Coronavirus: What questions do you have?

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jderimig said:
Different paper claimed that. this one is behind a paywall but I have access.
Abstract below. Bolded line is my addition.
Article has not been peer reviewed yet.

Uncanny similarity of unique inserts in the 2019-nCoV spike protein to HIV-1 gp120 and Gag
Prashant Pradhan, Ashutosh Kumar Pandey, Akhilesh Mishra, Parul Gupta, Praveen Kumar Tripathi, Manoj Balakrishnan Menon, James Gomes, Perumal Vivekanandan, Bishwajit Kundu
doi:
This article is a preprint and has not been certified by peer review [what does this mean?].
Abstract
We are currently witnessing a major epidemic caused by the 2019 novel coronavirus (2019-nCoV). The evolution of 2019-nCoV remains elusive. We found 4 insertions in the spike glycoprotein (S) which are unique to the 2019-nCoV and are not present in other coronaviruses. Importantly, amino acid residues in all the 4 inserts have identity or similarity to those in the HIV-1 gp120 or HIV-1 Gag. Interestingly, despite the inserts being discontinuous on the primary amino acid sequence, 3D-modelling of the 2019-nCoV suggests that they converge to constitute the receptor binding site. The finding of 4 unique inserts in the 2019-nCoV, all of which have identity /similarity to amino acid residues in key structural proteins of HIV-1 is unlikely to be fortuitous in nature. This work provides yet unknown insights on 2019-nCoV and sheds light on the evolution and pathogenicity of this virus with important implications for diagnosis of this virus.
Click to expand...

That paper got retracted quite quickly.
https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.01.30.927871v1.full.pdf

See also:
https://www.statnews.com/2020/02/03/retraction-faulty-coronavirus-paper-good-moment-for-science/

Preprints are tricky, especially for laypeople like us who are often unable to to spot even egregious example of junk science. Another example, that was posted a couple of weeks ago here (and retracted by the poster) was the one that implied Asian people are more susceptible to COVID-19.

Reinhard
 
NOLA_BAR said:
Maybe we should have done this already? Enact the Defense Production Act of 1950. Direct manufacturing of ventilation equipment, medical PPE, anti-viral drugs, medical staffing and training etc.

It just seems like we are always weeks behind this thing.

https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/videos/heal...wartime-law-coronavirus-masks-sot-vpx-ctn.cnn
Click to expand...

Yes, but this illness may be over before they get it spun up. We have exported too much of our essential productions. This is not a political statement. There is plenty of blame to spread around.
 
jderimig said:
Yes but the only difference between the retracted paper and the chinese paper that wasn't retracted is that the former had the audacity to suggest that mutation was not natural. I continue to believe that retraction was based on politics and not science.
Click to expand...

Political push back would hardly be surprising, given that claim and could have accelerated the retraction. This doesn't add merit to the claim. For that, I'd suggest going with: "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence".

Reinhard
 
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NOLA_BAR said:
Maybe we should have done this already? Enact the Defense Production Act of 1950. Direct manufacturing of ventilation equipment, medical PPE, anti-viral drugs, medical staffing and training etc.

It just seems like we are always weeks behind this thing.

https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/videos/heal...wartime-law-coronavirus-masks-sot-vpx-ctn.cnn
Click to expand...

We bought 5, full feature transport vents a year ago. It took 5 months to get them, then about another 4-6 weeks of training before all of our staff was comfortable to use them. We don't hire inexperienced people to our department either. 5 years minimal experience to even get your resume looked at, it takes most people 3-4 months in orientation before they are cut loose on their own. Manufacturing life support equipment takes time. It takes considerable time and experience to take care of patients in critical care areas of the hospital.

These are great steps to take now to prepare for the next pandemic, but won't help us now.
 
cwbullet said:
Yes, but this illness may be over before they get it spun up. We have exported too much of our essential productions. This is not a political statement. There is plenty of blame to spread around.
Click to expand...

Yes I understand. Grabbing at straws perhaps?
 
NateB said:
We bought 5, full feature transport vents a year ago. It took 5 months to get them, then about another 4-6 weeks of training before all of our staff was comfortable to use them. We don't hire inexperienced people to our department either. 5 years minimal experience to even get your resume looked at, it takes most people 3-4 months in orientation before they are cut loose on their own. Manufacturing life support equipment takes time. It takes considerable time and experience to take care of patients in critical care areas of the hospital.

