Loc Forte'

When I ordered a Loc Lil' Diter I ordered an extra pack of CR's and a tubular nylon shock cord because I didn't know those items were included. I just ordered the 34" slotted body tube, 38mm motor tube and fin set for the Loc Forte' Someone in my club gave me a Loc 3.00" nose cone. I test fitted all the parts and they all fit well. Once I get motivated I'll start building.

This will be my second Loc kit build. The tubes, CRs and fins are very sturdy. I'm wondering what size motors people use in Loc 3.10" kits? They have 38mm motor tubes but I will be using the 38-29 adapter for 29mm motors.

I just completed an LOC weasel. My first plywood fin model. I feel like it is a very sturdy model, and the Forte may be my next larger build. Need to do a couple of smaller park model LOC's first to get a small fleet going.
Got the grandkids interested also, helping them build some estes kits.
Doing finish paint on the Weasel, an Aerotech Arreaubee Hi, and a couple of estes kits. First rockets I have built in over 25 years, looking forward to some medium power flying. Hope they fly well, spending a lot of time on paint. Wish I would have taken pics of both builds.

I never built a LOC kit. I would like too sometime?

double bogey said:

I just completed an LOC weasel. My first plywood fin model. I feel like it is a very sturdy model, and the Forte may be my next larger build. Need to do a couple of smaller park model LOC's first to get a small fleet going.
Got the grandkids interested also, helping them build some estes kits.
Doing finish paint on the Weasel, an Aerotech Arreaubee Hi, and a couple of estes kits. First rockets I have built in over 25 years, looking forward to some medium power flying. Hope they fly well, spending a lot of time on paint. Wish I would have taken pics of both builds.

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I just looked up the Loc Weasel on the Loc website. It looks like a very nice kit. It does not mention through the wall fins so I'll assume surface mounted. I helped a friend build a Loc Onyx with surface mount fins. We used epoxy for the entire build. Sounds like you are well on your way to once again becoming a successful rocketeer. It's great to get the grand kits involved. You will be known as the cool grandfather that builds and flies rockets.

AfterBurners said:

I never built a LOC kit. I would like too sometime?

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I have been mostly an Estes guy. Five years ago I got a Madcow Torrent for my L2. In addition to high and mid power, Loc has a number of smaller kits that look great. If you can build the small stuff you can build the bigger kits. I know people in my club that have been in the hobby for decades and have never flown the bigger stuff and they enjoy rocketry as much as anyone else. I have a couple of Estes Gnomes that I have a ball flying.

deangelo54 said:

I have been mostly an Estes guy. Five years ago I got a Madcow Torrent for my L2. In addition to high and mid power, Loc has a number of smaller kits that look great. If you can build the small stuff you can build the bigger kits. I know people in my club that have been in the hobby for decades and have never flown the bigger stuff and they enjoy rocketry as much as anyone else. I have a couple of Estes Gnomes that I have a ball flying.

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Any rocket is fun no matter what size. Usually its what you can afford to launch. I like both Right now I don't fly anything above a 29. I can fly 38's but its cost factor with me. Rocketry is a hobby you can enjoy at any level

I work in advertising and I know a good tag line when I see it. You should copy right "Rocketry is a hobby you can enjoy at any level." My friend that has a Loc Onyx prefers flying his BT60 kits on C11's more than he does the Onyx on an E30. Guess what? That L2 flight of my Madcow Torrent is my only 38mm flight and that was in 2015.

I have some kits that I have used Estes E12 and E16's with. A low cost alternative to composites. The only problem is that 50% of the time they CATO.

deangelo54 said:

I'm wondering what size motors people use in Loc 3.10" kits?

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Check the CG/CP, and throw an I or J in there. Healthy Titebond II fillets and attachment, and you'll be set (just consider dual deployment and/or tracker for the more powerful motors

I think Loc anticipates people using a wide range of motors in some of their kits. The Lil Diter and Forte' comes with a 38mm motor mount. Some of the suggested motors are 29mm. My Lil Diter weights 30 ounces with a used single use 29mm F motor. I'd be looking for an altitude of around 1,000 feet. What size motor would you suggest for that.

deangelo54 said:

I just looked up the Loc Weasel on the Loc website. It looks like a very nice kit. It does not mention through the wall fins so I'll assume surface mounted. I helped a friend build a Loc Onyx with surface mount fins. We used epoxy for the entire build. Sounds like you are well on your way to once again become a successful rocketeer. It's great to get the grand kits involved. You will be known as the cool grandfather that builds and flies rockets.

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The weasel does have TTW fins, 1/8" plywood.

Mid size F should do it.

