LOC 35th Anniversary: LaserLoc(s)

My intro to mid power rocketry was with a LOC Lil' Nuke in the mid 90's. The kit, purchased from Galaxy Science & Hobby (RIP) in Appleton, WI was from the Ron & Deb Schultz era of Loc. Though not "huge", the beefy nature and quality components were impressive at the time! I was fortunate to own a few Loc kits during the Schultz era, MANY more during the Barry Lynch era, and well, with Jay & Dave running the show now...well it's a healthy relationship with LOC that makes for sometimes unhealthy relations with my wife!

My intro to high power rocketry actually came a bit sooner, in spring of '93 when I discovered the Nov/Dec '92 issue of High Power Rocketry (HPR) magazine in a grocery store. Kudos to Bruce Kelly for getting those into stores abroad! I ogled over many of the ads in there, especially over the LOC Custom ads. I've been fortunate to have built many of the "Custom" line of kits, but never any of the LaserLoc line...until now!

LOC 3.0 has all kinds of fun stuff planned for their 35th anniversary in 2020, including a release of some of the LaserLoc line, updated and upgraded to modernize a bit. Along those lines, here's an abbreviated build thread of the line, from the 38mm 1.5 up to the 54mm mount 3.1.

But first, a clip of the Loc Custom ad from that fateful first HPR mag to give you an idea what we're assembling:

Let's start with the 2.1 and the 2.1EA. Based on the hefty 2.14"/2.26" LOC airframe, this was perhaps the first minimum diameter 54mm rockets offered, making good use of single use, long burn motors of the time. Single use motors plus easy to build airframes equaled a cheap and easy way to get some respectable altitudes! Both the 2.1 and the 2.1EA came with payload sections; the EA provided the longer booster to accomodate the new-at-the-time K250 White Lightning.

I *think* we'll see a release of the 2.1EA soon. First up, fin can. The booster tube comes uniquely slotted for fins; with tabs that extend into the body tube but stop short of interfering with the motor. I decided to glass the fin area, so I began by peeling the glassine from the tube. Note that the kit version is lightly lasered around the perimeter of the fin to remove the glassine for filleting...NICE! Public service announcement: if you're trying to peel the glassine layer, it is super easy if you run a blade lightly along the depressed white spirals in between the darker spirals. Then peel!



Tacked the fins in place using West 105/205. The fins fit in the slots tightly. Not pictured, but I used a foam cutout for 120 degree fin alignment.



Fillets. West 105/206/Collodial Silica



I was apprehensive about the 1/8" 3 ply stock supplied with the 2.1EA. With the planned K250 load, I thought the fins could use some light reinforcing. I have lots of carbon cutoff pieces, and I enjoy "glassing" stuff, so I applied some triangular shaped carbon cloth. This is best done while the fillet epoxy is still green; ensuring a chemical bond. Cloth not fully wet out yet...



2 ounce plain weave E cloth was used over the top as a veil. Applied and allowed to cure. Spikey edges were trimmed with a utility knife while epoxy was in the green phase.



...and then we rest...

You know this gets two thumbs up from me! Love me a good retro cardboard winter rocket build.

Any chance LOC 3.0 will be able to offer turned wooden nose cones for these?

Onto the 3.1.

The ad with the photo of the LaserLoc 3.1 turned me on to boat tails. I always thought that rocket was sexy. Nevertheless, it was vaporware by the time I could've purchased it, and I certainly didn't have that nose cone or boat tail laying around to clone it. Alas, sometimes it's funny how things fall into place. Around the time when the Loc 3.0 crew was working on the design for the modernized 2.1, we stumbled upon a primer-less red painted 3" payload section in a mystery box from yesteryear that weighed a lot! I may be slow, but determined fairly quickly this was a solid wood cone mated to a section of heavy wall 3" tubing...a LL 3.1 cone! With the cone in hand, I knew it was time to put together a LL 3.1. Lacking the boat tail, but knowing Ron's original tail cones were approximately 1" long I set out to find a close match. Oddly enough, I came upon a stubby cone that we used for a day or two as a topper on the prototype Loc Saturn V. Actually the tip of a 7.67" cone mated to a 3" plastic coupler section, it forms a straight taper that works out about right. Though not Ron's hand turned original, once it's painted it should work just fine.

