SATIN PAINT FINISHING QUESTION

I'm finishing up my Binder Design JackHammer. Its a "military" looking rocket, so I looked far and wide for a glossy paint in the olive green color I wanted. All I could find was Satin.

My question is, can I apply a gloss clear cloat such as Rustoleum Crytal Clear over a Satin finish? Will it turn to a blotchy mess, or can the gloss clear produce a gloss finish over a Satin paint??

I'm pretty sure the answer is "no", but I wanted to check if anyone had done this before and how it turned out before I trashed all the careful work I've done. I haven't painted it yet, but I did check alot of different stores looking for the right shade of olive green in a gloss. I like my gloss, and I wanted to make sure the paint had some sort of clear coat to help protect it.

Thanks!

neond7 said:

I'm finishing up my Binder Design JackHammer. Its a "military" looking rocket, so I looked far and wide for a glossy paint in the olive green color I wanted. All I could find was Satin.

My question is, can I apply a gloss clear cloat such as Rustoleum Crytal Clear over a Satin finish? Will it turn to a blotchy mess, or can the gloss clear produce a gloss finish over a Satin paint??

I'm pretty sure the answer is "no", but I wanted to check if anyone had done this before and how it turned out before I trashed all the careful work I've done. I haven't painted it yet, but I did check alot of different stores looking for the right shade of olive green in a gloss. I like my gloss, and I wanted to make sure the paint had some sort of clear coat to help protect it.

Thanks!

Click to expand...

Hmmm... not to put too fine a point on it... but WHY would you want "olive drab" in a glossy finish?? It wouldn't be olive DRAB if it was glossy-- it'd be OLIVE GLOSS... LOL Seriously, military paint jobs (as well as "regular" paint jobs on large scale rockets like say NASA rockets) SHOULD be satin or flat... it simply makes them look bigger and more scale-like... thus more "realistic". Glossy paint jobs on such a rocket look out of place, because in the case of a large NASA rocket it would look unrealistic because it would imply that the rocket had a finish akin to a hand-polished double wax job, which they're anything but... Military missiles are flat paint jobs to minimize glare or reflections that would draw attention to them in a battlefield situation... camouflage does little good if a glint of sunlight off a shiny surface gives it away, flashing like a beacon...

IMHO you'll be much happier just shooting the satin finish on the thing and call it good... at least have a serious look at it before you apply any clearcoats. There shouldn't be any issues with applying a clear over a satin or even flat finish, (so long as you've followed the paint's instructions as to drying times before subsequent coats and such and ensured that they're compatible...) But for appearance's sake I think just the satin finish alone should actually look more realistic...

Course it's your rocket and you can finish it any way that you like...

Good luck with your project! OL JR

luke strawwalker said:

Hmmm... not to put too fine a point on it... but WHY would you want "olive drab" in a glossy finish?? It wouldn't be olive DRAB if it was glossy-- it'd be OLIVE GLOSS... LOL Seriously, military paint jobs (as well as "regular" paint jobs on large scale rockets like say NASA rockets) SHOULD be satin or flat... it simply makes them look bigger and more scale-like... thus more "realistic". Glossy paint jobs on such a rocket look out of place, because in the case of a large NASA rocket it would look unrealistic because it would imply that the rocket had a finish akin to a hand-polished double wax job, which they're anything but... Military missiles are flat paint jobs to minimize glare or reflections that would draw attention to them in a battlefield situation... camouflage does little good if a glint of sunlight off a shiny surface gives it away, flashing like a beacon...

IMHO you'll be much happier just shooting the satin finish on the thing and call it good... at least have a serious look at it before you apply any clearcoats. There shouldn't be any issues with applying a clear over a satin or even flat finish, (so long as you've followed the paint's instructions as to drying times before subsequent coats and such and ensured that they're compatible...) But for appearance's sake I think just the satin finish alone should actually look more realistic...

Course it's your rocket and you can finish it any way that you like...

Good luck with your project! OL JR

Click to expand...

