The N10,000 question

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John Williams

John Williams

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So this motor is crazy I've watched a few videos of rockets flying on these many of the rockets blow apart. Does this happens because the motor just tends to be unstable and the motor comes apart? Or is it because the rocket itself can't withstand the G force causing the airframe to fail. Normally in the videos you hear a bang and just see fragments and sometimes a parachute or two. Also I guess as someone who has never built a rocket that big why do people roll the dice and use this motor especially when it seems there is a fair chance it will completely destroy all your hard work? I'm inexperienced so please tell me your thoughts have you used one? Did it work right? Are you worried about blowing up the rocket?
 
John Williams said:
Does this happens because the motor just tends to be unstable and the motor comes apart? Or is it because the rocket itself can't withstand the G force causing the airframe to fail.
Click to expand...

Usually it's because the rocket can't withstand the thrust.

Why? Because they're awesome- that's why :)


Now if you want the real rocket killer- you want the N5800 :)
 
Lol that's awesome but any rocket that can carry a n 10000 has to be expensive right? Why is the n5800 a rocket killer?


djs said:
Usually it's because the rocket can't withstand the thrust.

Why? Because they're awesome- that's why :)


Now if you want the real rocket killer- you want the N5800 :)
Click to expand...
 
John Williams said:
Lol that's awesome but any rocket that can carry a n 10000 has to be expensive right? Why is the n5800 a rocket killer?
Click to expand...
10347N10000-P
Average Thrust: 10219.3N
Maximum Thrust: 11564.5N
Total impulse: 10347.0Ns
Burn Time: 1.0s
Isp: 203s

20146N5800-P
Average Thrust: 5774.1N
Maximum Thrust: 8034.6N
Total impulse: 20145.7Ns
Burn Time: 3.5s
Isp: 228s

The 5800 has 75% max thrust of the n10000, 60% average thrust, but burns 3.5x as long. Assuming both are in reasonably low mass carbon fiber airframes, the top speed and maximum aerodynamic pressure goes to the 5800.
 
dhbarr said:
10347N10000-P
Average Thrust: 10219.3N
Maximum Thrust: 11564.5N
Total impulse: 10347.0Ns
Burn Time: 1.0s
Isp: 203s

20146N5800-P
Average Thrust: 5774.1N
Maximum Thrust: 8034.6N
Total impulse: 20145.7Ns
Burn Time: 3.5s
Isp: 228s

The 5800 has 75% max thrust of the n10000, 60% average thrust, but burns 3.5x as long. Assuming both are in reasonably low mass carbon fiber airframes, the top speed and maximum aerodynamic pressure goes to the 5800.[/QUOTE

I just convinced my wife to let me buy the ultimate Wildman kit if I blow it up it will be a cold day before she lets me buy another so I won't be going with either for these babies for my level 3 attempt
Click to expand...
 
I have flown both in my Ultimate Endeavor and Ultimate Wildman. Built normal, both motors are beasts. If ya know what your doing, success is pretty much guaranteed, but there is always the chance the rocket godz think different.
Ya could have bought an 6in. Ultimate Wildman, for 390.00 BF so no...not expensive at all.

We did a 4 way drag race on N-10,000 ...burn out at 770ft ,mach 1.6 altimeter pegged at 77g's...coasted to 12,800 ft.weighed 56lbs.
N-5800 was 12 way drag race hit 24,800ft weighed 68lbs mach 1.6 all rockets were Ultimate Wildman.

Both races were instant on pixie pellets...if ya blinked ya missed it.
4 N-10,000 at once sounded like motars firing! Gave ya goosebumps! They don't roar...they actually scream, really they scream. Too bas ya will never hear one, since no longer made.

Built stock Wildman 6in. can take any motor ya stick in the pipe. My l-3 has 22 flight on it all M's and N's.

Never worried about any thing failing and I won both races! Although the Nike on left in 4 way drag was garbage bag recovery... it had plywood fins...lol

The N-10,000 nozzles was destroyed by the massive thrust. There is nothing that compares to huge rockets, mass launched on brute force motors...all at once. Flames longer than the rockets.
The reason I fly...too bad drag races are taboo now.


m100_4697.jpgIMG_8190.jpg100_4714.jpgMWP9053.jpg DSC_0236_2.jpg
 
Last edited:
blackjack2564 said:
4 N-10,000 at once sounded like motars firing! Gave ya goosebumps! They don't roar...they actually scream, really they scream. Too bas ya will never hear one, since no longer made.
Click to expand...

