Build thread: 5.3:1 sport scale Super Deluxe #2 Skywriter XL Premium Pro Max - Limited Edition

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jqavins said:
The question is mainly to Neil: in light of the "poor" initial coating, and your comment that it would take multiple coats for your purpose, do you suppose that somewhere from one to three(ish) coats would achieve mine?
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I'm gonna go with "maybe". I think I could only tell if I try doing it myself, which I'll do if I can find some suitably silvery metal to paint. But my total experience with this paint is literally what I wrote above, so more questions than answers at this point.

The big challenge with all this brushwork is to get even coating with no visible brushstrokes. I have not come even within shouting range of mastering this. On the eraser portion of this rocket, I got decent result by applying many coats with lots of sanding in between. Whether the same technique would work with this paint is uncertain.
 
MASKING THE NOSE

Decided to try to mask the nose, even though it's going to be a while before I'm able to paint it. I believe the Tamiya tape on top of the CA surface should be safe to leave in place for a while.

Now, how to do it? I had an assortment of not-very-well organized ideas in my head. Chose the one that seemed best and went at it.

foreach facet (1..6) begin
  1. Trace facet onto a little piece of paper, and label it! Tough to be very precise here, but I was able to get reasonably close.
    Nose masking-1.jpg
  2. Lay down some Tamiya tape onto a clean cutting surface. First chance to use my new 15mm tape; still needed two pieces to cover one facet.
  3. Trace outline of little piece of paper onto tape.
    Nose masking-2.jpg
  4. Cut on the line, remembering that the piece I'm going to use is the one hanging off the edge.
    Nose masking-3.jpg
  5. Apply to nose
end
​
Result:
Nose mask.GIF


Of course, I'll mask the rest of the point before painting. Oh how insanely badly I want to run outside and paint this right now. Will have to wait. :(
 
Very nice, and I like the animated gif! I bet that the Tamiya tape would be fine, but if you do get any creep under the tape, it should be relatively easy to clean off the CA, and you don't have to worry about damaging the paint underneath, since it is wood grain anyway.
 
neil_w said:
MASKING THE NOSE

Decided to try to mask the nose, even though it's going to be a while before I'm able to paint it. I believe the Tamiya tape on top of the CA surface should be safe to leave in place for a while.

Now, how to do it? I had an assortment of not-very-well organized ideas in my head. Chose the one that seemed best and went at it.

foreach facet (1..6) begin
  1. Trace facet onto a little piece of paper, and label it! Tough to be very precise here, but I was able to get reasonably close.
    View attachment 405485
  2. Lay down some Tamiya tape onto a clean cutting surface. First chance to use my new 15mm tape; still needed two pieces to cover one facet.
  3. Trace outline of little piece of paper onto tape.
    View attachment 405486
  4. Cut on the line, remembering that the piece I'm going to use is the one hanging off the edge.
    View attachment 405484
  5. Apply to nose
end​
Result:
View attachment 405487


Of course, I'll mask the rest of the point before painting. Oh how insanely badly I want to run outside and paint this right now. Will have to wait. :(
Click to expand...

Doubt this would work since you haven't primed yet and can't prime over the forward wood grain anyway..... but....

Would a couple of clear coats over the tape and faucets seal the tape edges and prevent runs under the tape? Or would this compromise the facet surfaces for later painting?
 
BABAR said:
Would a couple of clear coats over the tape and faucets seal the tape edges and prevent runs under the tape? Or would this compromise the facet surfaces for later painting?
Click to expand...
I might indeed do this.

In fact, now that you mention it, I could do it today....
 
May want to do a test run on a piece of CA treated wood. It is possible the CLEAR might mar the finish on the CA treated wood almost as much as a creep of primer or color.
 
BABAR said:
May want to do a test run on a piece of CA treated wood. It is possible the CLEAR might mar the finish on the CA treated wood almost as much as a creep of primer or color.
Click to expand...
I found an excellent piece to do a test run:
Nose clear.jpg

Looks good, and sure *seems* like the tape is sealed up. And I feel like I took at least a small advantage of the 60 degree weather today.

Now comes the interminable wait for real painting weather.

[GIF was too big to post... gonna have to work on that]
 
I apologize but this thread is in stasis right now, until some good painting weather comes around (actually all I need first is simply *priming* weather, which is a heck of a lot more forgiving). Nothing likely this week.

Debating whether to start up another build thread, or wait until this one is properly finished. I don't think I've ever had two going at the same time.
 
Same boat waiting for the Patriot to dry and maybe get another decent patch of weather.

In the mean time I'll either do normal human things or start building a little competition model that doesn't need paint anyway
 
Weather is the main reason my Level 1 build is on pause. Winter in the Midwest doesn't allow for outdoor work of most kinds. I have my level one and 2 Estes kits just sitting around. I sand and fill from time to time to keep it feeling like I'm making progress.
 
Awesome!

I wonder if a person was to build a spinning launch pad... if you could then get away without having any fins?
 
lakeroadster said:
Awesome!

I wonder if a person was to build a spinning launch pad... if you could then get away without having any fins?
Click to expand...

When I build new arrows I test them with no vanes or feathers. That is the best way to get them matched to the bow. My point, I am sure would figure out something....
 
There are easier ways to make a finless rocket spin. Use two or motors, canted tangentially rather than (or in addition to) laterally. That is, for example, take a regular two motor cluster mount, with the MMTs in the centering rings, and then twist the rings relative to one another before gluing. It only takes a few degrees of twist to get a very substantial spinning moment.

