Care for some scotch?

I know it's been done before and will undoubtedly be done again, but I have taken to the notion to build a rocket from the cardboard tubes that bottles of scotch come in; I call it "A Wee Dram". In my case, my preferred brand is Speyburn, a 10 year old single malt. Of course, I like to go a bit crazy with complexity and I took some inspiration from this thread: https://www.rocketryforum.com/threa...dwich-build-thread.157146/page-2#post-1965881

Instead of ice cream, I will be flying 9 fl.oz of scotch plus JL Altimeter3 and an 808 camera in the forward 1/3 of the rocket. In the business end, I have a cluster of four 24mm mounts that will initially take Aerotech E15-7s. I have a three-disk baffle system I'm going to use, and a re-purposed 42" umbrella for the parachute. Given that this is a mid-power rocket (I could go for a complex H by using F44s, but I don't have my cert yet lol), I don't expect to break any speed or altitude records with it, but I would like to get my booze over 1000ft.

The nose is a plastic Easter egg top filled with expanding construction foam; all centering rings, baffle disks, bulkheads, and fins are made from 1/8" basswood.


*The Silly Putty egg and Warheads candy tube is for another project on the back burner


Seen here is the four-barrel carb...er...something. Also, I didn't have any bigger kevlar cord handy, so I braided this leader to hold up against the ejection heat which will then be connected to the main paracord shock cord.


Dry fit of the nose, payload bay, and body tubes. Still need to attach the fins, rail guides, and install the motor mount assembly and baffle disks.

Very fun!

What are your couplers?

Nytrunner said:

What are your couplers?

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The couplers are extremely high-tech and at the peak of materials science, let me tell ya.

They're the front of a Chex cereal box (printed side facing inward) rolled into a cylinder and slathered with wood glue. I just eyeballed the length, but I figure I have about 1.25 calibers worth of length for both ends for the main body coupler. As for the payload bay and separation point, it's the same thing with the cereal box, but layers of masking tape to make it fit snug into the body and foam packing material behind the bulkhead to keep the cereal box from collapsing inward. I'll post more pictures later on to better showcase the internal details.

Okay, I have a few updates, minor changes and some questions.
First, I have decided to maximize the speed and altitude I can squeeze out of this design by going for a mix of two E15-7W and two E30-7T (with ejection charges removed since the total ignition to ejection time on the E30s is actually shorter than for the E15s, and openrocket keeps showing the ejection happening before apogee if the E30s eject) motors and by reducing the payload to 6fl.oz of scotch. The reduction of the payload is actually due to size limitations in the payload bay for the containers I have selected to hold the scotch, but the reduced weight will only serve to allow for more altitude and speed. In addition, I am going to shelve the baffle idea in favor of a nomex blanket for the parachute because of weight as well as uneven diameter issues with the high-tech Chex cereal box coupler.

My next concern is unexpected separation. Given the mass of the payload, even with a low drag body and airfoil fins, there is a chance that the momentum of the payload section could allow for a drag separation prior to ejection. With that in mind, should I consider adding shear pins? If so, how many? I've never used them before, and I don't know if the ejection force of the two E15s will be enough to break them properly. On a similar note, I am also worried about the mass of the payload pushing the nose cone off the payload bay, so I am considering adding wooden dowel pins to run through the top of the body tube through the masking tape and foam shoulder of the nose. Is that a decent system or has anyone solved this problem differently in a way I might not be considering?

For anyone who might want to play around with my design, I'll attach the Openrocket file.

When you start mucking with sheer pins and drag separation, you'll need to start ground testing.

If need be, you could add the extra powder from the E30s to the E15s

Nytrunner said:

If need be, you could add the extra powder from the E30s to the E15s

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Now that's a mighty novel idea! I might just wrap a tighter shoulder on the payload bay and go for the stronger ejection charges. Thanks!

This is a really cool project, on which I am about to be big party pooper.

Technically, you are launching a flammable payload. This may be frowned upon at a NAR or Tripoli sanctioned launch.

I can see it now... the new product from FlaskKits!

BABAR said:

This is a really cool project, on which I am about to be big party pooper.

Technically, you are launching a flammable payload. This may be frowned upon at a NAR or Tripoli sanctioned launch.

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There is an exception to the Hazardous Materials Regulations of the USDOT/PHMSA for the transportation in commerce of alcoholic beverages found at 49 CFR 173.150(d).

It seems plausible that anything less than 50% ABV ( 100 proof ) could be tolerated via similar interpretation.

EDIT: The International Fire Code and International Building Code contain similar exceptions.

dhbarr said:

There is an exception to the Hazardous Materials Regulations of the USDOT/PHMSA for the transportation in commerce of alcoholic beverages found at 49 CFR 173.150(d).

It seems plausible that anything less than 50% ABV ( 100 proof ) could be tolerated via similar interpretation.

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True. Most likely you will have a great flight followed by a well deserved toast......er......aperitif.

On the other hand, if you do run into fecal turbine interaction, it may be spectacular! Let’s hope not.

