First Loc kit for me. Questions.

Would you guys and gals feel comfortable using Cotronics 4525 IP on a Loc kit? (It’s expensive but I already have a crap ton of it on hand and it’s not expired for next two months.) I just never dealt with wood and cardboard kits before much outside of LPR Estes stuff. I also have some rocketpoxy on hand. Not trying to start an epoxy war thread on which is better. But if you had either of these and a loc kit what would you use? If you prefer something else to put loc kits together then list below.

Normally I’ve messed with fiberglass, CF, and now canvass phenolic. And as far as motors I plan on staging two H’s to it or maybe an I to and H nothing too crazy.

Andrew_ASC said:

Would you guys and gals feel comfortable using Cotronics 4525 IP on a Loc kit? (It’s expensive but I already have a crap ton of it on hand and it’s not expired for next two months.) I just never dealt with wood and cardboard kits before much outside of LPR Estes stuff. I also have some rocketpoxy on hand. Not trying to start an epoxy war thread on which is better. But if you had either of these and a loc kit what would you use? If you prefer something else to put loc kits together then list below.

Normally I’ve messed with fiberglass, CF, and now canvass phenolic. And as far as motors I plan on staging two H’s to it or maybe an I to and H nothing too crazy.

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I looked the Cotronics 4525 IP up and it seems to me like it would work. What kind of a working time does it have?

Greg Furtman said:

What kind of a working time does it have?

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5 minutes when heated to high temperature from website. It’s much longer at room temp. They say cures in 16-24 hours at room temp. I would say at least 30min to 1 hour working time. Can’t remember off the top of my head it’s decent though. It starts getting thick slowly. It’s creamier than rocket poxy but not as runny. Also has superior specs on heat and tensile strength etc. 4700 was the oven cure stuff that never had a working time at all.

Any epoxy is more than enough for the LOC kit. Yellow wood glue is the minimum and its stronger than the tubes and fins. I have LOC kits with nothing but yellow wood glue that have gone up on beefy J motors and others have done Ms.

heada said:

Any epoxy is more than enough for the LOC kit. Yellow wood glue is the minimum and its stronger than the tubes and fins. I have LOC kits with nothing but yellow wood glue that have gone up on beefy J motors and others have done Ms.

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Appreciate that advice. Thanks man.

I'm thinking about getting the exact same 2-stage combo you're doing. Honestly, even as a self-professed glue snob, I'd use yellow wood glue. As stated earlier, it'll be the strongest part of the structure. Maybe I'd use epoxy and microballoons for cosmetic fillets. But Titebond all the way, otherwise.

heada said:

Any epoxy is more than enough for the LOC kit. Yellow wood glue is the minimum and its stronger than the tubes and fins. I have LOC kits with nothing but yellow wood glue that have gone up on beefy J motors and others have done Ms.

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I agree on this build process. Why deal with epoxies when wood glue works just fine. It's not as messy and not as toxic and it keeps the weight down, which allows you to fly on smaller motors and get great performance. The only time I use epoxy is when I am bonding to materials that are different from one another. I also never ever use CA on wood and card board, always wood glue.

Can anyone on this forum build a kit without building it like a tank??

I prefer Titebond myself most of the time. Titebond II for the main structural adhesive and then if the mood strikes I'll do Titebond Mold and Trim glue for the cosmetic part of the fillets. Other times I may use whatever epoxy I have on hand to make the fillets pretty. Which I use for that part could have something to do with the phase of the moon...idk.

I prefer epoxy also. Tried some of that titebond quick and thick, it did NOT hold. Was not during a flight at least, only a ground test.
And by the way, I build tank busters!

DAllen said:

I prefer Titebond myself most of the time. Titebond II for the main structural adhesive and then if the mood strikes I'll do Titebond Mold and Trim glue for the cosmetic part of the fillets. Other times I may use whatever epoxy I have on hand to make the fillets pretty. Which I use for that part could have something to do with the phase of the moon...idk.