These are great steps to take now to prepare for the next pandemic, but won't help us now.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the perspective. Can’t say I like what I’m hearing, but reality right now is not too rosy!
 
cwbullet said:
Pretty simple, Shed a virus = they produce and pass it others.
Click to expand...

Chuck,

Actually, I had to look "shedding" up, myself.

To me, the word is somewhat "counter-intuitive" for the average person . . .

I always thought of "shedding" in terms of a Dog or Cat shedding its fur, rather than releasing virus.

In my "layman's terms", I would have chosen the word "transmitting" over "shedding", but that's just me.

Dave F.
 
transmitting to me would mean from me to another person. shedding is just releasing to the environment. In this case, shedding makes more sense since it is just being released and not always to someone else.
 
Ez2cDave said:
Chuck,

Actually, I had to look "shedding" up, myself.

To me, the word is somewhat "counter-intuitive" for the average person . . .

I always thought of "shedding" in terms of a Dog or Cat shedding its fur, rather than releasing virus.

In my "layman's terms", I would have chosen the word "transmitting" over "shedding", but that's just me.

Dave F.
Click to expand...


I guess I knew that one because I saw that one episode of "House" when they locked down the entire hospital because there was a "shedder."
 
Ez2cDave said:
Chuck,

Actually, I had to look "shedding" up, myself.

To me, the word is somewhat "counter-intuitive" for the average person . . .

I always thought of "shedding" in terms of a Dog or Cat shedding its fur, rather than releasing virus.

In my "layman's terms", I would have chosen the word "transmitting" over "shedding", but that's just me.

Dave F.
Click to expand...
How about just "contagious"?
 
Ez2cDave said:
Chuck,

Actually, I had to look "shedding" up, myself.

To me, the word is somewhat "counter-intuitive" for the average person . . .

I always thought of "shedding" in terms of a Dog or Cat shedding its fur, rather than releasing virus.

In my "layman's terms", I would have chosen the word "transmitting" over "shedding", but that's just me.

Dave F.
Click to expand...

Transmitting takes two to tango. Shedding does not require sharing. Contagious would be closer but you can shed without being contagious. Why does it matter? If you shed, you might be contagious but you most likely will still test positive. It is complicated. We use the term shedding because I can measure that but I cannot measure "contagious".
 
Chuck,

Your thoughts ?

Dave F.

Two Generic Drugs Tested As Possible Treatment For Coronavirus
https://flagandcross.com/two-generic-drugs-tested-as-possible-treatment-for-coronavirus

March 19, 2020
By Michael Cantrell

In the race to try and contain the coronavirus that is running rampant across the country, two low-cost generic drugs are being tested to see whether or not they could serve as a potential treatment for the illness.

Hydroxychloroquine, a medication that is currently being tested in Australia, France, and China, has proven to be successful in suppressing the production and release of the proteins that cause inflammatory complications of other viral illnesses, which means there is potential for it to be useful against the coronavirus as well.

Here’s more on these drugs from Fox News:

“We’re trying to leverage the science to see if we can do something in addition to minimizing contacts,” Dr. Jakub Tolar, dean of the University of Minnesota Medical School and vice president for clinical affairs, told Reuters. “Results are likely in weeks, not months.”

The drug is being tested in a trial of 1,500 people led by University of Minnesota researchers, while two other trials studying the effect losartan has on the virus are also underway. Researchers believe losartan, which is used to treat hypertension and protect kidneys from damage due to diabetes, may be able to block an enzyme used by COVID-19 to bind to cells.

The trials are watching to see if the drug will reduce the risk of organ failure in COVID-19 patients, and whether it can limit the need for hospitalization, Reuters reported. In late 2019, the Food and Drug and Administration (FDA) announced several recalls for losartan over concerns that the tablets may contain small amounts of a cancer-causing ingredient.

While the majority of patients infected with COVID-19 suffer mild symptoms, individuals may experience fever, cough or shortness of breath. The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) said early data suggests that patients who are over 60 or who have underlying health issues are at the highest risk of death or serious complications.

A whopping total of 222,643 people from 151 different countries and territories have contracted the illness, which first exploded in Wuhan, China during the month of December. In the United States there are now over 9,415 cases confirmed. The death toll is around 150.