Beer has been launched in previous cases too. Admittedly it is significantly less reactive under....thermal excitation

I do like me some strong scotch, but this isn't cask strength spirit. Speyburn is one of the stronger malts on the shelf, but it's 43% alc/vol so that should be acceptable. I'll do my homework though, and contact the club officials and ask for their official ruling on the matter, but I get the feeling they'll let me fly it. Worst case scenario, I'll have a fancy payloader tribute to scotch to fly bubblegum or whatever else in.

I'm sure they'll let you fly if you promise to share... (I know I would...)

Fun project!!

ebruce1361 said:

My next concern is unexpected separation. Given the mass of the payload, even with a low drag body and airfoil fins, there is a chance that the momentum of the payload section could allow for a drag separation prior to ejection. With that in mind, should I consider adding shear pins? If so, how many? I've never used them before, and I don't know if the ejection force of the two E15s will be enough to break them properly. On a similar note, I am also worried about the mass of the payload pushing the nose cone off the payload bay, so I am considering adding wooden dowel pins to run through the top of the body tube through the masking tape and foam shoulder of the nose. Is that a decent system or has anyone solved this problem differently in a way I might not be considering?

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Simple cellophane tape strips work quite well as an alternative to shear pins. I take a inch or so of scotch tape, tear it in half lengthwise, and put a strip on each side of the rocket over the joint.

While I make whiskey, I don't use the tube packaging. :-( I've offered the plastic kegs I use (for cider) for rocketry use, but no one's taken me up on it.

Charles_McG said:

Simple cellophane tape strips work quite well as an alternative to shear pins. I take a inch or so of scotch tape, tear it in half lengthwise, and put a strip on each side of the rocket over the joint.

While I make whiskey, I don't use the tube packaging. :-( I've offered the plastic kegs I use (for cider) for rocketry use, but no one's taken me up on it.

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Would that be your Brown Dog Whiskey? Sounds delicious.

Greg Furtman said:

Would that be your Brown Dog Whiskey? Sounds delicious.

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Wow, you're way north to make a Bong run. I know I've got placement in Eau Claire. I think that's the closest.

I did a distributor show up at Chateau St. Croix Winery once. That was a long time ago.

Charles_McG said:

Wow, you're way north to make a Bong run. I know I've got placement in Eau Claire. I think that's the closest.

I did a distributor show up at Chateau St. Croix Winery once. That was a long time ago.

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Well the First Nations Launch Competition which is put on by the Wisconsin Space Grant Consortium at Carthage College is held at Bong every year. I fly at the the Grantsburg Airport with WWAR when I fly HPR. https://www.wwarocketry.com/

Charles_McG said:

Simple cellophane tape strips work quite well as an alternative to shear pins. I take a inch or so of scotch tape, tear it in half lengthwise, and put a strip on each side of the rocket over the joint.

While I make whiskey, I don't use the tube packaging. :-( I've offered the plastic kegs I use (for cider) for rocketry use, but no one's taken me up on it.

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I didn't even think about simple tape. Not a bad idea! I will have to figure out how to do so without risking tearing off the label wrap on the tubes, but that shouldn't be too difficult to figure out.

As for using your cider kegs, why not make your own rocket with them? It would be a cool way to promote your product!

ebruce1361 said:

I didn't even think about simple tape. Not a bad idea! I will have to figure out how to do so without risking tearing off the label wrap on the tubes, but that shouldn't be too difficult to figure out.

As for using your cider kegs, why not make your own rocket with them? It would be a cool way to promote your product!

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If you can tolerate a couple glossy spots, you might make little ‘pads’ of clear, high tack packing tape - and put the scotch tape strips on those. So the scotch tape lifts before the permanent packing tape.

And I might loft my own keg some day. For now, I’m still practicing the arts of scale sounding rockets and staging.

Those are some beautiful rockets! I hope to start dabbling in electronic airstarts by this time next year.

As for the glossy pads, I actually had a thought after typing my last comment to "paint" the top 3/4 inch of the body tube and similarly the bottom of the payload section with clear nail polish or even brush on some clear Loctite epoxy for the tape to grab. I've tried the packing tape idea on another rocket as a place to attach an 808 camera with electrical tape that wouldn't peel up the paint, and it looked good for a while, but it ended up with tiny wrinkles and foggy spots under it after a few months. I wonder if the Florida humidity worked its way through the tube and paint and ended up botching the tape.

Also, I just realized the appropriate nature of using Scotch brand cellophane tape on a scotch themed rocket carrying scotch. It's like it was meant to be.

ebruce1361 said:

Those are some beautiful rockets! I hope to start dabbling in electronic airstarts by this time next year.

As for the glossy pads, I actually had a thought after typing my last comment to "paint" the top 3/4 inch of the body tube and similarly the bottom of the payload section with clear nail polish or even brush on some clear Loctite epoxy for the tape to grab. I've tried the packing tape idea on another rocket as a place to attach an 808 camera with electrical tape that wouldn't peel up the paint, and it looked good for a while, but it ended up with tiny wrinkles and foggy spots under it after a few months. I wonder if the Florida humidity worked its way through the tube and paint and ended up botching the tape.

