Aerotek vs Estes: 24MM Motors

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lakeroadster

When in doubt... build hell-for-stout!
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In regard to 24MM motor CATO's.. does Aerotek have a better track record than Estes due to the construction style of their "single use" motors?

Or put another way... anybody ever CATO'd an Aerotek 24MM "Single Use" motor?

Thanks.


(Edited to specify "Single Use" motors)
 
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In regard to 24MM motor CATO's.. does Aerotek have a better track record than Estes due to the construction style of their motors?

Or put another way... anybody ever CATO'd an Aerotek 24MM motor?

Thanks.
I have CATO'd a AT 24/40 (F39 and only once), but in my many years of flying LPR I have had only 1 Estes 24mm motor CATO on me a D12, of course I refuse to fly Estes 24mm E motors since I value my rockets.
 
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I have flown a ton of f-24 and f-39's have 3 sets of hardware for them. never had an issue [probably just jinxed myself...lol]
love them ya get 3 reloads per pack. wildman has them everyday for 35% off
 
In regard to 24MM motor CATO's.. does Aerotek have a better track record than Estes due to the construction style of their motors?
Or put another way... anybody ever CATO'd an Aerotek 24MM motor?

24mm is a funny motor size.
I've just done a mental search, and have only maybe build 4 or 5 24mm MMT rockets.
One of them is still in flying condition, somewhere in the basement. Two new ones (Expedition and LJ-II) are in my build pile, courtesy of Estes's black Friday sale.

To answer your questions:
  1. All other things being equal, APCP motors are harder to CATO then Estes black powder motors.
    • That is because larger and longer BP slugs are more susceptible to fracture with temperature cycling, and occasional drops. Drops may accumulate throughout the supply chain, long before the motors came into your possession.
    • It's hard to mishandle APCP slugs.
  2. All other things are not equal. You have to build your 24mm AeroTech APCP motors, and not screw up the build process, not skip any steps, not get distracted, etc. While many of us find assembling reusable motors a fun and enjoyable activity, it does introduce a > 0% error rate into the process.
  3. Consequently, I've had at least two (2) AT CATOs, but they were all my fault. And those happened early on, when I was still getting on with the art of new screwing up motor assemblies.
  4. I have had ZERO (0) 24mm Estes CATOs, but I must have been lucky. And/or my sample size is too small. The total count of Estes D's and E's (9's and 12's) I've ever burned is probably in the dozens (mid 2-digits), definitely not 3-digits.
    • All of my D's and E's have been sourced from HobbyLobby (via 40% discount), which might suggest that they handle their inventory gently and carefully.
If you are thinking of buying 24mm AT hardware - do it!
F39T is one of my all-time favorite motors, and is a great value!

a
 
24mm is a funny motor size.
I've just done a mental search, and have only maybe build 4 or 5 24mm MMT rockets.
One of them is still in flying condition, somewhere in the basement. Two new ones (Expedition and LJ-II) are in my build pile, courtesy of Estes's black Friday sale.

To answer your questions:
  1. All other things being equal, APCP motors are harder to CATO then Estes black powder motors.
    • That is because larger and longer BP slugs are more susceptible to fracture with temperature cycling, and occasional drops. Drops may accumulate throughout the supply chain, long before the motors came into your possession.
    • It's hard to mishandle APCP slugs.
  2. All other things are not equal. You have to build your 24mm AeroTech APCP motors, and not screw up the build process, not skip any steps, not get distracted, etc. While many of us find assembling reusable motors a fun and enjoyable activity, it does introduce a > 0% error rate into the process.
  3. Consequently, I've had at least two (2) AT CATOs, but they were all my fault. And those happened early on, when I was still getting on with the art of new screwing up motor assemblies.
  4. I have had ZERO (0) 24mm Estes CATOs, but I must have been lucky. And/or my sample size is too small. The total count of Estes D's and E's (9's and 12's) I've ever burned is probably in the dozens (mid 2-digits), definitely not 3-digits.
    • All of my D's and E's have been sourced from HobbyLobby (via 40% discount), which might suggest that they handle their inventory gently and carefully.
If you are thinking of buying 24mm AT hardware - do it!
F39T is one of my all-time favorite motors, and is a great value!

a

Sorry.. I should have specified in my original post that I meant "Single Use" Aerotek 24MM motors.
 
I can remember only 1 E30 CATO out of maybe a dozen 24mm SU AT motors. I've had more than a dozen D12/E9 motors CATO but the sample size is larger at about 100 motors or so. The difference is when an Estes 24mm fails, more often than not, the rockets fine. The E30 destroyed the rocket completely.
 
If you value your rockets, do NOT fly an Estes engine bigger than a C/D. I’ve had plenty of E’s blow and only one Aerotech that I recall.
 
For me, an Aerotech 24mm motor will only fail when I decide to launch a classic rocket that has survived thirty years without any damage.





https://www.rocketreviews.com/roger-smiths-colossus.html




I think that is the only 24mm single-use Aerotech of mine that has suffered a catastrophic failure. I have had a couple with 29mm G motors. But, I have flown a lot of single-use Aerotech motors and have seen many more launched. They are very reliable.
 
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The single-use Aerotech E20 and E15 motors are much more reliable than Estes E12 and E9 motors.

The Estes are bad enough that we’ve been having what we call a Death Race at our club launches. It’s a mass launch of rockets flying on Estes E12 or E9 motors. BOOM! The last one had 14 rockets, and 3 blew up! Not great odds. And there were other Estes E catos throughout the day. I’ve been “sponsoring” the death races by providing free E12 motors to anyone who wants to participate. I want to get rid of them.
 
