Reloadable casings

Hi,

I got myself set up with 38mm and 54mm CTI casings because ceasoroni had some long burn motors I wanted to fly. Recently I flew a 5 grain 54mm long burn motor and the case came back with a bulge in the top end. I am wondering what your thoughts are on the best way to go casing wise. Why did you choose the motor company you did? CTI, AT, Loki? I am about to try and take advantage of some year end sales.

I chose CTI initially as that's all our local vendor sold. Moved on to Loki after CTI had the fire because CTI reloads were had to obtain until they got back into production and we had a Loki vendor come to site once or twice a year. Have also started flying at another field where the only vendor carries AT. Still fly all three motors.

I chose Aerotech for some 38/240 casings and initially the 38/480. I have gladly flown the crap out of the 240 casing because it has no hazmat load H130W. (They also have some no haz I and J loads). I have some CTI Pro24-6G for MD rocket seemed like their loads were better in that size. Finally I snagged a Loki 54/2800 complete set and extended bulk head pieces with internal two turn snap ring for the Loki L1040 LR reload since it’s like AT L1000W DMS size but it has 3707 NS and burns for 3.7s. Loki makes some wicked hot reloads in some casing sizes. Heck they even got a 54mm M and a 38mm K. I say fly all the brands you can and enjoy the variety. I used to be a CTI hater but after winning national comps with them they proved their worth in 29mm form. I just prefer the Loki and AT rear metal closures in 38 and up. At 24 and 29mm I don’t mind CTI.

CTI: Flown two. Bought the cases used, got the 5G for almost nothing.
Pro54 5Grain K600. After flight the casing was stuck in the MMT. Took two of us to get it out and damaged the rocket
Pro38 1grain G115. Motor CATO. Didn't hurt the rocket but still...
Easiest to assemble, lots of variety.
I have no desire to purchase any more of their hardware....maybe a Pro54 1grain (and less likely Pro98 1grain) because I have a thing for 1grain motors
All require HAZMAT to ship. Smaller loads seem really pricey.

Loki: Flown several. Bought the 38/240 used, the 38/120 was gifted to me.
I had one 38/120 cocktail (G69 maybe) where the ejection charge went off while the motor was burning, melting the rocket.
Easy to assemble -hardest part is the delay with all the Orings, not as much variety, requires tools to assemble, motors are "angrier" than the other guys, snap ring hardware is simple, reusable nozzles need cleaned-not difficult, doesn't include starters, 38mm is smallest they make
Hope to get into their 54mm stuff and would love to L3 on their 75mm. Still want a 38/480 as well.
Many 38mm can ship without HAZMAT
Loki Cocktail is always a crowd pleaser
38/120s come in 2 packs, are cheap, good variety, and are stupidly fun. Lol

Aerotech: Flown too many to count. Most hardware was purchased used which is why I have so many. Flown 29mm F through 54mm J
Had one 29/40-120 F reload, forget the designation, where the ejection charge went off while the motor was burning, severely damaging the rocket
Most difficult to assemble and clean-but not actually difficult-hardest part is the delay, good variety, can be bought at discounts
Still want the 54/1706, though I keep passing on some good deals.
Many 29mm and 38mm ship without HAZMAT
Mojave Green is usually a crowd pleaser, buy extra starters

My vendor, Chris Short, carries all three. He comes to two of our four annual launches.

I like the convenience of CTI stuff and hused the certification special which got me into them. I am slowly acquiring AT hardware since it expands my options.

For long Pro54 reloads, i like to follow JimJ's advice and put a bead of epoxy at the liner/fwd closure interface. Cheap insurance against a failure mode thay bites occasionally.

I buy most of my motors online since vendors don’t always show. Plus launches are like 16 hour drive type event soooo yeah. Anything hazmat in L1 I dislike unless it just has vastly superior performance to justify the haz fee. Usually because the cost of propellant in H class motor is equal to a hazmat charge. By the time I get to L2 motors I’ll just eat a Haz fee and accept it as part of the hobby. By playing with no haz high power loads it allowed me to get my feet wet more in the hobby before taking the plunge on more expensive motors etc. Theres something totally epic about ordering high power reloads without hazmat.

Thanks people. I'm getting that many of you fly several brands. I'm thinking I need to quit being so cheap and buy some casings from other manufacturers

Highly recommend you get an AT 38/240 or 360, or a Loki 38/480 casing no haz and fly the crap out of of it. Online order in bulk at will. I think there are two Loki J loads no haz and also AT makes like a 38/1080 casing with J motor no haz. Once your addicted to cheap no haz loads that ship usps you will be buying stuff to fly L2 or even L3 that year...

For 24/29/38, both AT and CTI. Wildman, our onsite vendor carries both. I prefer AT, as I like to have more control over the motor assembly, and for the loads I fly, AT is less expensive. I use CTI mostly for characteristics I can’t get with AT - for example the H54 long burn, or for clustering 24mm, as they start much faster than AT. I don’t like the plastic integrated rear closure for Pro38, though, wish they’d switch that.

I almost exclusively fly Aerotech for ground starts and Cesaroni for airstarts. 9 times out of 10 that's just because Aerotech are a few bucks cheaper since assembly is required, which I enjoy. You can't beat Cesaroni for airstarts due to the ematch and starter pellet. Vendors near me carry those two brands.