I have one built this way, intended to be launched from a tube. I haven't yet got the guts to launch it, because I have serious doubts that it could be stable. On one hand, the gyro effect will reduce the perturbations caused by wind or other factors by effectively increasing its inertia, but it doesn't provide a restoring force against such perturbation the way fins do, so this won't work. On the other hand, bullets are stabilized this way and are indeed stable, so it will work.

One of these days I'll find a big field with no one around and I'll give it a shot.
 
jqavins said:
There are easier ways to make a finless rocket spin. Use two or motors, canted tangentially rather than (or in addition to) laterally. That is, for example, take a regular two motor cluster mount, with the MMTs in the centering rings, and then twist the rings relative to one another before gluing. It only takes a few degrees of twist to get a very substantial spinning moment.

I have one built this way, intended to be launched from a tube. I haven't yet got the guts to launch it, because I have serious doubts that it could be stable. On one hand, the gyro effect will reduce the perturbations caused by wind or other factors by effectively increasing its inertia, but it doesn't provide a restoring force against such perturbation the way fins do, so this won't work. On the other hand, bullets are stabilized this way and are indeed stable, so it will work.

One of these days I'll find a big field with no one around and I'll give it a shot.
Click to expand...
1 Challenge is essentially you need a launch lug to run right up the dead center of the rocket. So the rocket can achieve rotational Velocity prior to leaving the stabilization of your launch equipment.
 
I saw a video of a tube launching project. The igniter was mounted on almost a bushing or commutator deal with two spinning metal bands on the outside. The leads touched against the spinning bands
 
BABAR said:
1 Challenge is essentially you need a launch lug to run right up the dead center of the rocket. So the rocket can achieve rotational Velocity prior to leaving the stabilization of your launch equipment.
Click to expand...
That's why, as I wrote, it's designed for tube launching. Mine will be a lot simpler than what Nytrunner saw, just a piece of pipe the right size and a couple of sticks that stand it and the rocket together off the ground be enough for the igniter and wires. If I ever get up the courage to try it.
 
Using two twisted motors to achieve spin is a whole lot simpler than spinning the launch tube.
Although you're starting at zero spin and losing axial thrust also.

Tradeoffs are life
 
jqavins said:
That's why, as I wrote, it's designed for tube launching. Mine will be a lot simpler than what Nytrunner saw, just a piece of pipe the right size and a couple of sticks that stand it and the rocket together off the ground be enough for the igniter and wires. If I ever get up the courage to try it.
Click to expand...
That's right, you did say launch from tube. So basically a powered Mortar. Hooking up igniters will be a challenge. Need to have excellent radial balance.

Here's a thread you might find interesting:

https://archive.rocketreviews.com/reviews/all/scratch_no_fins.shtml

Well, time to get stop highjacking THIS thread and get back to pencil pushing.
 
Nytrunner said:
and losing axial thrust also.
Click to expand...
Surprisingly little. Since the tangential thrust goes with the sine of the angle and the axial thrust goes with the cosine, if you have a mere 5° angle then you're getting 8.7% of the motor thrust directed tangentially, and still have 99.6% axially. At 10° it's 17.4% and 98.5%.

BABAR said:
Hooking up igniters will be a challenge.
Click to expand...
Surprisingly little, to coin a phrase. I would take my Odd'l ceramic dome blast deflector, put it between a couple of bricks, and stand the tube on those with the prepped rocket already inside. Hook up the igniter leads and I'm ready to go.

Correction: Come to think of it I'll need a little something to keep the tube from falling over. OK, strap a rod of some sort - it doesn't need to be much, maybe a garden stake - with a couple of big zip ties. Then when positioning the tube just push the stake into the dirt.

Well, time to get stop highjacking THIS thread and get back to pencil pushing.
Click to expand...
Oh, very well, if you insist. :)
 
I shot filler/primer today. Generally uneventful, although I was surprised to see that the seams in the label paper seemed not to fill, but became quite prominent:
primer seam.jpg

After that is sanded (no earlier than next weekend) I'll see if the seam if still there and will hit it with a bit of CWF if necessary.
 
Well indeed, after some sanding those seams remain. Will need some CWF to clean those up, and then ready for paint. Which is probably weeks away. :(

I guess I shouldn't be too surprised; those paper seams are not much different from spiral seams on a body tube, and those don't fill will a single coat of filler/primer. Wish I had thought to CWF them before priming, oh well.

(yes, there is more sanding to do; this was just an initial 220 grit to take the bulk off.)
Paper seam.jpg
 
neil_w said:
CWF sticks remarkably well to everything I've tried. Certainly the filler/primer is porous, and it grabs fine. At least I've never had a problem.
Click to expand...
I didn’t expect that. I was thinking of glue, I had read that you can’t glue parts together well after priming, but that you COULD still glue parts together after CWF. So you could CWF fins before attachment, but you shouldn’t prime before attachment and DEFINITELY shouldn’t paint before attachment (unless you either left or created bare attachment bonding points.)

So I had assumed CWF wouldn’t stick to primer. Ah well, you know what they say about what happens when you assume......
 
BABAR said:
I didn’t expect that. I was thinking of glue, I had read that you can’t glue parts together well after priming, but that you COULD still glue parts together after CWF. So you could CWF fins before attachment, but you shouldn’t prime before attachment and DEFINITELY shouldn’t paint before attachment (unless you either left or created bare attachment bonding points.)

So I had assumed CWF wouldn’t stick to primer. Ah well, you know what they say about what happens when you assume......
Click to expand...
Well, like I said I haven't had a problem. I apply a finishing coat of CWF to fill in the odd pits left over after I coat a nose cone with CA, and that has held also (at some point the paint will help hold it all together as well.)

CWF on top of gloss paint would possibly be a different story, but who knows.
 

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