LOC Magnum + Lymes Disease===A warning.

yohimbe2 · Dec 21, 2012

OK, to anyone that owns a LOC Magnum, I'd appreciate tips on how to keep the main chute in the tube until 2nd deployment. I've had two flights and both have had early deployment. My last flight on a K540 had a main chute pop at close to 4000 feet. Long story short---I walked and walked.

Now, one thing that has always worried me about this hobby is ticks. I've had a few in my life but never a deer tick. Well, early deployment earned me my first scare with Lymes disease. I removed a fully engorged deer tick. Apparently 1/3 of these ticks are infected.

Sorry to confuse with this unusual post. What is my point?

1. If you are a LOC Magnum user let me know what has worked for you with dual deploy. I am leaning towards shear pins but am curious to hear what others use.

2. Rocketry and ticks. Lets face it, we run around fields all across the county. What is the risk? Opinions/thoughts?

No target circles or rash so far-----fingers crossed.....My next trip will include my camping clothes soaked in tick repellant. (something I use for camping)

GRIFFIN · Dec 21, 2012

your answer lies within your question.

Shear pins is a great way to prevent your problem.

Very commonly used. With cardboard rockets, soak the body tube around the sheer pin hole with thin CA (SUPERGLUE)

Good luck

Brent · Dec 21, 2012

The answer my friend is shear pins. That will keep you from blowing in the wind.

cavecentral · Dec 21, 2012

I've flown mine many times with a TIGHT friction fit on the main, with a looser one on the drogue. If I had trouble with this, shear pins would be the next option.

I've gotten away with friction on my cardboard rockets, but always used shear pins on the fiberglass ones.

A thin sheet of brass is also used for cutting sheer pins on cardboard rockets. I think they peel enough away to glue the brass in place. You can probably find examples of it and the CA method mentioned above.

dixontj93060 · Dec 21, 2012

Look, it is a big issue (especially in the areas of the Midwest that are heavily wooded). Both myself and my 4 year old grandson have Lyme disease. With doctor's care and proper nutrition it can be managed. Honestly I believe contracting the disease is almost a random thing, shear pins and early deployment aside, would have not helped myself or my grandson.

CarVac · Dec 21, 2012

Fly it dual deploy out of one tube with an Archetype cable cutter.

maxvelocity · Dec 21, 2012

Use pieces of masking tape to hold the nose cone on. Good to about mach 1.6ish then they get cleaned off. This is a great and very simple technique.

SSenesy · Dec 21, 2012

Well, you've got some suggestions for the DD question, so I'll move to the second one...

I've had a few ticks on me from flying. I usually make it a point to do a quick inspection before I leave the field, then a more thorough one when I take a shower when I get home.

My biggest problem has been around my house. I've gotten lyme twice - the second time was on the first day outside after recovering from my cancer surgery. I wanted to get the lawn mowed, then found a tick on my lower back the next day. A couple of days later, had the bullseye. The doc put me on antibiotics for 6 weeks and I haven't had problems since. Central NJ has a lot of deer, so the ticks are a huge problem. I have the yard sprayed in the spring, but it usually only lasts a month or two.

blackjack2564 · Dec 21, 2012

Lets get a little more thorough, how about your total recovery set up.

Charge size.
Length of shock cord at apogee
What type and dimension is it. Tn or Kevlar...9/16...1/2 etc..

It could be a number of things....too short a cord, too much BP...etc.

JStitz · Dec 22, 2012

WOW! 18 years in the midwest (Ohio/Ill/penn/min...etc and never an engorged tick...just finding them in the folds of clothing. Is LYMES permanent?
I remember in the woods combing our hunting partners clothing and burning them in a bottle cap above a candle..they make a satisfying pop when they die.:wink:

JDcluster · Dec 22, 2012

I had a Magnum for a few years before a J 570 blow-by killed it.
Never really had an early deployment that I can remember.
Highest flight being 6,500+ ft on a K 700.
Do you Z fold your shock cord?
It really helps disappate the stress of deployment.

JD

cwbullet · Dec 22, 2012

I will bite. As a physician, I consider myself an expert on Lymes Disease.

If it is treated early with antibiotics, there is no permanent symptoms or disability. Lyme disease starts with a rash and then moves from a "local" skin reaction to a body wide or systemic infection.

Early localized infection: It is localized infection is where the Lyme disease has not yet spread throughout the body. The only area affected is where the infection has first come into contact with the skin. The classic sign of early local infection with Lyme disease is a circular (bullseye), outwardly expanding rash called erythema chronicum migrans (also erythema migrans or EM), which occurs at the site of the tick bite three to thirty days after the tick bite.[11][12] The rash is red, and may be warm, but is generally painless. Although the first stage is "local", patients can also experience flu-like symptoms, such as headache, muscle soreness, fever, and malaise. If treated in this stage, generally, patients have a complete recovery.