I'd talk to your vendor about the bulge if you haven't already, I think they should replace that casing.

BTW, you should be able to get a warranty replacement for the case.

Our TARC team standardized on CTI a while back, mainly because we could prep all of the motors we would fly that day while in a warm shop rather than the field. Because we had hazmat orders coming every few months, adding a few more on for me was pretty easy, so I’m mainly a CTI person. Also, my time in the field is pretty precious, so having cases/motors that you can turn around quickly is very helpful.

I have bought hardware from various places over the years. I have no idea where the case with the bulge came from. Should I contact CTI directly?

Yeah Boatsgeek brings up a good point with CTI. The CTI prep time is very low since the motor is preassembled in a liner with ejection charge attached. You literally push the entire motor reload unit into the casing and screw a aft closure on. The Aerotech reloads I usually don’t fly multiple times in a launch session usually because in those cases you have a bunch of o-rings, washers, grains, and need to assemble the delay element yourself into forward closure which I find best not to do at the field but it can be done in the field it’s just more time consuming than CTI prep. Honestly it’s the design of cleaning Loki and AT cases that don’t make those as user friendly for multiple flights same day in my humble opinion.

Also the CTI cases are very disposable like friendly you slide the inner reload assembly out and pop a new one in within seconds. After an Aerotech or Loki is burned you’ll want like a glasses repair kit screwdriver to scrape all the burnt gunk out of its forward closure before you can reload those kinds of cases again. Some Loki loads require glue bonding grains and just aren’t practical for in field reloading.

Finally most rocketeers I see bring one rocket maybe a case or two already prepped. Or they have many types of rockets with one reload/case each already prepped. I see a bunch of flights on multiple rockets and hardly ever somebody flying the same rocket over and over in high power unless it’s like a DMS single use motor or somebody flying those composite low/mid power reloads which are well cheaper per flight.

rocketcharlie said:

I have bought hardware from various places over the years. I have no idea where the case with the bulge came from. Should I contact CTI directly?

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Worth a shot to shout out to CTI! What’s the worst they say no?

I have seen people put the CTI reload into a rocket..

3.. 2.. oh crap, forgot to put it in the case!! 1.. and we have a fire-y fountain!

I'm an AT guy. A friend & I share cases. Reloads are cheaper, but do take longer to assemble.

Whatever case you buy, buy a sized bigger, and get the spacer system. I almost always fly with a spacer in ether my 29 or 38 cases.. If I recall, CTI do have spacers..

Go with Loki. No hazmat from G-I motors, much more reliable than Aerotech and CTI, you support a smaller fish, more impulse per dollar. Downside is they don’t come with igniters but any will do.

rocketcharlie said:

I have bought hardware from various places over the years. I have no idea where the case with the bulge came from. Should I contact CTI directly?

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I would contact CTI. According to my past experience they will want you to deal with a vendor first but if you don't remember the original vendor I would guess they would just work with whatever vendor you take it up with.

Andrew_ASC said:

Worth a shot to shout out to CTI! What’s the worst they say no?

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I have a very good relationship with my motor vendors. What I've found in the past is that for clear warranty issues, my vendor will give me a case from their stock, and backfill their stock with the CTI warranty replacement. I've rarely had to deal with CTI directly.

Aresenal,

That sounds like a good way to go. I wondering how Loki can do G, H, & I without hazmat when others can not.

It’s how they package the fuel grains below 30 grams each. CTI is a self contained prepacked unit so they can’t. Some aerotech loads are also has free.

They’ve got some J even hazmat free now.

As far as building motors in the field or anywhere actually. I am a guy who likes to build things, so I would actually prefer to do that. I know building a motor at a windy launch site would be a pain in the rear tho.

You can build them inside the car just need a clean sterile place without wind to do it at. I like building aerotech motors. It’s just more satisfying for some reason that inserting a prepackaged reload into a casing. The advantage of building your own motor in my opinion is you get to once over inspect it all for cracks or dents or manufacturer flaws where on other reloads they don’t even give you instructions on how to take them apart.

I have a Tupperware type container (12" x 12" x 2" deep) to build in. keeps things organised, and stops things rolling off (blowing off) the table. Also, this 'build tray' sits on the instructions, so they don't blow away!

I find rocketry is too much fun at times and feel I need to punish myself accordingly. So I like to tape the picture instructions to the table and then chase around wind blown O-rings and insulators for a bit. It's also better if the liner lands in the grass a few times before assembly, but after being greased.

dr wogz said:

I have a Tupperware type container (12" x 12" x 2" deep) to build in. keeps things organised, and stops things rolling off (blowing off) the table. Also, this 'build tray' sits on the instructions, so they don't blow away!

Click to expand...

...and it’s always the tiny stuff that seems to roll off the table. [emoji23]

Great idea!

Funny stuff Mikey, I think we have all been there

Fly whatever you can get without HAZMAT. Loki stuff, though expensive, is seriously well-made and quite pleasurable and easy to use, IMO. Well, not as easy as CTI, but then you aren't paying for a new nozzle with every reload.

What happened to the title? Reading 'Reloafable casings' gave me a chuckle.