Cone in question:


Yadda yadda blah blah, parts and pieces begin to assemble the tail of the 3.1...


Fins being tacked. Old rough fin alignment cutout used. Building this can outside of the airframe.


Jim Jarvis once supplied an A-HA moment when he noted that an initial light skim coat of epoxy will actually save weight when applied pre-glassing, as it seals the surface enough and prevents a continuous soaking up of epoxy while one is performing a layup. Genius. An initial very light coat of epoxy over the cardboard and the fin root area to be bonded.



Fillets go on right after:


Haven't used this bias cut fiberglass tape since reinforcing the edges of the ol' Performance Rocketry 11.5" Nike Smoke. With the fibers on a 45 angle, it provides maximum fiber length for bonding adjoining surfaces, such as fins. This is good!


The tape is cut to length; root chord minus the part that sticks into the tail cone coupler. Applied while the fillets are still green. Again, chemical bond>mechanical bond. The mechanical bond for epoxy-to-epoxy isn't great...roughing up surfaces help, but still the bond is superior if we don't let it cure first.



The furry critters get a haircut after they've rested for a few hours. And then we rest...

DeeRoc29 said:

You know this gets two thumbs up from me! Love me a good retro cardboard winter rocket build.

Any chance LOC 3.0 will be able to offer turned wooden nose cones for these?

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Not likely. But I LOVE YOUR LaserLoc 3.1!!! Drool... Mine won't be as pretty, I promise!

Putting that old K400T in it at XPRS last Sept was a mistake. I knew it would be, but I did it anyway. Maybe watching your build thread will motivate me to rebuild!

DeeRoc29 said:

Putting that old K400T in it at XPRS last Sept was a mistake. I knew it would be, but I did it anyway. Maybe watching your build thread will motivate me to rebuild!

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Excellent! I'm sorry to hear about the K400T cato. It's a good year to rebuild! Hmmm...going to LDRS?

Very possibly. Whatcha thinking?

ECayemberg said:

My intro to mid power rocketry was with a LOC Lil' Nuke in the mid 90's. The kit, purchased from Galaxy Science & Hobby (RIP) in Appleton, WI was from the Ron & Deb Schultz era of Loc. Though not "huge", the beefy nature and quality components were impressive at the time! I was fortunate to own a few Loc kits during the Schultz era, MANY more during the Barry Lynch era, and well, with Jay & Dave running the show now...well it's a healthy relationship with LOC that makes for sometimes unhealthy relations with my wife!

My intro to high power rocketry actually came a bit sooner, in spring of '93 when I discovered the Nov/Dec '92 issue of High Power Rocketry (HPR) magazine in a grocery store. Kudos to Bruce Kelly for getting those into stores abroad! I ogled over many of the ads in there, especially over the LOC Custom ads. I've been fortunate to have built many of the "Custom" line of kits, but never any of the LaserLoc line...until now!

LOC 3.0 has all kinds of fun stuff planned for their 35th anniversary in 2020, including a release of some of the LaserLoc line, updated and upgraded to modernize a bit. Along those lines, here's an abbreviated build thread of the line, from the 38mm 1.5 up to the 54mm mount 3.1.

But first, a clip of the Loc Custom ad from that fateful first HPR mag to give you an idea what we're assembling:

Click to expand...

Love the context and background you give to these Loc 'revival' build threads. Currently reading Mark Canepa's excellent 'Large and Dangerous Rocket Ships' (2019). Your threads have a similar scholarly feel. Following with great interest!

My 3.1 met it's end when I flew it on a K420SS at the first BALLS launch in 1991. I do still have the solid basswood nose cone. I still have original 2.1 and 2.1EA in unopened bags

The original LL3.1 had dado slots for the fins. Full TTW is definitely a better way to go. I plan on doing the same for my rebuild.