Luke,
I guess I should have been more specific of "why" I wanted the clear coat - I like gloss, but in this case I was more worried about protecting the paint. The clear seals it in and will hopefully reduce nicks and scrapes along the way. I wonder if there are satin clear coats..... I'll have to check, I've never looked. But you are right, it will be more "realistic" in a satin or flat.

Thanks...

neond7 said:

I'm finishing up my Binder Design JackHammer. Its a "military" looking rocket, so I looked far and wide for a glossy paint in the olive green color I wanted. All I could find was Satin.

My question is, can I apply a gloss clear cloat such as Rustoleum Crytal Clear over a Satin finish? Will it turn to a blotchy mess, or can the gloss clear produce a gloss finish over a Satin paint??

I'm pretty sure the answer is "no", but I wanted to check if anyone had done this before and how it turned out before I trashed all the careful work I've done. I haven't painted it yet, but I did check alot of different stores looking for the right shade of olive green in a gloss. I like my gloss, and I wanted to make sure the paint had some sort of clear coat to help protect it.

Thanks!

Click to expand...

Maybe I can clear up a couple questions with one shot---yes you can spray clear gloss over a satin finish with no problem although it may take a couple of passes.As far as the satin/ flat /gloss realism argument goes, the best example I can give you is to look at a variety of pics of current and near current aircraft . Those that are painted flat ---from a distance --have a certain sheen. I call it scaleing down. Up close an f-18---15--sr-71 so on look very flat. from a distance --not so-- gloss paint is a whole other animal. In my experience to make a gloss surface look like scale gloss you have to polish it to an extreme sheen---way too troublesome for me---H

neond7 said:

Luke,
I guess I should have been more specific of "why" I wanted the clear coat - I like gloss, but in this case I was more worried about protecting the paint. The clear seals it in and will hopefully reduce nicks and scrapes along the way. I wonder if there are satin clear coats..... I'll have to check, I've never looked. But you are right, it will be more "realistic" in a satin or flat.

Thanks...

Click to expand...

Oh, ok... I dunno that clear really protects it all that much, but I guess it depends... it probably helps some...

later and good luck! OL JR

luke strawwalker said:

Oh, ok... I dunno that clear really protects it all that much, but I guess it depends... it probably helps some...

later and good luck! OL JR

Click to expand...

He has a good point !!! Clear--once dry--is very brittle---it will chip and usually take what ever is under it with it--that said it takes a good knock---I use it and don't have any real problems . I usually launch 3 or4 times and then they are hanger queens though !

hornet driver said:

He has a good point !!! Clear--once dry--is very brittle---it will chip and usually take what ever is under it with it--that said it takes a good knock---I use it and don't have any real problems . I usually launch 3 or4 times and then they are hanger queens though !

Click to expand...

Yep... a hard enough ding will do damage no matter what you do (unless you like building and flying anti-tank rounds, like the silly Estes Guardian that somebody fiberglassed in the Sport Rocketry awhile back... but that's patently rediculous IMHO).

Every chain has a weakest link... with enough force, SOMETHING is going to give... sorta like papering fins, CA hardening them, double glue joints, epoxy fillets, etc... I've built rockets that the fins and fin joints were SO strong that on a horizontal high speed impact with the ground, the tip of the fin was partially crushed and the fin was strong enough to resist further damage... the glue joint was SO strong that the fin couldn't break off the surface of the tube... so eventually the "weakest link" turned out to be the entire outer layer of the tube simply ripping off... glassine and about half the thickness of the tube... funny thing was, the paint was hardly damaged! About maybe a 1/8 inch wide "crack" or "chip" surrounding the torn-out bit of tube layers along the fillet edges... everything else was perfectly intact... even the paint on the back 3/4 of the fin that wasn't crushed in the initial impact!

The main advantage I see to clear is being able to clean the rocket up easier... wipe off sooting and dirt and other contamination... light scratching and stuff will happen to the clear and hopefully won't cut through into or completely through the color coat, with any luck... that allows easier fixes if the rocket gets a little 'dinged up' from minor stuff... but don't count on it protecting the finish from EVERYTHING... cause it ain't happening...