As of now there is no vaccine available to help fight against the coronavirus, though several different companies have been working around the clock to develop one, with human trials having stated in Washington state.
 
Ez2cDave said:
Chuck,

Your thoughts ?

Dave F.

Two Generic Drugs Tested As Possible Treatment For Coronavirus
https://flagandcross.com/two-generic-drugs-tested-as-possible-treatment-for-coronavirus

March 19, 2020
By Michael Cantrell

In the race to try and contain the coronavirus that is running rampant across the country, two low-cost generic drugs are being tested to see whether or not they could serve as a potential treatment for the illness.

Hydroxychloroquine, a medication that is currently being tested in Australia, France, and China, has proven to be successful in suppressing the production and release of the proteins that cause inflammatory complications of other viral illnesses, which means there is potential for it to be useful against the coronavirus as well.

Here’s more on these drugs from Fox News:

“We’re trying to leverage the science to see if we can do something in addition to minimizing contacts,” Dr. Jakub Tolar, dean of the University of Minnesota Medical School and vice president for clinical affairs, told Reuters. “Results are likely in weeks, not months.”

The drug is being tested in a trial of 1,500 people led by University of Minnesota researchers, while two other trials studying the effect losartan has on the virus are also underway. Researchers believe losartan, which is used to treat hypertension and protect kidneys from damage due to diabetes, may be able to block an enzyme used by COVID-19 to bind to cells.

The trials are watching to see if the drug will reduce the risk of organ failure in COVID-19 patients, and whether it can limit the need for hospitalization, Reuters reported. In late 2019, the Food and Drug and Administration (FDA) announced several recalls for losartan over concerns that the tablets may contain small amounts of a cancer-causing ingredient.

While the majority of patients infected with COVID-19 suffer mild symptoms, individuals may experience fever, cough or shortness of breath. The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) said early data suggests that patients who are over 60 or who have underlying health issues are at the highest risk of death or serious complications.

A whopping total of 222,643 people from 151 different countries and territories have contracted the illness, which first exploded in Wuhan, China during the month of December. In the United States there are now over 9,415 cases confirmed. The death toll is around 150.

As of now there is no vaccine available to help fight against the coronavirus, though several different companies have been working around the clock to develop one, with human trials having stated in Washington state.
Click to expand...

Not sure, but interesting. I can see why they think the might work. It might be most beneficial in the very ill. Hydroxycholoroquine can be rough stuff.
 
NOLA_BAR said:
Maybe we should have done this already? Enact the Defense Production Act of 1950. Direct manufacturing of ventilation equipment, medical PPE, anti-viral drugs, medical staffing and training etc.

It just seems like we are always weeks behind this thing.

https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/videos/heal...wartime-law-coronavirus-masks-sot-vpx-ctn.cnn
Click to expand...

They might be ready for next disaster. Really is not whether it should have already been done. It is really a question whether we as a country under 3-4 prior presidents should have allowed them to move manufacturing out of the country. The blame spans both executive and legislative branches.
 
It has been a very taxing week. We are enveloped in a full fledge hysteria. I have never experienced such a thing. Georgia has nearly 300 infections and 10 deaths. We are not testing as much. We have set up a number of drive through screening clinics. I am setting up my 3rd tomorrow. In our hospital, every rumor starts a panic yet we have yet to have a positive test. With 100 tests done, that is a very imprecise rifle. I would get thrown of the range for that score.
 
Saw a video on Facebook from a local doctor explaining how he can get plenty of test kits but that facilities are basically afraid to test because of the requirements (gowning, masks, gloves, etc) and the liability involved with exposing staff to the virus. Almost sounds like some doctors are afraid to see really how many cases there are, kind of what you’re saying Chuck about rumors starting a panic where actual numbers might really push things over the edge....

https://www.facebook.com/1196551321/posts/10222119464674404/?d=n


https://www.facebook.com/1196551321/posts/10222123354451646/?d=n
 
Chuck,

Your thoughts please ?

Dave F.

Anti-inflammatory drugs might not actually make COVID-19 worse

https://www.aol.com/article/lifesty...ht-not-actually-make-covid-19-worse/23952748/



Kat Eschner
Mar 17th 2020 10:25AM

NSAIDs like ibuprofen are used throughout the world to treat fever and pain. Physicians cast doubt that they influence our immune response to the coronavirus.