The single-use Aerotech E20 and E15 motors are much more reliable than Estes E12 and E9 motors.

The Estes are bad enough that we’ve been having what we call a Death Race at our club launches. It’s a mass launch of rockets flying on Estes E12 or E9 motors. BOOM! The last one had 14 rockets, and 3 blew up! Not great odds. And there were other Estes E catos throughout the day. I’ve been “sponsoring” the death races by providing free E12 motors to anyone who wants to participate. I want to get rid of them.

I'll only fly Estes E's in cheap/free things like saucers but that's it. Hell I had an E12 cato on a saucer. Luckily do damage as it was a clean core blow-out.
 
I'll fly Estes E9s and E12s all day. Please send all the ones you have to me.
 
Not to hi jack but how many of you use the 24/60 reload? It seems to offer some good options although I think the 24/40 is a better choice.

I fly the 24/40 quite a bit, and I've never been in a situation where I felt like I really needed another 20 Ns. Most of my rockets that are too big for the 24/40 get a 29mm motor mount.
 
Not to hi jack but how many of you use the 24/60 reload? It seems to offer some good options although I think the 24/40 is a better choice.
I have flown the F35 in a few and the F62 in an adapter in the 1.6" Madcow Pike AGM33. Also like the F24 and F39 for the 24/40case, the F39 is the only load for that case with a 9second delay and I need that in one rocket. I just bought a CTI 3grain 24mm case and a few loads to try this up coming spring as well. It has a good bit more Ns than the 24/60; CTI 24 3 grain has full F motors I'm planning to use on the Estes V2. got a 24 6 grain case possibly for that as well if the 3 grain works out first
 
Use enough of any of them and you will experience a motor failure.
The Aerotech 24/60 hardware is close to bulletproof.
 
Had a couple of E-30's Cato. One was in my Rocket Vision Chariot. Melted the main body tube. It was one month after they went out of business. Seems like chances for a Cato are directly related to the personal value of the rocket.
 
I've had a rather high failure rate of the AT F44, 2 out of 4, so I'm not keen on those. Only once had an AT E20 split, but none of the AT E15s, which are the same motor, different packaging. I've flown a lot of 24/40 relaods, never had a failure,. Lately, Estes E12s have been good for me, but had a bunch fail from the initial 2011 production runs. I can't recall ever having a Estes D12 failure, and I've flown hundreds of those. I've flown 7 motor clusters of D12 motors, but haven't wanted to try clusters of E12. :eek:
 
I have had only one AT single use cato on me and that was an E20 in an Estes Saturn V.
I don't mind Estes E's either, although I've had my fair share of cato's.
Here's a particularly good one, one of the three E 9's let go in a Fliskits Richter Recker

index.php


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I do! still coming up to speed with modern rocketry... CATO is...? Catastrophic something or other? Now i see an unlit motor and two still burning, has the uinlit one fired its ejection charge early? And is tha just somebody else's rocket going up beside yours?

(noooooooobie!!)
 
I do! still coming up to speed with modern rocketry... CATO is...? Catastrophic something or other? Now i see an unlit motor and two still burning, has the uinlit one fired its ejection charge early? And is tha just somebody else's rocket going up beside yours?

(noooooooobie!!)

A cato is when a motor explodes or otherwise fails to perform as intended.
In this case, one of the E9-6 motors in a three motor cluster blew through the forward end, causing the rocket to separate. The flaming thing flying next to the rocket is the propellant slug.
index.php

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Cato/CATO is as Malbar stated.

Depending on what you want, it can mean a shortening of Catastrophic Failure if you enjoy using "Co-Rekt lingo" from 60-70 years ago and get a kick out of correcting trivialities, or it can be Catastrophe At Take Off which is a bacronym for folks that like wordplay and enjoy watching the first kind of person's eyeball start to twitch
 
I do! still coming up to speed with modern rocketry... CATO is...? Catastrophic something or other? Now i see an unlit motor and two still burning, has the uinlit one fired its ejection charge early? And is tha just somebody else's rocket going up beside yours?

(noooooooobie!!)
Someone sent me this link when I first joined TRF. Helped me out. Time to pass it on. :angel:

https://www.rocketreviews.com/glossary.html
 
Sorry.. I should have specified in my original post that I meant "Single Use" Aerotek 24MM motors.

I have had the AT single use E15 and E30 blow apart and ruin a nice rocket [last one an AT IQSY] . I have marked those bags of 3 units to only fly in Odd Rocs not cared about based on date codes.
 
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Man, talk about a trip down memory lane! I'd just joined! And how the #(&$#&*! is it FOUR YEARS? I wasn't sure how to do everything... look at the support I got! I owe a few "thumbs up" for old times' sake!

Annnd, err, how is the Aerotech vs Estes 24 mm thing going? In the in-between, hasn't Estes identified and corrected a problem with their E's? I remember even then, anticipating retirement, that I'd get an Aerotech 24/40 case and be able to go full "F" impulse in the same space as an Estes "E"... still haven't done it. Aerotech has made good on some Quest 18 mm D's I had with bad nozzles, but @Art Upton has some single use Aerotech E's blow apart... My little bitty bit of rocketry can't suffer much loss, my wife already thinks its a dumb choice for a hobby (lotsa trees here in Western PA...)
 
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