Call for online civility!

It is the season for family gatherings and many of the crumpy curmudgeons on the forum will be in rare form on the forum. I am making a request of all of you. Let us all be more civil and attract users to our hobby and forum. I personally will cut the sarcasm that is a part of my southern and midwestern upbringing.

Of course, this is good advice to follow all year 'round...

And everyone please remember that moderators are paying attention to the posts. As the famous rocketeer, Dalton, said in Road House:

"Ask him to walk, be nice. If he won't walk, walk him, but be nice. If you can't walk him, one of the others will help you and you will both be nice. I want you to remember that it's the job, it's nothing personal."

prfesser said:

And everyone please remember that moderators are paying attention to the posts. As the famous rocketeer, Dalton, said in Road House:

"Ask him to walk, be nice. If he won't walk, walk him, but be nice. If you can't walk him, one of the others will help you and you will both be nice. I want you to remember that it's the job, it's nothing personal."

Click to expand...

I love that movie.

Forums are a great way to learn and expand hobbies but sadly they can go down hill fast
I have seen this happen to an astronomy forum, it's very sad.

Once that happens the nice folks and beginners leave.
I don't say anything that I would not say to someone's face anywhere on the internet.

I like this place
Some really helpful and fun folks here

This forum is extremely civil compared to most. #1 reason IMHO is moderation, and a community that stands behind the moderators. As long as these stay intact, this forum will remain a friendly and supportive place.

neil_w said:

This forum is extremely civil compared to most. #1 reason IMHO is moderation, and a community that stands behind the moderators. As long as these stay intact, this forum will remain a friendly and supportive place.

Click to expand...

True. My college teams forums is very adult and very uncivil.

I ventured into another forum and wow, it was shocking to witness the incivility on there. I quickly un-joined asap.

Even posting a simple YouTube comment, like, "Wow, that was a great video," can get you attacked by some hate-monger. Crazy!

This is a nice forum overall. Good people. And I've seen some that will curl your hair as their regular postings.
But this is a good season to be a little more nice.

Don't forget that it can be pretty hard to discern emotion through text. There have been plenty of times I've interpreted a post as rude or aggressive (as I'm sure others have done with my posts ), when in reality it was just my perception based on how it was worded. It helps to be tactful and polite, but working to clarify the user's intent can clear up a lot of conflicts that may have otherwise escalated into something less than friendly.

KC3KNM said:

Don't forget that it can be pretty hard to discern emotion through text. There have been plenty of times I've interpreted a post as rude or aggressive (as I'm sure others have done with my posts ), when in reality it was just my perception based on how it was worded. It helps to be tactful and polite, but working to clarify the user's intent can clear up a lot of conflicts that may have otherwise escalated into something less than friendly.

Click to expand...

True. Sometimes blunt is interpreted as an attack or rudeness.

It is interesting that less civil behavior is on the rise as our culture crawls under the online rock and avoid face to face interaction more and more.

I personally can’t stand going into Walmart any more. Is this a sign of our online habits driving a loss of social skills?

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5089744/

cwbullet said:

Is this a sign of our online habits driving a loss of social skills?

Click to expand...

I tend to agree with this.

Making a choice to remove harmful agents in one's life in today's world becomes imperative. I quit drinking, smoking and drugs back in '90 and haven't had a desire since. Getting rid of the television, radio and all subscriptions has done a world of wonders in cleaning the so called closet out. We don't need this dead weight anymore. The level of peace and security couldn't be greater. As a people we've become extremely co-dependent on jumping in a pile of trash. Of course you'll feel 'dirty' once you brush yourself off.

I have no idea what kind of world my kids will inherit, but I fear for them.

This is the only forum I participate on. I like the fact that it is moderated and a lot of shenanigans that occur on other sites aren't tolerated here. I'm sure being a moderator is a huge challenge, and I appreciate those who take that on. I do think that folks can take a moment to review what they've written from an 'outside' perspective to see if they can make it less likely to be misinterpreted. And don't post late at night after a few beverages that may cloud your civility filter!

My biggest complaint about this or any similar forum is when someone asks a question and a member replies in spite of no experience or insight into the question, often just taking up space in the thread. I would remove those types of replies. Not a popular opinion I'm sure.

So thanks to the mods for keeping this site a friendly place to be.


Tony

cwbullet said:

It is interesting that less civil behavior is on the rise as our culture crawls under the online rock and avoid face to face interaction more and more.

I personally can’t stand going into Walmart any more. Is this a sign of our online habits driving a loss of social skills?

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5089744/

Click to expand...

A relevant quote from "Friday" by Robert Heinlein, written over 30 years ago. May or may not be true, but I find it ominous.

“...a dying culture invariably exhibits personal rudeness. Bad manners. Lack of consideration for others in minor matters. A loss of politeness, of gentle manners, is more significant than is a riot...This symptom is especially serious in that an individual displaying it never thinks of it as a sign of ill health but as proof of his/her strength.”

prfesser said:

some character in Heinlein's Novel Friday said:

“...a dying culture invariably exhibits personal rudeness. Bad manners. Lack of consideration for others in minor matters. A loss of politeness, of gentle manners, is more significant than is a riot...This symptom is especially serious in that an individual displaying it never thinks of it as a sign of ill health but as proof of his/her strength.”

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

I understand, I think, the point of posting that, but it occurs to me that all cultures are dying cultures. Culture is not static -- until it is dead.

