Chute attachment question.

I'm building the Apogee Zephyr for my L1 flight.
I have it just about assembled but want to be sure I'm positioning the chute in the best spot possible.
The kit instructions have the shroud lines attached directly to the nose cone.
I've seen several examples showing the chute attached further down the shock cord.
I'd appreciate some advice.

I'm right at that point in final assembly and wonder the same thing. I would think that a "bridle" cord that allows the nosecone some space below the canopy would help to avoid tangle and smoother airflow for the 'chute... I see people using a clip and swivel, so was planning to use those to attach the shroud lines to the nosecone. Would be very interested to hear some informed guidance too.

I'm gonna use a clip and swivel also.
I don't plan on following the instructions about attaching to nose cone. I'm not sure how far down though. I'm sure we'll get our answer. This group has been real helpful.

you can do either, myself I like them from 6" to about 2' down from the NC. I alsooo use a third loop on most of my harness. The larger the model, the further down they go. I have not built aZephyr, but you might want to post pics of your clip, just to make sure that it is up to the task.

David Schwantz said:

I alsooo use a third loop on most of my harness.

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What's the third loop for? I'm using the hardware linked below:
https://www.apogeerockets.com/Build...ery_Equipment/Swivels/200_Ball_Bearing_Swivel
https://www.apogeerockets.com/Build...covery_Equipment/Quick_Links/1_8in_Quick_Link

Loops on oth eends for attachment to NC and rocket body. 3rd one for drogue or main chute attachment. Keeps it in place on shock cord, also to keep flame proof bbblanket from sliding up and fouling chute.

Oh I see what you mean.

Dougla2 said:

Would be very interested to hear some informed guidance too.

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I just noticed your profile pic! I'd be in there WAY to much if I lived close enough. Is it a blessing or a curse?

Cmac said:

I just noticed your profile pic! I'd be in there WAY to much if I lived close enough. Is it a blessing or a curse?

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Just visited Apogee the one time so far but will be back again before first launch. They have a large inventory and I thought the pricing is good because I'll be able to avoid shipping fees and and can actually handle many of the models that I am interested in building. They are on the north end of Colorado Springs, not far from a nice place to go for a walk, the Garden of the Gods. I could set up direct deposit at Apogee to cover the kits I'd like to have but the wife has put limits on my enthusiasm. So, are you going to attach the chute to the nosecone? The shroud lines won't fit thru a swivel eye, so some sort of attachment rig is needed for that. I like the idea of simple so may just tie the lines to the nose and call it good. I have some time to mull it over as the weather is still too cold for this guy to stand in an open field and trudge across the tundra for recovery.

I generally, will make a loop (a bight is the proper term) in my shock cord, where i want the blanket to be positioned. I will then pass this loop thru the slit in the blanket. I will then pull the blanket thru the loop, and pull the shock cord tight. This is a larks head knot (or 'cow hitch knot'). Quick to make, quick to untie, relatively!

The only really issue I have with this method, is that larger shock cords tend to rip the slit as tension on the shock cord will turn the larks head knot from the shock cord to the blanket. I will soon be using a length of para-cord or Kevlar (or shoestring or...) to make about a 6" loop tied thru the slit int eh blanket, then make the larks head knot on this..

Another method is to make a butterfly knot in the shock cord a the desired attachment pint, and attach the blanket either by a larks head knot or a quick link or ...

I'm not a fan of adding more bits such as quick links & such. Adds weigh, and another "thing' that can rattle around and cause damage as things flap around.. it's not structural or has a massive amount of force or weight on it..

https://www.netknots.com/rope_knots/butterfly-knot
https://www.netknots.com/rope_knots/artillerymans-loop-knot
https://www.netknots.com/rope_knots/farmers-loop

David Schwantz said:

Loops...

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From poking around, it seems like there are two accepted methods for making loops in kevlar. Either making overhand knots or something called a box stitch.
I don't like the looks of making a knot and I don't own a sewing machine. Would making a loop using 2 part epoxy be an unwise (stupid) idea?

Do NOT use glue. it will not hold. Although I do sew mine, making a knot does work well. if you want, ou can send me your harness with everything marked out and I can sew it for you.

Dougla2 said:

The shroud lines won't fit thru a swivel eye

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It was a tight fit but I did get the shroud lines to fit through their #220 swivel. The #275 would be no problem.
So I'll be following advice and attaching 1/3rd down from the nosecone.
I guess life is all a trade-off. You live close to Apogee Components and I didn't see a single flurry of snow this year. I do LOVE Colorado though. I spent the winter of 94/95 ski bumming in Steamboat Springs.

David Schwantz said:

Do NOT use glue. it will not hold. Although I do sew mine, making a knot does work well. if you want, ou can send me your harness with everything marked out and I can sew it for you.

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I figured as much.
Your offer is very generous... thank you!!
I know a seamstress that can do it for me if I decide not to use knots.

Try to get a video of how well it deploys and I'll do the same with the "factory method". Just sewed the strap to the nosecone, so apparently made a decision. Not difficult to sew it as I have zero sewing skills, just picked up some big needles and heavy thread at the hobby store and went for it.

https://www.animatedknots.com/alpine-butterfly-loop-knot a few feet down on large rockets. Maybe a 1-2' down on L1 sized rockets.

Dougla2 said:

Try to get a video of how well it deploys

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Will do. I dropped ours of to a local I'm acquainted with. My wife has been talking about learning some sewing basics so she can keep up with our boy's worn out knees and pant cuffs. Now that I have an ulterior motive, I'll get her a sewing machine.

richP said:

https://www.animatedknots.com/alpine-butterfly-loop-knot a few feet down on large rockets. Maybe a 1-2' down on L1 sized rockets.

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I like it!! If I wasn't using flat cordage I would totally do that. Thanks!