of achievement.

i certed on an aero tec, they are more challenging for sure,and you have to do clean up casing too, cessaroni arer almost a single use, i couldnt believe they let people cert w them they are so easy,i traded all my aerotec casigs for cti, just easier and quicker,but i do hear they are more expensive,good luck

Might be hard to find, but the US Rockets H90 Firestarter would be my motor of choice for L1.

fyrwrxz said:

Mark- showin' yer age bud. NOBODY has a pocketknife anymore ('cept me.) They DO have Ninja stars, lightsabres and 15 terabyte chips in that pocket tho'...

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Oh I have those too... yeah Confessed nerd I know!

fyrwrxz said:

Mark- showin' yer age bud. NOBODY has a pocketknife anymore ('cept me.) They DO have Ninja stars, lightsabres and 15 terabyte chips in that pocket tho'...

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Actually, I'm 18 and carry a very nice Buck folding pocketknife wherever I go. I use it quite a bit when assembling AT reloads. :blush:

Yeah, CTI is gonna be more money that AT, and when you mail order 29mm stuff, the $25 HAZMAT slap with CTI makes it lots more money. Because of this, I fly AT exclusively, but if CTI was available at my club launches, I might consider it. Oh, and I don't find the "instant ignition" thing to be a huge selling point for the HP CTI stuff. After all, AT packages their 29mm HP loads with a very reliable Firstfire igniter that's sure to get it lit fast, every time. Just my $0.02.

stickershock23 said:

Removing staples??? why. get out your pocket knife, cut the cardboard right below the bulkhead thats stapled in, once its cut rip and tear done, no more owies from the staples!

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My friend once clipped the nozzle on a reload doing this; you have to be careful to not damage the contents.

fyrwrxz said:

Mark- showin' yer age bud. NOBODY has a pocketknife anymore ('cept me.) They DO have Ninja stars, lightsabres and 15 terabyte chips in that pocket tho'...

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I carry around a pocketknife everywhere. It's pretty great; I actually use every single tool on it.

CTI for ease on the day , my LVL 1 did when weather was about 10* if not in - was very cold , I got lucky the delay on the H was perfect as was just stuck in case and closed


lvl 1 - I didn’t do cert special bought hardware online .. reload at launch site
lvl 2 - in the works I have bought the hardware online ... reload I have on order from vendor at launch site , he doesn’t stock much 54mm CTI reloads

michigander said:

CTI for ease on the day...

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The more I think about it I think the CTI is the way to go. The H90-9 should be perfect.

Whoa fellas!!! My mama always told me not to carry around knives. And no Mark, I'm not pulling out staples with my hand......I carry one of those multi-tools in my box.....If I need a knife, got it. if I need pliers, got it. if I need a screw driver, got it. If I need a woman, well, have to find another tool for that job. I was JUST pointing out how easy CTI loads were to put together!!

What are these staples you speak of?

My opinion, from reading some articles, posts, and books is that CTI would be "better" in my opinion for one simple reason. You already have so much you are going to worry about on your Cert flight, taking a complicated motor out of the equation I would think would help. For my cert, I plan on using a CTI reload just for that reason. Leaves me more time to check out all of the other systems, and make sure the rocket is ready. I would feel better using an AT if I had done it a few times before, and could do it inside out and backwards.

majordude said:

The more I think about it I think the CTI is the way to go. The H90-9 should be perfect.

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Just a suggestion, but there are lots of other small Hs in the 3 grain case that are way cooler than the H90. Classic propellant is pretty boring to watch. Personally, I'd go with the H163 White, just cuz it looks better. If you're worried about stress on the airframe, don't be; the Mirage can take an I200 quite easily, and that's a lot more motor than a little H.

Aerotech now has a single use H, 'bought the same thing.

Go big or go home.....use an H410 for your cert flight.

I have flown a lot of both AeroTech and CTI, I find that CTI reloads have much more accurate delays.
Make sure you get a Hardware set; it comes with a 3 grain case, a 6 grain case, an aft closure ( no closures on 38mm ), 2 spacers and a Delay Adjustment Tool or DAT.
You will then have the ability to fly 43 different reloads! :eyepop: And yes, as people are saying it is VERY EASY to put together and also to adjust the delay. If your vender carries CTI, It's a no brainer.

Just remember that everyone always seems to make bigger and bigger rockets in time that need bigger and bigger motors!! Whatever you get, have fun!

Wiley said:

Just a suggestion, but there are lots of other small Hs in the 3 grain case that are way cooler than the H90. Classic propellant is pretty boring to watch. Personally, I'd go with the H163 White, just cuz it looks better. If you're worried about stress on the airframe, don't be; the Mirage can take an I200 quite easily, and that's a lot more motor than a little H.

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Yeah, I am a little worried about faster burning motors than the slower ones.

Personally, if I were to redo my L1 cert, I would try the CTI H399 White Thunder.

Or maybe just go AT I1299 for the kicks. <--awesome motor by the way

Chuck said:

Go big or go home.....use an H410 for your cert flight.

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That's riiiight! Do it in style!

DeeRoc29 said:

Might be hard to find, but the US Rockets H90 Firestarter would be my motor of choice for L1.

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Definitely not certified.

If you want a sparky load, check out Gorilla Rocket Motors or Loki. Both have great 38mm sparky options!


However, being that the mirage is 29mm, CTI would be the only place to get a sparky.



Braden

I just used an Aerotech H135 SU for my level 1 - no need to worry about losing a case. I have a couple of the 24/40 and 29/40-120 cases. I like the Aerotech - I don't mind the assembly process and I found them cheaper than CTI, especially in the 24mm loads. Bottom line is, use what YOU like and what you feel comfortable using, and with what fits your flying style field/rocket size etc etc... For me the 24/29mm cases work out well and I can use all the way up to the G138 if I want to.

Chuck said:

Go big or go home.....use an H410 for your cert flight.

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Unless you're in Canada, if you want to go big, use an I motor. A I1299N-P like CarVac says, you will need DD for that one. Or do like I did on my L1, use the Loki I110 moonburner with it's 4.2 second burn time? I got 4,200 feet on my L1 cert flight. I did use DD so it landed near by. The I1299N-P I flew later only got 4,028 feet.

As for Aerotech vs. CTI, it's a matter of personal choice, they both have advantages and disadvantages. You have to make up your mind which one, or both, that you want to fly. I fly Aerotech because I have the hardware through 38mm already and they are cheaper then CTI, at least through 38mm. I have both brands of 54mm hardware.

majordude said:

Thank's, I'll check. I fly with ROC so I'll ask around. At the very least, Apogee will give me the deal (kinda) and give me store credit when I show proof of achievement.

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if Jack is there (Whatsuphobby.com), he will have ample supply of both, saving you hazmat fees. He's also known for loaning flyers the case if they buy the reload. Hard to beat that.

Jack does not participate in the Aerotech cert specials, but he does in the CTI cert specials (if he has the case in stock).