Estes Super Alpha on an AT E or F 24mm?

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onesureshot

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I have an Estes Super Alpha kit that I am going to start pretty soon and was curious about going with a 24mm MMT instead of the 18mm. Would I need to do anything else to this kit to strengthen it to use an SU AT E or F motor? I figured there would have to be some weight added to the nose, but am curious if the rest of the rocket will be strong enough to withstand an E or F?

My launch area in a dry lake bed in the west Utah desert, so I have plenty of space to fly.
 
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It should work with quite a bit of nose weight. What I would do is order some 50H body tube from BMS. This will make for a strong engine mount. Also I would start out with an E18 reload first.

Epoxy on the fins would be good too.

Andrew
 
onesureshot said:
I have an Estes Super Alpha kit that I am going to start pretty sooner and was curious about going with a 24mm MMT instead of the 18mm. Would I need to do anything else to this kit to strengthen it to use an SU AT E or F motor? I figured there would have to be some weight added to the nose, but am curious if the rest of the rocket will be strong enough to withstand an E or F?

My launch area in a dry lake bed in the west Utah desert, so I have plenty of space to fly.
Click to expand...
I'd need to run some simulations to see how much noseweight is needed. I agree, a kit like this needs 24mm power. But I doubt I'd fly it on more than a medium E. The E9 will take it out of sight. You stand to lose it using much more than that, but a metallic streamer will help tracking and recovery.

Anyway, for a kit like this, I prefer to have adjustable noseweight. That way, you can take some out for flying on B and C motors, or add some for E and F motors.

Here's the setup I use on a few of my rockets. A #6 or #8 screw-eye and a few fender washers works great. Doug .

weight-p.jpg


.
 
I would paper the fins or switch to basswood fins. If you cut new basswood fins, I would also make them through-the-wall.
 
When I bought my Super Alpha kit a while back, it came with a wonderfully dense balsa nose cone.

I installed a 24mm motor mount and have launched it on D12 motors exclusively. Given the small size of the Super Alpha, any larger motors would send it out of sight.
 
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I built my early balsa NC kit pretty much stock except for fitting a Semroc baffle. It just about teleports to 1000 feet on an Aerotech D21 SU motor (18mm....from valuerockets.com). Pretty satisfying, really. D10 flights are nice, too.
 
Most Estes kits that are 24mm will handle any 24/40 RMS loads to F39T with little or no modification. Converting from 18mm to 24mm might require a little bit of nose weight, but I would be surprised if it actually needed any. Most Estes rockets are plenty stable to begin with. A quick mock up in VCP will give you the CP and you can decide from there.

The only mod I would recommend for a stock Estes to handle the 24mm E & F loads is to paper the balsa fins.

A pair of binoculars comes in very handy when flying these on composite motors.
 
I downloaded the trial version of Rock Sim and built the Super Alpha with the 24mm MMT. Playing with different engines, I found the Apogee E6-6 motor shows a flight to a tad over 2700 feet. Max velocity 378 FPS, 12.67 FPS downward velocity at chute deployment. Just over 12 seconds to apogee. It worked out as stable with no other mods.

I papered the fins and built the 24mm MMT today.

Anybody used one of these motors before? I was looking around and saw the note on Apogee's website about this motor:

Note: The E6 has lower thrust than the D12, so it should only be used in lightweight rockets with low drag.

It made me wonder about using it in the Super Alpha.
 
onesureshot said:
I downloaded the trial version of Rock Sim and built the Super Alpha with the 24mm MMT. Playing with different engines, I found the Apogee E6-6 motor shows a flight to a tad over 2700 feet. Max velocity 378 FPS, 12.67 FPS downward velocity at chute deployment. Just over 12 seconds to apogee. It worked out as stable with no other mods.

I papered the fins and built the 24mm MMT today.

Anybody used one of these motors before? I was looking around and saw the note on Apogee's website about this motor:

Note: The E6 has lower thrust than the D12, so it should only be used in lightweight rockets with low drag.

It made me wonder about using it in the Super Alpha.
Click to expand...

I've flown the E6 in a BT-55 rocket about the size of an Estes Eliminator for a good flight and a long walk.

I quick look at the thrust curves shows that the E6 has a higher peak thrust and sustained thrust than an Estes C6. My gut tells me it will work in a Super Alpha but I would probably launch on a calm day.
 
onesureshot said:
I downloaded the trial version of Rock Sim and built the Super Alpha with the 24mm MMT. Playing with different engines, I found the Apogee E6-6 motor shows a flight to a tad over 2700 feet. Max velocity 378 FPS, 12.67 FPS downward velocity at chute deployment. Just over 12 seconds to apogee. It worked out as stable with no other mods.

I papered the fins and built the 24mm MMT today.

Anybody used one of these motors before? I was looking around and saw the note on Apogee's website about this motor:

Note: The E6 has lower thrust than the D12, so it should only be used in lightweight rockets with low drag.

It made me wonder about using it in the Super Alpha.
Click to expand...

The last time I flew my Big Daddy was on an E6. The Big Daddy is a little heavy, but it flew fine.
 

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