On Saturday, the French health minister, Olivier Véran, tweeted that taking anti-inflammatory drugs—even over-the-counter medications like ibuprofen, Advil, and Aleve—could worsen cases of COVID-19. “If you are already taking anti-inflammatory drugs or you have questions, ask your doctor for advice,” he tweeted in French. This advice, which was not backed by any peer-reviewed scientific paper or any other release of evidence, is raising eyebrows in the public health world.


dims


The class of drugs that Veran was calling out were, specifically, non-steroidal anti-inflammatories (NSAIDs), which are already more closely regulated in France than in most other countries, including the United States.

NSAIDs like ibuprofen are used throughout the world to treat fever and pain.The Guardian reports that a spokesperson from Toulouse hospital in France explained that anti-inflammatories can increase the risk of complications “when there is a fever or infection.” And the French ministry of health website reports “severe adverse events related to the use of... NSAIDs… in patients with COVID-19, possible or confirmed cases.”

Elsewhere in the world, however, health authorities are casting doubt on this stance for COVID-19 specifically. “I have no data to support this. I don’t know where he’s coming from,” says Carlos Del Rio, a physician and professor of public health and medicine at Emory University who is on the front lines of COVID-19 response.

Before he would be willing to consider the minister’s statement, Del Rio says, “I need to see a paper that shows that. It’s a pretty strong statement.” Some studies suggest that NSAIDS could impede a person’s immune response, but the degree to which that would influence the outcomes of people with COVID-19 hasn’t been studied or identified by any official studies or statements.

Muge Cevik, an infectious disease researcher at the University of St. Andrews in Scotland, echoed this concern on Twitter. “If French clinicians are observing a signal this should be communicated appropriately within a context,” she tweeted. “We need proper risk communication here.”

Statements like Véran’s draw attention from where it’s most needed, Del Rio says. “We need to shut down the country, and people need to take [social distancing] seriously. We’re not.” As for NSAIDs, he says, “show us the evidence. I would love to see the evidence.”

Meanwhile, the pandemic is unfolding. A new paper out today in Science suggests that people without symptoms are responsible for a significant portion of COVID-19’s spread. The CDC also released a new guideline suggesting cancelling all events with 50 people are more. Canada also just implemented travel bans aimed at slowing the spread of the disease.
 
Ez2cDave said:
Meanwhile, the pandemic is unfolding. A new paper out today in Science suggests that people without symptoms are responsible for a significant portion of COVID-19’s spread.
Click to expand...
I tried to bring this up in an earlier post but was quickly shut down. In in my mind this is the most important point. It seems like to deal with this you have to, 1) enact shelter in place laws until tests are available in volume (many 10s or 100s of millions), 2) test everyone over a short period of time (week to 10 days), 3) quarantine and treat those that test positive until shedding period has passed for all, and then, finally 4) retract shelter in place law.

Can the above happen in the U.S.?, highly unlikely. Seems like the independent spirit of Americans may be a detriment in a crisis. Self-sacrifice and following orders don't seem to be our strong suit.
 
Last edited:
cwbullet said:
It has been a very taxing week. We are enveloped in a full fledge hysteria. I have never experienced such a thing. Georgia has nearly 300 infections and 10 deaths. We are not testing as much. We have set up a number of drive through screening clinics. I am setting up my 3rd tomorrow. In our hospital, every rumor starts a panic yet we have yet to have a positive test. With 100 tests done, that is a very imprecise rifle. I would get thrown of the range for that score.
Click to expand...

It’s not often I say this without tongue in cheek, but now is one of those times: you are doing God’s work. Thank you for your service under these incredibly difficult circumstances.
 
Interesting Data from the Diamond Princess cruise ship. A ship that was quarantined with 3711 passengers, essentially making it a closed COVID-19 study.
"As of February 20, tests of most of the 3,711 people aboard the Diamond Princess confirmed that 634, or 17 percent, had the virus; 328 of them did not have symptoms at the time of diagnosis. Of those with symptoms, the fatality ratio was 1.9 percent, Russell and colleagues calculate. Of all infected, that ratio was 0.91 percent. Those 70 and older were most vulnerable, with an overall fatality ratio of about 7.3 percent."
https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.03.05.20031773v2.full.pdf
 
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