Early disseminated infection: Within days to weeks after the onset of local infection, the bacteria may begin to spread through the bloodstream. EM may develop at sites across the body that bear no relation to the original tick bite. Other discrete symptoms include migrating pain in muscles, joints, and tendons, and heart palpitations and dizziness caused by changes in heartbeat.

Various acute neurological problems appear in 10–15% of untreated patients. These include facial weakness, which is the loss of muscle tone on one or both sides of the face, as well as meningitis, which involves severe headaches, neck stiffness, and sensitivity to light. Shooting pains similar to a pinched nerve may interfere with sleep, as well as abnormal skin sensations. Mild brain inflamation may lead to memory loss, sleep disturbances, or mood changes. Also, patient may have confusion. The disease may also have cardiac manifestations such as rhythm and rate disturbances.

Late disseminated infection: After several months, untreated or inadequately treated patients may go on to develop severe and chronic symptoms that affect many parts of the body, including the brain, nerves, eyes, joints and heart. Once it reaches this stage, most of the symptoms and conditions are permanent.

yohimbe2 · Dec 22, 2012

blackjack2564 said:
Lets get a little more thorough, how about your total recovery set up.

Charge size.
Length of shock cord at apogee
What type and dimension is it. Tn or Kevlar...9/16...1/2 etc..

It could be a number of things....too short a cord, too much BP...etc.

Charge size, 2 grams. I'm using a Sky Angle chute (very large) and the chute is loaded into the top half of the rocket. First deployment pops the rocket in half. The Ebay is secured to the top with rivets and pins. The shock cord was provided by LOC and I would estimate 12-15 feet of cord on both ends. (dont hold me to this, I havent measured)

I may try another shot in a few weeks with a lower powered engine and a tighter nose cone. I've wound the chute pretty tight allowing a loose fit in the airframe. Maybe I'll loosen it up for a snugger fit.

Shear pins seem like a lot of hassle with these paper bodies. A fellow hobbyist showed me a technique using brass to stop the shear pins from zippering the frame. Great idea, but I'm hoping to find a simpler solution.

I plan to take the top half out on my deck and toss it off with the chute packed to see how much shock caused a release. I imagine it takes a pretty good "hit" up there.

Thanks

yohimbe2 · Dec 22, 2012

cwbullet said:
I will bite. As a physician, I consider myself an expert on Lymes Disease.

If it is treated early with antibiotics, there is no permanent symptoms or disability. Lyme disease starts with a rash and then moves from a "local" skin reaction to a body wide or systemic infection.

Early localized infection: It is localized infection is where the Lyme disease has not yet spread throughout the body. The only area affected is where the infection has first come into contact with the skin. The classic sign of early local infection with Lyme disease is a circular (bullseye), outwardly expanding rash called erythema chronicum migrans (also erythema migrans or EM), which occurs at the site of the tick bite three to thirty days after the tick bite.[11][12] The rash is red, and may be warm, but is generally painless. Although the first stage is "local", patients can also experience flu-like symptoms, such as headache, muscle soreness, fever, and malaise. If treated in this stage, generally, patients have a complete recovery.

Early disseminated infection: Within days to weeks after the onset of local infection, the bacteria may begin to spread through the bloodstream. EM may develop at sites across the body that bear no relation to the original tick bite. Other discrete symptoms include migrating pain in muscles, joints, and tendons, and heart palpitations and dizziness caused by changes in heartbeat.

Various acute neurological problems appear in 10–15% of untreated patients. These include facial weakness, which is the loss of muscle tone on one or both sides of the face, as well as meningitis, which involves severe headaches, neck stiffness, and sensitivity to light. Shooting pains similar to a pinched nerve may interfere with sleep, as well as abnormal skin sensations. Mild brain inflamation may lead to memory loss, sleep disturbances, or mood changes. Also, patient may have confusion. The disease may also have cardiac manifestations such as rhythm and rate disturbances.

Late disseminated infection: After several months, untreated or inadequately treated patients may go on to develop severe and chronic symptoms that affect many parts of the body, including the brain, nerves, eyes, joints and heart. Once it reaches this stage, most of the symptoms and conditions are permanent.

Thank you. I have not seen any target marks or rash so far. I think I might be ok.

My imagination is a bit strong though. I do feel a bit of tightness on the side I was bitten.

I've seen/had many ticks. But this is the first deer tick. Do must people notice them only after they are engorged? Is it possible I missed the target rash? I had the tick for over two weeks.

cwbullet · Dec 23, 2012

I you think you were bit by a deer tick. I recommend a blood test. 10% do not get the rash or do no notice it.

blackjack2564 · Dec 23, 2012

yohimbe2 said:
Charge size, 2 grams. The shock cord was provided by LOC and I would estimate 12-15 feet of cord on both ends. (dont hold me to this, I havent measured)

Shear pins seem like a lot of hassle with these paper bodies. . Great idea, but I'm hoping to find a simpler solution.
I plan to take the top half out on my deck and toss it off with the chute packed to see how much shock caused a release. I imagine it takes a pretty good "hit" up there.

