Legalities of amateur launch

So over winter break I took the kids to launch at the local middle school. I got permission from admin with a few stipulations. I was only launching As and Bs, a couple Cs in Big Bertha. Several kids gathered to watch as the day went on. So this morning I get a letter in the mailbox, not postmarked, just addressed to "The Rocket Guy". Apparently there are 30+ middle school students who want to watch another launch day. It also said they asked and their science dept. just doesn't have the resources. One of the stipulations the principal gave me was I couldn't advertise it, just my family.

First, I'm happy to introduce newcomers to the hobby, but I have very limited time. Now, I wouldn't want it to just be a spectator thing either, I'd expect them to build and fly their kits also. I'm newly BAR, in fact that was my third launch in decades, I'm not even an NAR member yet. The closest club launches across town, inaccessible for most of these kids. Assuming I find a more accessible site could I just post a come watch day and have further conversations from there(hopefully with some parents)? Would that be asking for trouble? How would you proceed?

I would let the principle know what 'happened'. It would seem that a principle would be very excited to see 30+ students interested in something outside related, science and STEM. I would also contact 'the club' who launches at the "across town". They have have some STEM or out reach program.

Oregon is a pretty active Rocketry area. Oregon State University has a very active Rocketry team. ( i realize you're not reffering to college kids in your post)

Tony

You might want to look into your local Scout and 4H clubs. I volunteer with 4H, helping run a rocket club. The 4H label gets us access much easier than as “civilians.”

LazloZ28 said:

So over winter break I took the kids to launch at the local middle school. I got permission from admin with a few stipulations. I was only launching As and Bs, a couple Cs in Big Bertha. Several kids gathered to watch as the day went on. So this morning I get a letter in the mailbox, not postmarked, just addressed to "The Rocket Guy". Apparently there are 30+ middle school students who want to watch another launch day. It also said they asked and their science dept. just doesn't have the resources. One of the stipulations the principal gave me was I couldn't advertise it, just my family.

Click to expand...

First of all - congrats on having fun with rockets, and spreading the enthusiasm in your neck of the woods.
Secondly - it seams like you are in a position to go and re-negotiate with the school's principal and admins, if you are so inclined!

LazloZ28 said:

The closest club launches across town, inaccessible for most of these kids. Assuming I find a more accessible site could I just post a come watch day and have further conversations from there(hopefully with some parents)? Would that be asking for trouble? How would you proceed?

Click to expand...

Based on my NJ experience (and mind you NJ is a hyper-over-regulated state) - anyone can do anything legal in the public spaces. Including launching rockets.
No organizational overhead or paperwork required, until you progress to high-power rockets.

I've taken my, and other, kids to way more impromptu (low-power) rocket launches at local parks, baseball diamonds, and HS soccer fields then I've attended NAR/TRA sanctioned launches.

Kids have WAAAAYYYYY more fun at a single impromptu rocket launch event, than all the adults combined from all the NAR/TRA launch events I've ever attended:

• They all actively cheer each other up
• They cheer when the rockets lands, and chase it together to bring it back
• They cheer when it gets hung up on a tree, and don't mind loosing a rocket one bit
• If they get the rocket back, they ask if there is a bigger motor they could fly it on for the next launch
• It's just more fun to launch with the kids!

If you have the equipment and the desire - just do it!

HTH,
a

afadeev said:

First of all - congrats on having fun with rockets, and spreading the enthusiasm in your neck of the woods.
Secondly - it seams like you are in a position to go and re-negotiate with the school's principal and admins, if you are so inclined!



Based on my NJ experience (and mind you NJ is a hyper-over-regulated state) - anyone can do anything legal in the public spaces. Including launching rockets.
No organizational overhead or paperwork required, until you progress to high-power rockets.

I've taken my, and other, kids to way more impromptu (low-power) rocket launches at local parks, baseball diamonds, and HS soccer fields then I've attended NAR/TRA sanctioned launches.

Kids have WAAAAYYYYY more fun at a single impromptu rocket launch event, than all the adults combined from all the NAR/TRA launch events I've ever attended:

• They all actively cheer each other up
• They cheer when the rockets lands, and chase it together to bring it back
• They cheer when it gets hung up on a tree, and don't mind loosing a rocket one bit
• If they get the rocket back, they ask if there is a bigger motor they could fly it on for the next launch
• It's just more fun to launch with the kids!

If you have the equipment and the desire - just do it!

HTH,
a

Click to expand...

There's actually a huge sports complex nearby that would be perfect. I originally planned our launches there, we could go Ds and Es. Unfortunately there's 6 baseball diamonds right in the center where most rockets would land. A pad lock on every single gate to get in..... I've tried to contact anyone, even the baseball league with no response. We're not in the worst part of town, but crime is rising and everything seems locked down these days.

Talk to the people at OROC (Oregon Rocketry) - https://www.oregonrocketry.com - I think you'll find an email address on the web site. They might be able to put you in touch with information, launch sites, etc. I know they run public LPR launches in the Portland area at least once a month or so during the flying season.

