I am getting a Tesla

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I have thought about a Tesla. They need a station in my area first. I would not pretend delude myself that I saving the planet by buying one.

I've charged away from home a grand total of once in 4 years, and we just charge off of a standard 110V outlet. If your commute is less than 30 [edit] miles* [/edit] one way, you can almost certainly charge at home overnight.

I think WA is getting ahead of CA in EV fees now some of my co-workers were whining about EV fees because the state is losing gas tax dollars without the fees.

That's a bit of a pain. I spend about as much on the extra gas tax replacement fees as I do on power for the car.

* The original had a silly typo: mils instead of miles. If you have a 30-mil commute, no need for a car at all. :)
 
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We are 39 1/2 months into a 36 month lease on a 2016 Kia Soul EV (we extended the lease 6 months hoping to bridge to the new version of the Soul EV, which now won’t be coming to the US until “sometime in 2021”:( ). It has just under 39,000 miles on it now.

The near term plan is to purchase the current one, which we love dearly and I would keep until it wore out if it had twice the range, off the lease extension and then turn it over maybe in late 2021 or early 2022. By then the new-generation Soul EV, as well as the Tesla Model Y and the Ford Mach-E should all be available. The hatchback/wagon form factor suits our needs well for both rocket stuff (including club GSE) and things like my wife’s full-sized lever harp.

In the time we’ve had the Soul EV, we’ve charged it almost exclusively at home (I had a level 2 charger installed shortly after we got the car which can fully charge it in ~4 hours, though we seldom run it that far down). A power company rebate basically paid for the charger (but not the electrical work to install it).

Since we’ve had the Soul EV our electric bill increased ~$40/month. For that we drive the car 800-1000 miles a month. It is always the first choice for either my wife or myself unless we are going different directions or we’re going on a road trip (say, going over to fly with Rich in eastern Washington). Our other car is a 2013 Mazda3 5-door. When we are going two different directions the rule in the house is that whoever is going the furthest (but within the range of the the EV or handy fast charging) gets it, as we both really enjoy driving it.

It has had exactly one “scheduled maintenance” visit to the dealer, which consisted of rotating the tires and putting in a new cabin air filter. It’s a bit overdue to do these again. It has had one serious issue—the onboard charger died—but that was fixed fairly promptly under warranty and the only cost was putting gas in the loaner Soul the dealer let us use while our car was in the shop. Even then, it could be fast charged (as that process bypasses the onboard charger on an EV).

It will need new tires in the spring if we do keep it as planned. But any car needs tires eventually....

As boatgeek said, we’re never going back. We would like to see more charging infrastructure in the US Southwest as that is where we are both from and we still visit there when we can. There is more than enough charging available around here and sometimes we do use it for trips that are outside of the round-trip range of the Soul EV. We will likely be going to NSL this year and then going into NM to visit family. This time that trip will have to be in the Mazda. I hope in a few years we’d be able to do that trip comfortably in our next EV.

Rich is correct in that Washington State is “ahead of California” (as if that were a good thing) in EV fees. Some of them may or may not stand thanks to a voter initiative from last fall (and subsequent court wrangling). At the same time, the state in the last legislative session, reinstated the EV exemption for the sales tax up to, I think, $35K of vehicle cost. And this time they extended it to used EVs as well (which may figure into our buying the current Soul EV off the lease). So they are sending profoundly mixed messages about EV use.

The federal credit will figure into our next purchase I am sure - Tesla no longer is eligible, but both Kia and Ford will likely still be. For the current lease, that benefit went to the leasing company, which is one reason the lease deal was such a good one.

If a plug-in hybrid that has an EV-mode range of ~60 miles appears in the next couple of years, that will also get a good hard look, if it’s a hatchback and comes with an interior color other than black. That would be a good way to do our in-town EV-ing and not worry on multi-state road trips such as the trip to NARAM in Muncie this past summer. I do worry that PHEVs would be “interesting” maintenance-wise since they essentially have two complete power trains in them. As noted above, one of the real beauties of BEVs is that there is essentially no regular maintenance to do.
 
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If the power goes how will you pump the gas?

After the fiasco of back to back hurricanes here several years ago most of the gas stations and most of the grocery stores now have backup generators.