Manners change. The definition of courtesy changes and it is astonishingly difficult to learn new codes (and unlearn old habits of speech and deportment).

I spend a lot of time with 20-somethings. Their behavior towards me seems outrageous (in that I am often outraged), until I examine their behavior towards one another.

I learned my personal manners before the introduction of the Walkman and I came of age just as the word "netiquette" was entering the language.

My expectations are out-of-date on two fronts:

1) I expect my students ignore their devices when confronted by a live human being IRL (they don't -- the phone always takes precedence). For my students, earbuds in ears function as a "do not disturb" sign -- and I have seen flashes of real anger when that signal is ignored. I am often very rude to my students in this connection.

2) I expect my students to have internalized rules for on-line interactions that I learned on usenet, but which are meaningless -- or contrary to the business model -- for twitter/snapchat/instagram/TikTok/etc.

And it isn't really generational. I have colleagues -- both older and younger -- who are not bothered (or not bothered as much as I am) by having a student casually (and thoughtlessly) pull out a phone to check on something unrelated to the conversation while they are being addressed by a classmate or an instructor.

I also have colleagues -- older and younger -- who struggle with new expectations of courtesy and personal respect; like preferred gender pronouns and the "singular they"

I won't set foot in Walmart's parking lot, let alone the store.
It has nothing to do with being Social or not (Although some things you see posted online from within Walmart makes you wonder about some people), but more so the lies they advertise to put American's to work when the store is full of nothing but Overseas Manufactured Crap. And, the owner's political views...

Consider this quote:
The children now love luxury; they have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place of exercise. Children are now tyrants, not the servants of their households. They no longer rise when elders enter the room. They contradict their parents, chatter before company, gobble up dainties at the table, cross their legs, and tyrannize their teachers.

Author
Socrates (469–399 B.C.)

Fred Martin said:

Consider this quote:
The children now love luxury; they have bad manners, contempt for authority; ...
Author
Socrates (469–399 B.C.)
Kenneth John Freeman 1907

Click to expand...

Fixed that for you.

https://quoteinvestigator.com/2010/05/01/misbehave/

Fred Martin said:

Consider this quote:
The children now love luxury; they have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place of exercise. Children are now tyrants, not the servants of their households. They no longer rise when elders enter the room. They contradict their parents, chatter before company, gobble up dainties at the table, cross their legs, and tyrannize their teachers.

Author
Socrates (469–399 B.C.)

Click to expand...

Nothing gets my dander up faster than a bunch of leg crossers

I am aware that there is controversy over the origin of the Quote. Don’t believe what you read in the New York Times. Socrates didn’t write much stuff down. Plato makes reference to Socrates saying something very similar. Aristophanes in his play “Clouds” has a character playing Socrates with a similar quote. This was written over 2000 years before Kenneth John Freeman. I don’t doubt that he was a student of literature, but not the original author of the idea ( but possibly the author of the exact quote that I gave). Even if it was Socrates that said it, he probably pilfered it from someone before him. The point is people have been complaining about the indiscretions of youth for millennia and we seem to have survived.

Sorry, my last post was a little too serious. Maybe I should quote the great philosophers Bill and Ted. Their bodacious band Wyld Stallions lead to the formation of a utopian society based on their philosophy “be excellent to each other“
Listen to your future self. Don’t take things too seriously except for the friendships That you form.
-Party on dudes!
P.S. Grok the Heinlein

Sounds like the same plethora of problems manufactured in the 60's. The younger generations where always fodder for some derogatory remarks. Of course when you get it even in the political arena, all bets are off. How can you even look up to them?

Fred Martin said:

I am aware that there is controversy over the origin of the Quote. Don’t believe what you read in the New York Times. Socrates didn’t write much stuff down. Plato makes reference to Socrates saying something very similar. Aristophanes in his play “Clouds” has a character playing Socrates with a similar quote. This was written over 2000 years before Kenneth John Freeman. I don’t doubt that he was a student of literature, but not the original author of the idea ( but possibly the author of the exact quote that I gave). Even if it was Socrates that said it, he probably pilfered it from someone before him. The point is people have been complaining about the indiscretions of youth for millennia and we seem to have survived.

Click to expand...

That quote never made much sense to me given Socrates and his views regarding the youth. I mean, he was literally sentenced to death for impiety and corruption of the youth. It just doesn't jive with how he was portrayed, unless it was a heavily sarcastic remark. Do you have any sources on what he said that was close to this? I'm curious as that would change a lot of what I thought I understood about Socrates . I was always under the impression that "The Clouds" was satirical in nature, so anything from that play wouldn't do a great job of portraying the realities of the time, but rather poke fun at them. Though, I haven't done more than just read about "The Clouds" so I've got at most a general idea of what it was about.

Since my first access to an old bulletin boards in the early nineties I discovered a universal rule and I adopted a new one:
1) God must love stupid people because he made a lot of them.
2) I would NEVER say anything on a forum, social media, etc. that I wouldn't say to you in person.
It's easy to be nice, smile and ignore the dumb ones.

Dumb ones are an essential cat toy for me. Smack, smack, smack...

Compared to other forums that I frequent, I haven't seen a lot of nastiness on this one. I'm not actually sure if I've seen any. Or perhaps I just have higher standards for nastiness? Have I just been missing it or is this more of a proactive request?