DeeRoc29 said:

Very possibly. Whatcha thinking?

Click to expand...

Not exactly sure. Thinking about attending LDRS and doubly thinking it would be fun to do a retro rocket reunion.

Tim51 said:

Love the context and background you give to these Loc 'revival' build threads. Currently reading Mark Canepa's excellent 'Large and Dangerous Rocket Ships' (2019). Your threads have a similar scholarly feel. Following with great interest!

Click to expand...

Thanks Tim...I always try to tell some kind of a story! I just finished that read...and have re-read parts again. Love the book!!!

Rocketjunkie said:

My 3.1 met it's end when I flew it on a K420SS at the first BALLS launch in 1991. I do still have the solid basswood nose cone. I still have original 2.1 and 2.1EA in unopened bags

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Awesome Tom! The cones are THE feature of the original LaserLoc line. Can't help but to ogle over Ron's handiwork on the beautiful wood cones. Going to stain/varnish one or two of the ones I'm lucky enough to own...kind of a shame to paint them! Was the K420SS an offset core like the L750?

DeeRoc29 said:

The original LL3.1 had dado slots for the fins. Full TTW is definitely a better way to go. I plan on doing the same for my rebuild.

Click to expand...

Chanting "Rebuild, Rebuild Rebuild...."

Back to the 2.1 for a moment...

Besides being some of the first minimum, or near minimum diameter screamers in the late 80's and early 90's, the feature that made the LaserLoc's truly unique was the hand turned wood nosecones; beautiful pieces from Ron. The ogive shaped cones were solid, dense, and SMMOOOOOTHH!

A really nice 4.5:1 ogive tops off the 2.1EA. This new old cone is probably about 30 years old!!!


It's all Bill's fault....

I typically paint rockets in spring/summer/fall, and cover them in Monokote or Ultracote in winter. However, Bill posted photos of his Mega Magg being painted in the UP of Michigan a few days before Christmas. Feeling inspired, the LL 2.1 took a trip outside for some paint (well, primer anyway).

Pre-paint nekkid photo:



Note, the upcoming re-release of the LL 2.1EA is a touch longer than the original to allow for a more practical fit of dual deploy recovery gear. Being a semi-purist, I trimmed a few inches off the payload...I want the original external dimensions and I'll make the main laundry fit in there just fine.

To be continued...

"Semi-Purist" love it. almost t-shirt material right there!

ECayemberg said:

Not exactly sure. Thinking about attending LDRS and doubly thinking it would be fun to do a retro rocket reunion.

Click to expand...

That would be fun! The rebuild of my 3.1 is in the initial stages (read - tediously cutting out the boat tail off the old booster). Keep up the great build thread, Eric!

Love it. Gonna have to get a new Laser Loc to replace the one I lost. Someone say old kit reunion?

Man that 2.1 semi pure build is killing me! I really didn’t want to order another rocket but....this just may change my mind.

Theory said:

"Semi-Purist" love it. almost t-shirt material right there!

Click to expand...

I'd buy the shirt! I'm a snob when it comes to external dimensions, shape, form, etc. But totally okay if the internals are a bit different, or materials vary a bit. You'll see that on the 3.1 and 1.5 shortly...

DeeRoc29 said:

That would be fun! The rebuild of my 3.1 is in the initial stages (read - tediously cutting out the boat tail off the old booster). Keep up the great build thread, Eric!

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Excellent sir! Happy to have you here...feel free to share progress of the surgery!

Robert A Jablonski said:

Love it. Gonna have to get a new Laser Loc to replace the one I lost. Someone say old kit reunion?

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Welcome back, Bob! Yes, the LL 2.1 must be replaced! ...and maybe put the fins on the right way this time, too!

grouch said:

Man that 2.1 semi pure build is killing me! I really didn’t want to order another rocket but....this just may change my mind.

Click to expand...

Jarrett, I'll give Jay and Dave the nudge to get production rolling!