As a note from the fiasco season, Publix (if you are from Florida you know), was throwing out all their frozen foods when the power went out, I got about 30 frozen pizzas, put them in my chest freezer that was powered off my generator then cooked them on my Weber pretty much every night for dinner. We didn't have power for 10 days, and when it went back on only half the neighborhood got it for about 3 days.
 
Another option is to do a whole house generator. If you have access to LP or natural gas this is a great option and most homes can be powered off a 22kW unit. These run about $6,000 with the transfer switch. Installation is where it gets tricky.

Even if you don't have gas in your neighborhood, you can get a tank and in many cases for free including install provided you sign a contract for five years of filling.
 
Would be nice but I truly would not expect it to happen in the current administration.

Actually and surprisingly this has bi-partisan support, and I think the extension bill was introduced by a Republican.
 
you fill up before the power goes out. Usually have ample warning in florida!

The problem is the lines get ridiculously long, and then people decide to wait, and then we never know if or how long the power will be out. In this last case we thought for sure we were toast. In fact at my office we took pictures of our entire facility and inventory b/c we were sure none of it would be there when we came back and it turned and did what we expected it to do here in the Bahamas instead. We lucked out, but our good friends east of us didn't fare so well.
 
...I do worry that PHEVs would be “interesting” maintenance-wise since they essentially have two complete power trains in them. As noted above, one of the real beauties of BEVs is that there is essentially no regular maintenance to do.

This is a valid point. The number of components that have been crammed under my Clarity's hood is dizzying.

I assume that with the right training and tools it would be relatively simple to work on a BEV--much like it used to be relatively easy to work on a ICE vehicle.
 
This is a valid point. The number of components that have been crammed under my Clarity's hood is dizzying.

I assume that with the right training and tools it would be relatively simple to work on a BEV--much like it used to be relatively easy to work on a ICE vehicle.
For what it's worth, my two Priuses had exactly zero drive-train issues over 13 years. However, the gas motors do require maintenance, unlike my Tesla which is almost scarily maintenance-free.
 
This is a valid point. The number of components that have been crammed under my Clarity's hood is dizzying.

I assume that with the right training and tools it would be relatively simple to work on a BEV--much like it used to be relatively easy to work on a ICE vehicle.

Maintenance and repair is basically body stuff on EVs. Wash/wax, tires, cabin air filter. My transmission is sealed, don't touch for 100,000 miles (or life of car). No bearing or brush maintenance on the motors in any reasonable period, and one would probably just replace the black boxes rather than try to repair them. I do most of my own car maintenance and there is so much less on an EV.
 
I am getting a Tesla in a few months and here are my thoughts and reasons. Reason 1. I don't have to stop at a gas station ever again 2. Reliance on foreign energy 3. They are just cool 4. HOV lane access all the time

Only major issue... I live in Florida. If our power goes out due to hurricane, which it will, this might present a problem. I am looking into getting solar installed to negate this issue however. Also trying to talk my employer into taking advantage of the tax break they get by installing chargers in the parking lot. Since we are in a building that is on the same grid as the actual power company, we hardly ever loose power and when we do we have massive gensets that power the entire building.
Solar on the rooftop, Tesla Powerwall in the garage. Power could be out for days, you'd be fine. The house would have lights, the car would be charged. Only issue is if the hurricane blows your house away...
 
Maintenance and repair is basically body stuff on EVs. Wash/wax, tires, cabin air filter. My transmission is sealed, don't touch for 100,000 miles (or life of car). No bearing or brush maintenance on the motors in any reasonable period, and one would probably just replace the black boxes rather than try to repair them. I do most of my own car maintenance and there is so much less on an EV.
The one item I know of on the Tesla at least is battery coolant fluid replacement, every two years I believe (I haven't gotten to the two year mark yet so not certain on that).
 
There is a small coolant loop for the battery in our Soul EV....I believe it is a 100K mile task to change the coolant.

Another point - because of regenerative braking, the friction brakes on an EV should last essentially for the life of the car. They are sized to stop the car without regen, but I can’t imagine anyone driving an EV without using it. (On Teslas I don’t think you even have that choice). It’s cool to go down in the valley from where I live up a hill and have the estimated range on the Soul be the same, or higher, than when I left the driveway. Of course I give that back going up the hill....but an EV goes up a hill so effortlessly.
 
I'm not educated on Teslas. I've seen them around more and more since I moved to Phoenix but today was the first time I saw one on autopilot (I think). There was a guy in the HOV lane taking notes on a legal pad with both hands off the wheel. Freaked me out a little. Not sure what to think about it providing what I saw was indeed the car driving itself. I leave open the possibility that the guy was driving with his knee which would have been totally acceptable.
 