Thanks

From your description,I would first try a longer apogee cord. 25ft. Main is fine. You may be jolting the NC off by coming to the end of your shock cord during deploy. You can snug up the NC fit a bit with some tape. Should be able to grab the payload by the NC & give it some hard shakes. If the NC comes off, it is too loose.

Those would be the first things I would try & both are non invasive.
I have used 1/2 tape as "shear pins" also. 2 small pieces placed vertically on opposite sides of NC/payload joint. They will break from deploy. You can always ground test to be sure.

The above solutions are simple, quick & should keep you from further long walks.

Ps... do you have a vent in your payload tube? If not a 1/8 hole placed in the center will bleed off air pressure build up in the tube that may be contributing to the problem

5x7 · Dec 23, 2012

blackjack2564 said:
From your description,I would first try a longer apogee cord. 25ft. Main is fine. You may be jolting the NC off by coming to the end of your shock cord during deploy. You can snug up the NC fit a bit with some tape. Should be able to grab the payload by the NC & give it some hard shakes. If the NC comes off, it is too loose.

Those would be the first things I would try & both are non invasive.
I have used 1/2 tape as "shear pins" also. 2 small pieces placed vertically on opposite sides of NC/payload joint. They will break from deploy. You can always ground test to be sure.

The above solutions are simple, quick & should keep you from further long walks.

Ps... do you have a vent in your payload tube? If not a 1/8 hole placed in the center will bleed off air pressure build up in the tube that may be contributing to the problem

I agree with CJ. I had 12 flights on my magnum using long webbing, vent hole in the chute compartment and friction fit the NC with wide masking tape so it was very hard to pull off by hand. The tape fit had to be adjusted for winter /summer flying. I think I used a 2g charge also.

Johnhg7 · Dec 23, 2012

I work at a Boy Scout camp in the middle of Wisconsin and usually get 2 to 3 ticks a week. I have never had a problem with them, you just have to check yourself after being in a tick infested area. The rule of thumb is that it takes 48 hours from the tick bitting in to you to you contracting Lyme disease.

Handeman · Dec 23, 2012

cwbullet said:
I you think you were bit by a deer tick. I recommend a blood test. 10% do not get the rash or do no notice it.

I had Lyme disease once. Got the big red target, swelled up and very warm in the center. Doctor did a blood test and gave me the anti-biotics. The disease went away, but the blood test also came back negative. The Doctor told me he thought it probably would be negative because I had caught it so soon and there wasn't enough time for my body to develope antibodies yet.

New Ocean · Dec 23, 2012

yohimbe2 said:
Now, one thing that has always worried me about this hobby is ticks. I've had a few in my life but never a deer tick. Well, early deployment earned me my first scare with Lymes disease. I removed a fully engorged deer tick. Apparently 1/3 of these ticks are infected.

More like 1 in 10. Ive had Lyme disease two times, no big deal if you catch it. Look for ticks, remove them, and then look for the EM rash. If you remove a deer tick within the first 48 hours, go to the doctor for a powerful single prophylaxis dose. (Don't take this without a meal, I did it once then had to clean out a fish tank and almost lost it.)

yohimbe2 · Dec 24, 2012

New Ocean said:
More like 1 in 10. Ive had Lyme disease two times, no big deal if you catch it. Look for ticks, remove them, and then look for the EM rash. If you remove a deer tick within the first 48 hours, go to the doctor for a powerful single prophylaxis dose. (Don't take this without a meal, I did it once then had to clean out a fish tank and almost lost it.)

I didnt notice the tick until a few weeks later, No rash, but I might have missed it. (crotch, hard to see) How long does the rash last and when does it start?

I might be paranoid, but I am feeling odd aches in my hips and leg. I might see the doctor after xmas if it doesnt go away....

yohimbe2 · Dec 24, 2012

Handeman said:
I had Lyme disease once. Got the big red target, swelled up and very warm in the center. Doctor did a blood test and gave me the anti-biotics. The disease went away, but the blood test also came back negative. The Doctor told me he thought it probably would be negative because I had caught it so soon and there wasn't enough time for my body to develope antibodies yet.

Did you get the tick chasing the Grapeshot deep into the grass? Its funny, but I was thinking of ticks the whole time we chased that rocket........

SSenesy · Dec 24, 2012

yohimbe2 said:
I didnt notice the tick until a few weeks later, No rash, but I might have missed it. (crotch, hard to see) How long does the rash last and when does it start?

I might be paranoid, but I am feeling odd aches in my hips and leg. I might see the doctor after xmas if it doesnt go away....