Flat and satin finishes are harder to clean up because the paint surface is, essentially, textured, or bumpy... soot and dirt and stains can get down between the hills and hummocks that make the paint surface textured and are far harder to remove... and in certain cases are easier to "soak into" the paint... glosses tend to be much smoother and uniform on the surface so there is less room for dirt or stains to "settle into" and hold on to the finish... and this more uniform surface is also usually less susceptible to stains "soaking in", depending on the materials and contaminants.

The other BIG issue with clears is YELLOWING. Various clears vary SUBSTANTIALLY in their ability to resist turning yellow after exposure to UV light, and vary in the intensity of the yellowing and the amount of exposure necessary to create yellowing. Micromeister has quite a bit of experience with this and can make specific recommendations far superior to mine in this regard... Depending on how long you hope this rocket will last and how objectionable you find a yellowing clearcoat finish to be, you might want to think twice about the clear... and choose carefully what materials you use and their susceptibility and degree of yellowing you can expect... because fixing age yellowing of clearcoats is a VERY difficult proposition, ESPECIALLY if the rocket has decals or complex paint patterns... it's akin to stripping everything and starting over, almost...

Good luck with your project! OL JR

I have been disappointed in any matte/satin clear that I have ever used with repect to durability and marring... I have yet to do it, but with a couple of military scale kits coming up, I'd like to try Future with talc to achieve a matte finish. Does anyone have experience with this? Proper proportions? Mixing technique? Etc.?

I would be more inclined to spray several coats of gloss clear and use an abrasive pad (white or grey) to achieve the satin finish. That way you would not be introducing more crap into the finish.

I don't use gloss clear. It is too hard/brittle. I use Future which has "more give" and is easy to strip when you need to do any repairs. I might play around with the buffing idea on Future.

mkadams001 said:

I would be more inclined to spray several coats of gloss clear and use an abrasive pad (white or grey) to achieve the satin finish. That way you would not be introducing more crap into the finish.

Click to expand...

I've used gloss clear over flats and satins without issues. Well no more issues then I'd normally have with paint lol.

I've also used matte clears for a more toned down look. Came in handy on a few projects back in my plastic modeling days and more recently on a downscaled Astron Spaceman which I didn't want too shiny.

The attached picture is the finished rocket with satin "Italian Olive" paint. I applied the decals yesterday. I'll wait another week for the Krylon paint to cure before I even think about clear coating it. I plan on using Krylon Acrylic clear, followed by a Rustoleum Enamel clear. The acrylic clear seems to provide a buffer and keep the enamel clear from creating bubbles in the paint. I've had good luck with that method the last 2x I've used it. Sometimes enamel clear on enamel paint can go funky......

Lacquer tends to be more brittle. Acrylic is more likely to maintain a level of flexability and Eurethanes more still. If you check the labeling it should inducate what level of UV protection can be offered. This will adress the yellowing. For enamels and Eurethanes I have added a bit of Zippo lighter fluid (couple drops per fluid oz.) as a flattening agent. Havn't tried it with acrylics yet. FWIW

stantonjtroy said:

Lacquer tends to be more brittle. Acrylic is more likely to maintain a level of flexability and Eurethanes more still. If you check the labeling it should inducate what level of UV protection can be offered. This will adress the yellowing. For enamels and Eurethanes I have added a bit of Zippo lighter fluid (couple drops per fluid oz.) as a flattening agent. Havn't tried it with acrylics yet. FWIW

Click to expand...

There is no lacquer on this rocket... I tried lacquer once and had the paint come off in sheets. The Krylon Acrylic clear states it provides UV protection and won't yellow. I'll be putting two layers of Rustoleum crystal clear enamel over it, though. I haven't seen any yellowing on the other two rockets I used with this method, but they haven't seen that much time in the sun yet. The Krylon Acrylic by itself isn't very glossy or smooth, thats why I use the Rustoleum over it. The Rustoleum turns into a glass smooth finish.... I'm no pro, but I was impressed with the results.....

I have great results using this from Micheals And 40% off coupon. It is an artwork based acrylic
So it won't "attack" most paints. I have used the matte to clear coat my flat painted rockets.
mainly to protect the decals.