The best reason to buy an EV is that elections are cheaper than molecules

Wow, what a odd rationalization.....
Hard to beat the ease, portability and energy density of a gallon of gasoline.
Combustion Auto's real downfall is the gridlock which keeps them at idle a disproportionate period of time.

Until we shift to nuclear power generation, electric cars will never pencil out for the environment.
And don't forget the mining and disposal impact for rare-earth minerals in the batteries and magnets.

I wish the investment in charging stations would have been re-directed to hydrogen fill stations.
 
My wife is thinking of getting a Tesla so we've been doing a lot of research. Of all the Tesla owners we've talked to, not one has regretted it and all said they would buy another one. This was both Model S and Model 3 owners (no Model X owners). Lack of scheduled maintenance for things like fluid changes and overall general lack of mechanical issues was constantly brought up, although some did have fit and finish issues that had to be resolved. In fact other than tires and air filter changes for the A/C, there isn't any scheduled maintenance. I think the only fluid in a Tesla is the brake fluid, and even that only requires a check every 2 years as most of the braking is regenerative.

One thing a lot of folks miss in the whole comparison of gas vs EV is the amount of other types of petroleum based fluids gas (and diesel) vehicles use in things like engine oil, transmission fluid, coolant, etc. Add in all the subsystems on gas cars that can go wrong and the typical maintenance costs on an EV are far less than for gas. But of course you do have to add in the cost of adding a charging station to your house if you go that route. (Some don't because it's available in their apartment parking garage, etc.) But overall nearly all drivers seemed to feel that they were spending a lot less on maintenance and repair. Studies on the web reinforce this conclusion.

And as far as batteries go a large fleet operator just did a study and found that based on their experience, the battery packs will likely have a service life that meets or exceeds the life of the average EV.

Also, the technology in the Teslas was often mentioned as one of the great things about them. Many new cars have added in lots of similar tech, but Teslas were built from the ground up with it front and center. The number one overall comment from all the Tesla drivers was how different the driving experience is in a Tesla vs a typical ICE vehicle. Overall they said they enjoyed driving their Tesla over their other cars.

I try to look at is simply as buying a new car, and the features, reliability, and driving experience it will offer. I'm not looking to save the planet, save a bunch of money, or make any kind of statement. (Well, that's my feeling, my wife's may vary.) The Tesla from all my research and talking to actual owners seems to be a great driving car that offers a very different ownership experience than an ICE vehicle. Cleary it's not for everyone, but at least those I talked to, it seems to be a very good choice.


Tony
 
I'll chime in here.

1st. I have an electric car. A Chevy Volt. It has a gasoline backup generator. The layout is similar to the Honda Clarity.

2nd. I couldn't care less about my carbon footprint or where the energy comes from.

Here are some facts.

Modern ICE's run at around a 30-40% thermal efficiency. That means that only 30-40% of the gas is used to move the car.
This is actually really efficient, the energy density of petroleum is very high.

Most electricity in the USA is generated with natural gas. These generators run at around a 60% thermal efficiency. Pretty good.

Line losses tend to run around 10%.

Those numbers are easy to define and prove.

Now comes the guessing (for me). How much electricity do you need to pull to get 100KVA in your battery? I'm going to guess there is a 10% loss. I hope others here can help with this number.

I won't get into the losses from heat generated by the batteries as you pull power from them. But I suspect it's not insignificant.

So a quick and dirty summation is that the electric car is only slightly more efficient, energy wise, than an ICE.

Modern ICE's are VERY clean, so are modern Natural gas generating plants.

Some electric car facts.

The batteries are lasting longer than was expected.

Range varies a lot! If you take your 300 mile Tesla and accelerate to 60 in 3 sec it will decrease your range and your battery life. If its cold out, and the batteries need to be heated, expect your range to drop, about 10-20%. If you need to run run the windshield wipers or heater or the defroster or even the lights expect the range to drop. Not much, but it all adds up.
 