Best way to tell is to simulate it in OpenRocket or Rocksim. Its really not difficult (sometimes getting it to install and run is the hard part)

While I am attracted to larger rockets, available funds will keep me from having as many as I would like.

The engines for larger rockets are more expensive than the black powder engines. Last year I did not get many flights in with composite engines. Hopefully this year I can allocate more funds for F and maybe G engines.

double bogey said:

The weasel does have TTW fins, 1/8" plywood.

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I just looked at the Onyx on the Loc website. It states, Now included a slotted airframe. On the Loc site it states that the Weasel has a pre-marked airframe. That's what Loc used to say about the Onyx. Sounds like Loc hasn't updated the description of the Weasel. From the description it sounds like a really nice kit with quality components that I'm sure you will enjoy flying.

In an earlier post you mentioned building Estes kits with the grand children. I'm curious as to which kits? Two years ago I helped my wife build an Estes High Flier XL. She flew it at the NSL in 2018 and got mentioned in Sport Rocketry Magazine.

As Detective Columbo would say, "You all have been very helpful but I have one last question." If anyone out that has built a Loc Forte' do you know the length of the motor tube? The airframe is 34" long and I currently have a loc 11" motor tube. I'm wondering if that is long enough or should I get either the Loc 14" or 20" motor tube?

I contacted someone at Loc and they said that the Forte' does come with a 11" motor tube but I found a post on Rocketry Reviews that says 21".

I know that some of you out there know how to calculate the volume in order to determine the optimum length motor tube. Who says it isn't rocket science.

The motor mount tube (with centering rings) just aligns the motor straight in the tube. For motors with thrust rings and aft retention, you can have mmt much shorter than your motor cases. (Which is why youll often hear folks say "leave out the motor block and make a tape thrust ring" it keeps motor options wide)

From an alignment standpoint, any more motor tube and centering rings forward of the fin tabs is wasted weight.

But, for large fiameter airframea, some may choose to extend the smaller mmt forward with a centering ring to reduce the internal volime that the ejection charge has to pressurize. This is called a stuffer tube.

What are you trying to optimize?

deangelo54 said:

I just looked at the Onyx on the Loc website. It states, Now included a slotted airframe. On the Loc site it states that the Weasel has a pre-marked airframe. That's what Loc used to say about the Onyx. Sounds like Loc hasn't updated the description of the Weasel. From the description it sounds like a really nice kit with quality components that I'm sure you will enjoy flying.

In an earlier post you mentioned building Estes kits with the grand children. I'm curious as to which kits? Two years ago I helped my wife build an Estes High Flier XL. She flew it at the NSL in 2018 and got mentioned in Sport Rocketry Magazine.

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ESAM 58, 2 - big berthas, and a mean machine. I bought one of them the riptide kit, which is a launch setup and a riptide rocket. We have flown the riptide and the EASM 58. Weather and wind has kept us from flying more. A Cherokee E is on the menu also. Hobby Lobby is nearby and the have lots of kits, some exclusive to them I think.

Nytrunner said:

The motor mount tube (with centering rings) just aligns the motor straight in the tube. For motors with thrust rings and aft retention, you can have mmt much shorter than your motor cases. (Which is why youll often hear folks say "leave out the motor block and make a tape thrust ring" it keeps motor options wide)

From an alignment standpoint, any more motor tube and centering rings forward of the fin tabs is wasted weight.

But, for large fiameter airframea, some may choose to extend the smaller mmt forward with a centering ring to reduce the internal volime that the ejection charge has to pressurize. This is called a stuffer tube.

What are you trying to optimize?

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Very good information. I will copy and paste it into a Word document and put it in my Rockets folder. I do recall hearing the term stuffer tube in relation to motor mount tubes.

The reason I asked about motor tube size is because I want to built the kit to the same specifications as the Loc Forte' as designed by Loc. I figure who ever designed the kit knows what he or she is doing. I guess you can say I want to optimize the design and performance of the kit. Hope that makes sense.

Since I reached out to people I figured out how to calculate the volume of a cylinder. An 11" MMT tube gives you a volume of 141 cubic inches. A 20" MMT give you 78 cubic inches. I downloaded a Rocksim file from Apogee and Rocket Reviews and opened it in Open Rocket. I found that the Loc Forte' has a 22.5" motor mount. So it looks like I will order the 20" tube from Loc. Thanks all for your inputs. This was a good learning experience.

double bogey said:

ESAM 58, 2 - big berthas, and a mean machine. I bought one of them the riptide kit, which is a launch setup and a riptide rocket. We have flown the riptide and the EASM 58. Weather and wind has kept us from flying more. A Cherokee E is on the menu also. Hobby Lobby is nearby and the have lots of kits, some exclusive to them I think.