I remember the 2xN10000 drag race at MWP12. When the motors lit it was like a *whump* that I felt in my chest. Started my obsession with vmax motors. Hopefully CTI can bring them back sometime in the future.
 
djs said:
I remember the 2xN10000 drag race at MWP12. When the motors lit it was like a *whump* that I felt in my chest. Started my obsession with vmax motors. Hopefully CTI can bring them back sometime in the future.
Click to expand...
Why did they stop making them?
 
John Williams said:
What fire?
Click to expand...
CTI manufactures propellant for a variety of industrial and government uses. Rocket motors are just a side business.

A few years ago, there was a fire in their manufacturing plant, and the gentleman who also oversees the hobby rocket motor production was severely injured. CTI took a long time to get back in full production, and they have not produced any VMAX since then.
 
Bat-mite said:
CTI manufactures propellant for a variety of industrial and government uses. Rocket motors are just a side business.

A few years ago, there was a fire in their manufacturing plant, and the gentleman who also oversees the hobby rocket motor production was severely injured. CTI took a long time to get back in full production, and they have not produced any VMAX since then.
Click to expand...
Oh I see that sucks
 
Sitting still to Mach 2.3 in 1.4 seconds! Heavy acceleration; that was fun!

It was first time Dr. J was able to see the O25k fly! His presence was a blessing, yet added to the nervous anxiousness of the flight! I miss having Jeroen around!

The motor holder (rocket) was purpose built for this flight; all other airframe components were recycled for different projects afterward. If anyone wants a set of ridiculous fins that'll take an O25,000, let me know!
 
ECayemberg said:
If anyone wants a set of ridiculous fins that'll take an O25,000, let me know!
Click to expand...

Only if they can be attached to a turkey....

I GOT 3 MINUTES TO GET DINNER READY AND NEED TO ROAST THIS TURKEY!!
 
ECayemberg said:
Sitting still to Mach 2.3 in 1.4 seconds! Heavy acceleration; that was fun!

It was first time Dr. J was able to see the O25k fly! His presence was a blessing, yet added to the nervous anxiousness of the flight! I miss having Jeroen around!

The motor holder (rocket) was purpose built for this flight; all other airframe components were recycled for different projects afterward. If anyone wants a set of ridiculous fins that'll take an O25,000, let me know!
Click to expand...


Eric, what did that thing weigh, like 165 lbs or something?
 
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Here's a video link to the N-10000 drag race at LDRS-29 out at the Lucerne Dry Lake Bed. My rocket's second from the left with the Red nose cone, then white section, black section, white section and the booster section was unpainted. I wasn't the first off the pad, but I got the highest altitude that successfully recovered anyway. I can't quite remember my final altitude but it was just short of 15K. Mine was also the only rocket in this race that didn't use the "all thread" method of holding an Altimeter bay together. I never did like that style. Just seems too fragile to me.

Yes, this motor is totally wild and wooly though I will completely admit that I'd love to try this rocket on the N-5800.

The last motor to lift off the Pad was Crazy Jim's. But his rocket did NOT have an N-10000 in it. The "Wildman" Tim Lehr only had 6 of the reloads available so Jim flew on a different motor. And if memory serves Tim's was one of the "failed recovery" flights on this one. But I don't think it wasn't a motor cato.

Hey Jim... do you remember what motor it was?

Brad
 
Yes I do...CTI 75mm Skidmark.

By the way they were lit with BKNO3 pellets, so fast the rockets were gone BEFORE the pellet igniters finished burning. look at the screenshot, extreme left...see the bright green dot?

That's the pellet/igniter still burning AFTER rocket are gone. To put it in perspective those pellets burn out in .33 seconds!

Screen Shot 2019-12-05 at 12.57.48 PM.png Screen Shot 2019-12-05 at 12.57.48 PM.png
 
Last edited:
Binder Design said:
Thrust is perfectly centered, flight was not perfectly vertical. It was recovered by others some distance away. I was just the motor builder. Perks yo.
Click to expand...
She was recovered 4 miles from the launch pad lying peacefully inside a cattle corral inside the town of Brothers, Oregon by Dave Holloway, my nine year old daughter and me. We found her after several radio triangulation reads and dodging the skeletal skull remains of cattle in the mesas of the high desert before darkness and the coyotes closed in on us.
 

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