My second time through, the rash started a few days after the tick was removed. I'm pretty sure it was on me less than a couple of days. My rash started small and expanded outward. If I remember right, it lasted at least a couple of weeks or so. I'm not sure if it goes away when the antibiotics start.

cwbullet · Dec 24, 2012

SSenesy said:
My second time through, the rash started a few days after the tick was removed. I'm pretty sure it was on me less than a couple of days. My rash started small and expanded outward. If I remember right, it lasted at least a couple of weeks or so. I'm not sure if it goes away when the antibiotics start.

That is correct, the rash gets stronger with each exposure (usually).

The rash can take 4-6 weeks to completely resolve, but it should stop enlarging and start lightening.

New Ocean · Dec 24, 2012

yohimbe2 said:
I didnt notice the tick until a few weeks later, No rash, but I might have missed it. (crotch, hard to see) How long does the rash last and when does it start?

I might be paranoid, but I am feeling odd aches in my hips and leg. I might see the doctor after xmas if it doesnt go away....

The joint aches are a late stage symptom, if you don't catch it moths or years later. The early symptoms are the EM rash (most cases, lasts for a few days and is pretty obvious) and flu symptoms. When I had it as a kid, I got so tired in the middle of the day that everyone thought I had Mono. Had a bright red circle behind my ear, never found the tick though. 2nd time was on my foot, removed tick early, still had red circle and the itch was unreal, like having poison ivy - but this is because I am now allergic to tick saliva after having a few dozen over the years. Like epoxy sensitivity.

Handeman · Dec 28, 2012

yohimbe2 said:
Did you get the tick chasing the Grapeshot deep into the grass? Its funny, but I was thinking of ticks the whole time we chased that rocket........

No, it was several year before that. I don't think I've ever gotten a tick bite while at BattlePark, not even the larger wood ticks.

The rash I got was on the outer side of my thigh. It was about 6 - 7 inches in diameter and the 3 - 4 inch center was swollen slightly and very warm to the touch, like a >102º fever.

MaxQ · Dec 28, 2012

Johnhg7 said:
I work at a Boy Scout camp in the middle of Wisconsin and usually get 2 to 3 ticks a week. I have never had a problem with them, you just have to check yourself after being in a tick infested area. The rule of thumb is that it takes 48 hours from the tick bitting in to you to you contracting Lyme disease.

I had ticks on me (firmly attached) six times last summer renovating my mother's house and wooded lot.
I removed all of them within 6-8 hours but had persistent red rashes at the tick bite and did a lot of research.

The 48 hour rule is related the tick feeding cycle - ie. when the tick is full it then disgorges part of its meal, releasing the nasty stuff in you.

So, I've heard that prior to 48 hours you can still be infected if you squeeze or pull on the tick to remove the tick (or use liquid or gels like dishwashing soap) it may disgorge contents...so the 48 hour rule may not be valid unless you know what you are doing when removing the little bastard.

Get a tick key......

https://www.tickkey.com/why_tickkey.html

garmtn · Dec 28, 2012

yohimbe2 said:
OK, to anyone that owns a LOC Magnum, I'd appreciate tips on how to keep the main chute in the tube until 2nd deployment. I've had two flights and both have had early deployment. My last flight on a K540 had a main chute pop at close to 4000 feet. Long story short---I walked and walked.

Now, one thing that has always worried me about this hobby is ticks. I've had a few in my life but never a deer tick. Well, early deployment earned me my first scare with Lymes disease. I removed a fully engorged deer tick. Apparently 1/3 of these ticks are infected.

Sorry to confuse with this unusual post. What is my point?

1. If you are a LOC Magnum user let me know what has worked for you with dual deploy. I am leaning towards shear pins but am curious to hear what others use.

2. Rocketry and ticks. Lets face it, we run around fields all across the county. What is the risk? Opinions/thoughts?

No target circles or rash so far-----fingers crossed.....My next trip will include my camping clothes soaked in tick repellant. (something I use for camping)

Go to "baddazzrocketry.com", under parts. What the video and see what u think. This device controlled by altimeter and won't fire main till altitude reached.:clap:

Coop · Dec 30, 2012

Ticks skeeve me out. I hate the things, and after traipsing around after wandering rockets, I typically give the kids --and myself-- a quick check. Thankfully, we've only had dog tics thus far, and no ill effects.

Later!

--Coop

LOC Magnum + Lymes Disease===A warning.

Help Support The Rocketry Forum:

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Crazy Jim's Gone Banana's

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Obsessed with Rocketry

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Obsessed with Rocketry

Crazy Jim's Gone Banana's

Well-Known Member

Active Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Obsessed with Rocketry

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Tripoli 2747

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Similar threads

Join the conversation!

Join today and get all the highlights of this community direct to your inbox. It's FREE!