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Between rocket building and woodworking, I go through about 2 gallons of TB II every year. Its great stuff on paper/wood kits but you have to pay attention to the fast grab. I've had couplers get stuck while I was inserting them with Titebond II. Once it grabs, you're not getting it to move much at all ever again.

Either yellow wood glue or regular epoxy.

If you have the fancy stuff, and don't mind using it up on a cardboard kit, go for it.. should work the same.

I must admit, I have no experience with the Cotronics or Rocektpoxy, but have built a number of kits with BSI, ELmer's Lepages, and West systems.

Adding to the echo chamber, I highly suggest not using the Cotronics on your Loc kit unless it's the only adhesive you've got, and even then I'd suggest going to lowe's/home depot/Walmart, and grabbing a tube of TBII.

Rocketpoxy is decent performance on fiberglass especially for cost its pretty economical imo like peanut butter. Have pushed it M1.4-1.7 ranges. Got it on several subsonic builds and something super to m1.4. Beyond that is when you want cotronics or other high dollar epoxy for high tensile at stupidly high temps like for Mach 2.4 plus flights which predict over 500 degrees Fahrenheit in theory. BSI I’ve found it useful for bonding certain materials that are plastic like in nature to Kevlar that rocket poxy failed to hold. Not as strong on specs as rocket poxy but it’s slow cure form somehow bonds more varying materials I’ve noticed.

Anyways I’ll stick to epoxy since I’ve got it and letting it sit until it expires would be wasteful even though it’s overkill and over priced lol. I don’t Forsee any more Mach 2 plus builds in this two months time period. I appreciate all advice. Might be stupid but I’ll just use what I got. Was initially worried about the materials bonding with contronics given they weren’t what I normally work with.

If I get more loc kits in the future would go with yellow wood glue or tb2 from this advice. I’d be tempted to go buy TB2 but I got excessive amounts of cotronics that need to be used or it goes bad supposedly lol.

I've got a Wildman Mach 2 arriving on Friday, I'll take that stuff off your hands and even send you a bottle of Elmers for it

I've built a few LOC kits with 1980s vintage Devcon 5-minute epoxy, and some are still flying. EZI withstands an I150.

But I think you have a nice chance to experiment with some very good epoxy, so go for it!

David Schwantz said:

I've got a Wildman Mach 2 arriving on Friday, I'll take that stuff off your hands and even send you a bottle of Elmers for it

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You do realize the mach-2 kit comes with high temp epoxy included, used for all test flights?

Yup, but I would try some of that fancy stuff that Andrew has noooo problem.

Andrew_ASC said:

Would you guys and gals feel comfortable using Cotronics 4525 IP on a Loc kit? (It’s expensive but I already have a crap ton of it on hand and it’s not expired for next two months.) I just never dealt with wood and cardboard kits before much outside of LPR Estes stuff. I also have some rocketpoxy on hand. Not trying to start an epoxy war thread on which is better. But if you had either of these and a loc kit what would you use? If you prefer something else to put loc kits together then list below.

Normally I’ve messed with fiberglass, CF, and now canvass phenolic. And as far as motors I plan on staging two H’s to it or maybe an I to and H nothing too crazy.

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Given your options, I'd use the 4525 over the Rocketpoxy, as the 4525 will soak into the cardboard and wood more thoroughly. Both will be overkill as adhesives, but will work fine. The base materials (paper and plywood) will be the weakest link with any epoxy. And yes, wood glues, and even polyurethane glues...such as Gorilla Glue work well too. Lots of options.

Big fan of Loc rockets here!

ECayemberg said:

Big fan of Loc rockets here!

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Say it isn't so!

caveduck said:

I've built a few LOC kits with 1980s vintage Devcon 5-minute epoxy, and some are still flying. EZI withstands an I150.

But I think you have a nice chance to experiment with some very good epoxy, so go for it!

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Flew my extended EZI65 on a J250 for level2 cert no problem.

ECayemberg said:

Big fan of Loc rockets here!

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That's got to be one of the prime forum understatements

I titebonded some naked mailing tubes on a j270w with a Big Daddy NC. No need to overbuild.