Kelly said:

Talk to the people at OROC (Oregon Rocketry) - https://www.oregonrocketry.com - I think you'll find an email address on the web site. They might be able to put you in touch with information, launch sites, etc. I know they run public LPR launches in the Portland area at least once a month or so during the flying season.

Click to expand...

Or, you know, just post here and somebody from OROC might notice your message. @LazloZ28, send me a PM and I will forward your message to the folks who most often deal with low power pick-up launches.

For other people who are in the same spot looking for volunteers, email the local club. We get a few of emails from the club looking for volunteers who can help out a group closer to their home than we normally launch.

For the OP, is the baseball diamond operated by the city parks department or is it a separate sports association? If it's parks, you might be able to gain access, though they might want a rental fee as well. If it's a private association, then they may not want anyone else on their fields.

LazloZ28 said:

There's actually a huge sports complex nearby that would be perfect. I originally planned our launches there, we could go Ds and Es. Unfortunately there's 6 baseball diamonds right in the center where most rockets would land. A pad lock on every single gate to get in..... I've tried to contact anyone, even the baseball league with no response. We're not in the worst part of town, but crime is rising and everything seems locked down these days.

Click to expand...

Based on my experience you won't have much luck getting access to the fields. They keep them locked to prevent 'unauthorized' play and practice on the fields. Some have agreements with various organizations to actually prevent their use by others. The big concern is damage to the field and equipment, which is exactly why they probably won't let you on the field, even if it is owned by the city. Most of the nicer fields don't even allow practice, other than pre-game warmups.

Thats just based on my experience, hopefully your mileage will vary.


Tony

First, join the NAR. That gets you liability insurance, provided you're launching legally (which you seem to have been on that school field) and following the safety code. Wherever this goes next, get the insurance.

I'd do two things that others have said and that work well together. Tell the school principal what happened, and reach out to the club on the other side of town; get them talking to each other. What I'd be trying for is to get a school approved club run launch on a regular basis. And then you can bow out if you want or need to.

And join that club, if only for your own BAR journey.

jqavins said:

First, join the NAR. That gets you liability insurance, provided you're launching legally (which you seem to have been on that school field) and following the safety code. Wherever this goes next, get the insurance.

I'd do two things that others have said and that work well together. Tell the school principal what happened, and reach out to the club on the other side of town; get them talking to each other. What I'd be trying for is to get a school approved club run launch on a regular basis. And then you can bow out if you want or need to.

And join that club, if only for your own BAR journey.

Click to expand...

I am pretty sure the OP was talking about OROC, To be clear, the club isn't on the other side of town. The club is statewide, although a lot of club activities are in the Portland metro area (because that is where most of the Oregonians are). During the not-raining-all-the-time months OROC holds a monthly low power launch. Those launches happen at a city park on the other side of Portland from Gresham. Because it is a small field, it is restricted to C motors (at the discretion of the person running the launch controller, whom we shall call the Launch Control Officer).

A couple of shots of the launch pads from the last launch of the 2019 season



The trees and fence in the background are about 300 feet away from the pads. There are houses just on the other side of the trees.

As @jquavins notes, the launches there are under NAR.

There are pick-up launches (in addition to scheduled launches) from time to time, as one or another member gets access to a field, or when some organization reaches out to the club for a demonstration, student activity, etc. These are generally announced to the club over the mailing list. If they are open to the general public, the dates may be published on the club's website.

I think the "legalities" boil down to getting landowner permission and respecting the neighbors. City Parks and Rec have a lot of yours and my money invested in their soccer fields and baseball diamonds. Many have a long "can't do" list including all types of flying hobbies. That said, Your Mileage Will Vary. Getting educators and youth group leaders on board should help your efforts when talking to The Man.

jqavins said:

I'd do two things that others have said and that work well together. Tell the school principal what happened, and reach out to the club on the other side of town; get them talking to each other. What I'd be trying for is to get a school approved club run launch on a regular basis.

Click to expand...

I would gently caution against the above approach.

Talking to the local club is great, but you are passing the buck from doing the work with kids yourself, to having club's officers do it for you. Some are up for another challenge; many have jobs and families to attend to.

The biggest obstacle you can put in front of yourself is asking the local school to setup a new (any) rocket club. In our school district, school-sponsored clubs require teacher supervision. Teachers require compensation, for which there is a very limited pool of funds allocated at the start of the school year. Without realizing this, such a request would imply kicking off a re-budgeting activity for principal. Unless he/she is a glutton for punishment, the easiest answer the principal would give you is to go away.

Keep it simple, good things will happen.

HTH,
a

While taking it on one's self is great, the stipulation in the original post was "I have very limited time." Connecting the school with a club is the next best thing. And I wasn't talking about starting a club within the school, just getting them to allow the field use regularly.