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I have a Cherokee E that I purchased from Hobby Lobby last year. You are correct that it is sold exclusively by Hobby Lobby. It did a core sample last year when the chute did not come out and the body tube was not damaged at all. Enjoy building, painting and flying your kits.

I am painting nose cones today. The mail came with my decal set from stckershop23. This set is way above what I expected. I had painted the airframe bright yellow, and the decal pics have it black, the mfg has it silver with black tail and orange nosecone. I think it will look good with my yellow body and the new wrap. The wrap is pictured on the package.

https://stickershock23.com/product/pk-03-loc-weasel/

The set for the forte gives you 2 choices

https://stickershock23.com/product/pk-32-forte/

Thanks for the links. Stickershock makes really nice decals. I got their set for the Lil Diter.
I just ordered the 20" MMT from Loc. In order to make the shipping cost worth while I also ordered the Loc 1 Series Big Nuke. I look forward to flying that one.

Painting already. Either you are painting in doors or you live in a warm climate. Here in New England I won't be painting until late March or April.

deangelo54 said:

figure who ever designed the kit knows what he or she is doing. I guess you can say I want to optimize the design and performance of the kit. Hope that makes sense.

Since I reached out to people I figured out how to calculate the volume of a cylinder.

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Hehe, or they just had 22" tubes left when they finished laying out parts for something else. The rocket business is full of little occurences like that.

Im still uncertain what you're desiring to optimise. Altitude? Speed? Durability?

And im unsure what the volume calculations have to do with (other than ehectuom charge calculations, which are very important too)

Nytrunner said:

Hehe, or they just had 22" tubes left when they finished laying out parts for something else. The rocket business is full of little occurences like that.

Im still uncertain what you're desiring to optimise. Altitude? Speed? Durability?

And im unsure what the volume calculations have to do with (other than ehectuom charge calculations, which are very important too)

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That would be funny if you are correct about surplus 22" MMT tubes. Estes is known to use the same fin set for different Pro Series II kits.

The reason I'm concerned about the MMT tube length is so that there is not too much volume that needs to be pressurized during the ejection charge. If I had purchased the Forte' kit I would just use the parts that are provided. Where as I am building the kit from parts. I want to adhere to the same specifications.

Once again, I appreciate you taking the time to read and respond to my posts.

Let that be a problem of the past.

You can use this calculator to see the pressure created by ejection charge weights (AT and CTI list their charge loads online)

https://www.rockethead.net/black_powder_calculator.htm

Good luck!

That's a great tool. Thanks.

I have the forte, it weighs in around 34 Oz. built, I've not flown it on anything less than a G impulse. it really flies well on G76 reloads with adapter and the H123W 38/240s. Around 1100' on the former, around 2000' on the latter.

swatkat said:

I have the forte, it weighs in around 34 Oz. built, I've not flown it on anything less than a G impulse. it really flies well on G76 reloads with adapter and the H123W 38/240s. Around 1100' on the former, around 2000' on the latter.

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You are just the person I'm looking for! Can you please tell when when you purchased your Forte' and most importantly, what is the length of the MMT tube?

An altitude of 1,100' is in the ball park of what I am looking for. Here in Southern New England our fields are not that big.

Look forward to hearing from you.

I am in a suburb of Dallas. It got to the mid 60's today with a light wind. Warm enough that some kind of black gnats were in the yard. I am using the small 4 oz. sprayer from harbor freight, and I am pretty impressed with that gun. Bigger than an airbrush, lots smaller than a full size sprayer. Seems perfect for rockets and only $15. I am using outdoor acrylic Valspar paint from lowes. $13 a quart, or $4 for 7.25 ounces. Water cleanup. It will get a clear coat once decals are on, after testing. I did paint when it was in the low 40's by painting and bringing inside til the next coat.

double bogey said:

I am in a suburb of Dallas. It got to the mid 60's today with a light wind. Warm enough that some kind of black gnats were in the yard. I am using the small 4 oz. sprayer from harbor freight, and I am pretty impressed with that gun. Bigger than an airbrush, lots smaller than a full size sprayer. Seems perfect for rockets and only $15. I am using outdoor acrylic Valspar paint from lowes. $13 a quart, or $4 for 7.25 ounces. Water cleanup. It will get a clear coat once decals are on, after testing. I did paint when it was in the low 40's by painting and bringing inside til the next coat.

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I went to Garland a couple of times on business. I got to see a ballgame at the Ball Park in Arlington. I was impressed to see tailgating at t baseball game. Ya gotta love the Lone Star State.

they are building an enclosed stadium that wont be ready for this season, but next year. right next door to jerry's house.
I am in mesquite, right next door to garland.