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We bought a rental home in FL a few years ago
I thought of having solar panels installed and build my own powerwall and add a small generator.
Unfortunately, Fl Power spends millions lobbying against residential solar power.
As I understand you can only get solar systems installed by a utility company in FL.
I'd rather just install a generator panel and run it on LP.
I am getting a Tesla in a few months and here are my thoughts and reasons. Reason 1. I don't have to stop at a gas station ever again 2. Reliance on foreign energy 3. They are just cool 4. HOV lane access all the time

Only major issue... I live in Florida. If our power goes out due to hurricane, which it will, this might present a problem. I am looking into getting solar installed to negate this issue however. Also trying to talk my employer into taking advantage of the tax break they get by installing chargers in the parking lot. Since we are in a building that is on the same grid as the actual power company, we hardly ever loose power and when we do we have massive gensets that power the entire building.
 
Wow, what a odd rationalization.....
Hard to beat the ease, portability and energy density of a gallon of gasoline.
Combustion Auto's real downfall is the gridlock which keeps them at idle a disproportionate period of time.

Until we shift to nuclear power generation, electric cars will never pencil out for the environment.
And don't forget the mining and disposal impact for rare-earth minerals in the batteries and magnets.

I wish the investment in charging stations would have been re-directed to hydrogen fill stations.

I'm just saying it cheaper to drive on electricity than gas. I can drive 40 miles to work each day for a few pennies of electricity, or I can spend a few dollars for a gallon of gas to drive the same distance.

I'm a cheapskate, so that is enough of a selling point for me.
 
The average transaction price of a model 3 is north of $50k according to Google. At that price, and with gas at $2.60 per gallon national average, a Tesla seems to be more of a luxury purchase with a green badge for most rather than an economic one. Gas prices in WA and CA are much higher than avg. so fuel savings are higher there, but break even point on a $50k EV compared to a Corolla, Civic or similar ICE vehicle under $30k is greater than 10 years by my numbers.
 
If all you consider is gas, perhaps. As I noted above, we've put about 39K miles on a Kia Soul EV in 40 months for $40/month in electricity, and one less-than-$100 scheduled maintenance visit to the dealer. I am in Washington where gas is currently over $3 a gallon. So $40/month is the cost equivalent of 13 gallons of gas.

But in those miles there are eight oil changes I haven't done, one coolant change I haven't done (assuming every two years in a typical ICE car). The costs for the second 39K miles will be the same. No spark plugs and no intake air filters to change, either .

Our 2013 Mazda3 has been very low maintenance as cars go, but it's rather more than $100 every 40K miles....
 
Grid losses are in the 50% ballpark.
Charging and discharge efficiency is AT BEST 87% [really more like 75%] each direction.

....so that 60% efficiency at the generator doesn't look as good where the rubber hits the road.

Also - My dino-burner has over 250k miles on it -- will you get that from your battery pack? Are you sure?
 
In my opinion you buy a car because you will enjoy it. No other justification needed. Enjoy!
That's what I've done since my first car. Nothing boring, just raw power, style and more style. There's a sea of mundane mobiles out there I wouldn't give a second glance to. In the spring and summer with the top down, I get compliments at intersections, gas pumps, car washes, coffee shops and even the parking lot at the Dr's office. Beats rooting for a sports team any day.
 
Grid losses are in the 50% ballpark.

6% in the US, 8% world avg. Numbers are higher in less developed countries and can be much higher in conflict situations. I suspect the really bad numbers are mostly caused by electricity theft in dysfunctional countries, but a substandard grid certainly plays into it too.
https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/EG.ELC.LOSS.ZS

Reinhard
 
Wow, what a odd rationalization.....
Hard to beat the ease, portability and energy density of a gallon of gasoline.

My EV takes advantage of that. It has a small generator and a two gallon gas tank that can be used to recharge the battery (for about 60 to 80 miles of range). It takes much less time to add two gallons to the tank than it does to fast charge the batteries and sources of gasoline are more plentiful than fast charging stations.

But, I seldom use gasoline. Electricity is cheaper and I can recharge at home. Even though my car is an older one with less range, the range on a single charge is about double what I usually drive in a day.

Once you drive an EV you will be hooked. It a much more refined experience. An EV is quiet, acceleration is smooth (and quick), single-pedal driving with regeneriative braking seems more natural ... and you don't have to stop at a gas station every week on the way home to fill up.

And, yes, EVs have much less of an impact on the environment over their lifetime and the impact will go down as power generation switches to cleaner technologies. Your ICEV will tend to produce about the same emissions throughout its life, but when a power plant reduces its emissions, all of the EVs being charged from it now contribute less pollution.
 

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