Also, I just realized the appropriate nature of using Scotch brand cellophane tape on a scotch themed rocket carrying scotch. It's like it was meant to be.

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ebruce, are you planning on clear coating the Speyburn containers to weather seal them? I think that it would make them more durable in the long run and the Scotch tape probably wouldn't stick to it. Krylon, Rustoleum, and a few others make a clear coat in a spray can. I'd test it out on a seperate Speyburn container before trying it on your "bottle" rocket.

I hadn't thought about giving the whole rocket a clearcoat since I'm not painting anything other than the nose and fins, but that is certainly worth considering. I have had clearcoat peel off from electrical tape holding cameras on in the past, so if I do coat the whole thing, I'll put on the nail polish or clear epoxy first and mask it off so the scotch tape sticks to just that.

ebruce1361 said:

I didn't even think about simple tape. Not a bad idea! I will have to figure out how to do so without risking tearing off the label wrap on the tubes, but that shouldn't be too difficult to figure out.!

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Simple. Put down a circumferential base layer of SCOTCH tape over both surfaces. (I do this with the protruding end of my engine mounts as well.). Then put your tape on for whatever purpose (shear pin replacement, or in my case motor retention). When you peel it off, comes off easily leaving your original tape behind.

I made some more progress in the last few days. I went out and purchased a small belt sander so I could get a good airfoil edge to the fins, and have since papered them and applied primer.


While those are waiting for sanding and some gold paint, I proceeded with work on the recovery setup. I know I keep changing my mind on the parachute protection, but I settled on a cross between a piston and a deployment bag in the form of a plastic cup. A piston cup if you will. It's an empty bottle of vitamins with the top ⅕ cut off. A braided kevlar lead runs through the bottle and connects the first kevlar lead on the motor mount to the rest of the shock cord. The shock cord is coiled into the bottom of the bottle, then the parachute is inserted. The bottom of the bottle is protected by two (may add more if the mood strikes me) layers of nomex. When the ejection charges fire, the bottle behaves like the plastic wadding in a shotgun shell, except it doesn't open up upon exiting the body tube. (Although, that sounds like a fun thing to make; I might build something like that for a future rocket)

I think the cup piston should work great!

I thought you might consider putting some graphite powder around the cup to smooth the exit pathway, but I looked it up and while in bulk form it is not flammable, when mixed with air it is. So bad idea.

https://cameochemicals.noaa.gov/chemical/25027

Good to know!

As it turns out, the vitamin bottle is about four or five millimeters narrower than the body internal diameter, and I sanded down the cut edge to a nice round one, so I'm not too concerned about a smooth exit. It's too long and just wide enough that it's impossible to get it to twist and bind on the way out. Still, I might get silly and wrap the whole bottle in teflon thread tape.

One thing I AM a bit worried about as far as deployment binds is my camera mount setup. I want to attach two cameras to this rocket so I can watch the whole flight looking down at the ground and also monitor the parachute during and after deployment. For the parachute view, that can be done with a small as-see-on-tv Cop Cam or this: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07GRRLCYS/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 (I have both types plus two 808 cameras) mounted in the packing foam at the base of the payload bay or just an 808 camera mounted to the side of the payload bay. As for the descent view, that camera would have to be mounted to the main body (unless I put two 808 cameras on the payload bay, one facing up and the other facing down, but then the ascent would be seen from one camera and the descent from the other, and I'd prefer have one video of the ground and one video of just the parachute). The reason I am concerned about the deployment when it comes to the cameras is I don't want to use tape to attach the cameras since that runs the risk of tearing the label wrap on the tubes. Rather, I'm thinking of drilling four holes in the body to accommodate thin zip-ties that will go through the key ring hole on the 808 camera, and wrap around it. (See ultra fancy low-res MS Paint diagram below)


This way, I don't have to worry as much about the damage tape might do to the label, and the holes double as vents to mitigate pressure separation, but it also means the zip ties will pass into the body tube. I intend to minimize the intrusion by having the actual locking piece of the zip-ties (I'm sure there's a name for that thing) on the outside of the body, but that still leaves me with something for the vitamin bottle to snag on. That is, if I decide to mount the camera(s) further forward than the bottle rests. I suppose I could attach it further down where the edge of the bottle is already ahead of the zip-ties even at its lowest point in the body, but that's an increase in weight in the tail...as well as an increase in drag.

Maybe what I need to do is sim various positions for the camera(s) in openrocket using a short but thick fin to get an idea what they will do to the CG and CP.

Something that may be easier (test it on a practice piece before trying it on your rocket. Make sure the underlying label looks good through the tape.

Put a wrap of clear packing tape around the rocket where you want to tape the camera. You can then easily put additional tape over this and remove it without any damage to your label.

That is indeed a proven method. I did that with the first rocket I flew a camera on, but I must have used some crap grade packing tape because it started to bubble and wrinkle around the edges, turning it into more of an eyesore than peeled paint would have been. Still, it's worth looking into for A Wee Dram. I do have an additional tube sitting around, so maybe I should use thst as a materials guinea pig.