Semi-Purist Moment #1:
The sad reality is that I've had the LaserLoc family in the build queue for several years. I had been wanting to try out MAC canvas airframe since Mike began offering his products. Since his airframes are offered in 57" lengths, and since by my calculations, the 3.1 needs 57" of airframe, MAC airframe serves as the skin for my 3.1. Plus, I have a Sconnie L2000 white in APS 54/3300 hardware all ready to try out in this critter, so a LONG booster tube is needed! If all goes well, we'll pair the two up in the next week or two!

As shown earlier, the fin can for the 3.1 was built outside the airframe. Then the hearty unit epoxied into the airframe.



The original plan a few years back was to utilize the full 57" airframe in a contiguous length with a Wildman/CTI poly cone housing head end dual deploy. However, with the discovery of Ron's wood cone, the airframe was cut to allow standard dual deploy with a more typical avbay. A paper wrapping served as a drilling guide...circumference divided by 3 or 6 to get the holes in the right place. No switch band, just a single arming hole at the body joint for access to a screw switch or twist and tape wires.



Primer, filler, sandpaper
....And then everybody's favorite. Prime, fill, sand, repeat. Weather has been unseasonably warm...hoping to get some color on the 2.1 and 3.1 before some potential test flights this weekend!

2.1:





3.1:



That's all for now...color coats coming soon...and maybe a quick 1.5 build...

Both looking good sir, I always enjoy me a good ECayemberg build thread.

rfjustin said:

Both looking good sir, I always enjoy me a good ECayemberg crack pimping thread.

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Fixed it for you.

rfjustin said:

Both looking good sir, I always enjoy me a good ECayemberg build thread.

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Thank you sir! Hope to see you this weekend or the next!

grouch said:

Fixed it for you.

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LOL. I used to dance under that name!

Laser Loc 1.5

Honestly, probably the Laser in the line that I'm least excited about...but it's a necessary evil in order to complete the collection, so here goes.

Let's start with a field trip to the Loc shop. Some of Ron's originals still reside in the collection, the Laser Loc 1.5 being one of them! You can always tell a Ron-built rocket for a few reasons. Finishes are smooth and consistent, stickers have that certain Ron look and feel to them, and they are constructed with green epoxy! Olive drab green...lovely!

The one from the catalog ad in the early 90's!


Down from the rafters for a closer look:


Playing with the original LL1.5 got the juices flowing. Verified dimensions, licked the green epoxy, and away we go!

The original 1.5 had about 34" of tube, with about 9.5" of that being payload section. I'm opting for a single length of continuous 34" tubing for several reasons...it's simpler, stronger, lighter, and easier. Perhaps most importantly, I've done electronics bays in 1.5" tubing before...NOT my idea of fun and I have no intention of doing again anytime soon. Without electronics up top, I'd rather have the option for longer motors and skip incorporating an unused "dummy" payload section. K.I.S.S. Streamer recovery. This really becomes a quintessential 3FNC rocket!

Fins are cut from G10 stock, beveled, and tacked in place after excavating the glassine from root/fillet areas.



After the 5 minute tack epoxy has cured, the fins are filleted with West 105/Carl's 205/USC silica.



The ol' epoxy blob the nylon string cord mount is implemented on the forward end, a nice hardwood cone is installed, and wham bam, we have a naked Laser Loc 1.5 in record time.

I need to stop taking photos of *things* atop the chest freezer; the lighting is awful and they always turn out horrible. Oh well, what I've got for now:



Priming and painting of this lil' hot rod will come somewhere down the line...I've got other priorities in the meantime!

I know it is an old thread but does anyone know the highest altitude achieved with Laser LOCs?

Alex,

Thank you for resurrecting the thread. I guess I didn't realize I never finished it...DOH! Finished rocket photos coming soon...

AlexBruccoleri said:

I know it is an old thread but does anyone know the highest altitude achieved with Laser LOCs?

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I'll have to dig through some back issues of HPR magazine... I recall seeing visual tracking from the early days of LDRS and Black Rock where Chuck Rogers was tracking LaserLoc 2.1's to north of 20k'.