I would talk to the principal, mainly because it's worth having their support when it comes to using school facilities. Most school districts allow educational groups to use their facilities for free. If you're in the Gresham School District, that policy is here, and the fee schedule for facility rental is here. You'll notice that the fee for a nonprofit school/community-based educational group using a school field is a grand total of $0. This is pretty common for school districts all over. What you want to do is ask the principal what words you need to use to get either you or the local rocket club under the "free" group. In the Gresham School District, the distinction is whether the group is a community education group (like YMCA, 4-H, etc.) or a private group primarily for the benefit of its members. You want to be marked as the former to get free use of the fields.

Once you spend an hour or two with the principal to get that set up, you can almost certainly get people from the local rocket club to help with launches.

jqavins said:

While taking it on one's self is great, the stipulation in the original post was "I have very limited time." Connecting the school with a club is the next best thing. And I wasn't talking about starting a club within the school, just getting them to allow the field use regularly.

Click to expand...

Fair point, I missed that part.

First of all, there's nothing better than a bunch of kids screaming and yelling at a rocket launch. It's good for the soul. Just be careful - it's absolutely impossible to keep kids from running after the rockets as they're coming back down. And, that's when there's more good screaming and yelling.
Second, it seems like all the pieces are in place - the principal is on board, there are a bunch of kids that want to participate, and you have a big enough field on-site at the Middle School.
Third, you don't have much time.

So, I'll agree with contacting any clubs that exist. You're not necessarily asking the club to take over; you're asking if anyone in the club would like to help. Most likely, you'll find out that there are a number of members who are experienced in this kind of event, and are more than happy to bring out equipment and expertise to make it happen. If you wanna have 30 kids launching rockets, you're likely gonna need a multiple-site launcher, and someone already has one of those and would be happy to bring it out. Dog barf works better for protecting the chutes in these kinds of rockets; you don't really want to buy a bale just for this, but someone at the club already has. You may indeed be able to get the club to take over completely; but I don't think you can rely on that.

In my experience, the kids are just as happy launching rockets with 'A' motors that they can see the entire flight, as they are launching 'C' motors where trying to sight the rocket is difficult and there's a chance of losing one. Plan on 'A's - they're cheaper, and more kids get to take their rockets home afterwards.

You're gonna have to buy rockets. Frankly, it's hard to beat the school rockets from Balsa Machining (https://www.balsamachining.com/). $6 for a basic rocket with TTW fins is great - and the TTW fins are so much easier for the kids to build than classic glue-on fins. Plan for another $6 for engines for each rocket (two flights), and you're up to $12 per kid. Build up a few extra rockets before the event to hand out to kids whose rocket fell apart, or got stepped on. See if your company has a community outreach program where they might be willing to cough up a couple hundred dollars for a school program. See if you can rely on the science department to build the rockets in school - a couple of days should be plenty.

LazloZ28 said:

There's actually a huge sports complex nearby that would be perfect. I originally planned our launches there, we could go Ds and Es. Unfortunately there's 6 baseball diamonds right in the center where most rockets would land. A pad lock on every single gate to get in..... I've tried to contact anyone, even the baseball league with no response. We're not in the worst part of town, but crime is rising and everything seems locked down these days.

Click to expand...

Somewhat similar situation with padlocked fences around the soccer fields here. There is a central parking lot with a small grassy area, the region is usually deserted during the weekdays before 4 p.m.

I launch from the central area. Rockets frequently land in the soccer fields, the fences are low (I think they are there to keep idjits from driving their cars onto the fields and doing donuts and other vandalism), and fortunately I am in decent shape and can hop the fences quickly in and out to recover any miscreant rockets. The few field maintenance people and "civilians" haven't given me any comments to the contrary on weekdays. I have had 2 officers in a police squad car watching one of my launches, they seemed quite entertained and didn't trouble me a bit.

I HAVE been asked to leave on a weekend when I was doing an early morning launch. Got a couple rockets off. Elementary school age soccer team showed up later in the morning, they were two fields away, but the parents asked me not to launch any more that day (the kids actually were getting a kick out of watching them from their end of the park.) I elected to call it a day.

Since you have already been contacted BY the Principle, whatever you do needs to be communicated with him/her, as he/she is gonna find out what you do anyway. I am sure you observe good safety precautions for your launches anyway, but DOUBLE them when you have young spectators around, and TRIPLE them when you have PARENTS around. Nothing like an inadvertent "lawn dart" on public property to light up the anti-rocket zealots.

I found out that the "ring leader" of these kids is my wife's friend's son. They're not really interested in building or anything, they just wanna watch rockets launch, easy enough. I did offer if he and a friend or two would like to get a kit I'm happy to help, and I'll let him know if we have plans for a launch day.

I do plan on joining NAR, and OROC this year, though I may have to do some "creative budgeting" as the wife is already sniffing around my rocketry spending. I really want to bring my son out for the HPR launches this summer, but I'm gonna have to sell it as an RVing trip.