Upscale Onyx

rocket sok
SilicdyneTRF
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I originally designed this rocket to be used with a Jolly Logic Chute Release. But after crashing twice and being repaired twice, I no longer use JLCR's. Instead, I bought a new nose cone and upgraded this rocket to head-end dual deploy. The switch band now makes it 2 inches taller so it is no longer quite exactly to scale to the original LOC Onyx. It has been repainted with Duplicolor Burnt Orange Metallic lacquer, 4 coats of clear lacquer, wet sanded, and polished. Not as fancy as the original 3 color paint job, but still looks pretty good.

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Nathan said:
I originally designed this rocket to be used with a Jolly Logic Chute Release. But after crashing twice and being repaired twice, I no longer use JLCR's. Instead, I bought a new nose cone and upgraded this rocket to head-end dual deploy. The switch band now makes it 2 inches taller so it is no longer quite exactly to scale to the original LOC Onyx. It has been repainted with Duplicolor Burnt Orange Metallic lacquer, 4 coats of clear lacquer, wet sanded, and polished. Not as fancy as the original 3 color paint job, but still looks pretty good.

48981942073_865a0cd7e4_o.jpg


48982500551_217def3858_o.jpg


48981942208_177af4ff3e_o.jpg


48982500806_653150b756_o.jpg


48982500736_3f63328e3d_o.jpg
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That is some beautiful paint work! [emoji106]
 
Would be interesting to know how you set up your rocket and JLCR that resulted in two failures. Might be helpful to those who use them. I have never had a failure of the JLCR to release the chute, though I did put one in a flooded drainage ditch at URRF6 in June
 
Jozef said:
Would be interesting to know how you set up your rocket and JLCR that resulted in two failures. Might be helpful to those who use them. I have never had a failure of the JLCR to release the chute, though I did put one in a flooded drainage ditch at URRF6 in June
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I discussed my JLCR problems in this thread: https://www.rocketryforum.com/threads/why-i-dont-use-jolly-logic-chute-release-anymore.155166/

In both failures the hard landings only resulted in damaged fin joints. This rocket has had several of the cracked fin fillets ground off with a Dremel tool and new fillets applied. I also sanded off most of the old paint job with a palm sander before repainting.
 
Have you tried packing your Iris into the nose? I’m guessing you have plenty of room. On my little 3” Punisher it was always a little challenge getting the 36” elliptical and took some practice.
 
BradMilkomeda said:
Have you tried packing your Iris into the nose? I’m guessing you have plenty of room. On my little 3” Punisher it was always a little challenge getting the 36” elliptical and took some practice.
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Hi Brad, in the past I have usually flown this rocket with a 48" elliptical Fruitychute (not an Iris). I just ordered a 60" compact Iris to replace my 72" standard Iris that got damaged at Battlepark last weekend while pulling my Frenzy XL out of a tree. The 60" compact Iris is primarily for the Frenzy XL but it should also fit in the nose of the Upscale Onyx.
 
I use those same switches for my AV bays. So far, so good. See you at Higgs in 2.5 weeks.
 
I'm sure lots of guys besides me want to know, where did you get your switches?
 
Nathan said:
In both failures the hard landings only resulted in damaged fin joints. This rocket has had several of the cracked fin fillets ground off with a Dremel tool and new fillets applied.
Click to expand...

Nathan:
With your cracked fins, could you explain how you do your fin fillets? Do the fins break because of the epoxy/glue that you use/used in the past? How has your fillets evolved over the years?
Thanks
 
Nathan said:
After spraying black. Always nice to remove the masking and not find any flaws. I painted the nose cone black also but I can't put the nose cone on yet because it still has masking tape on the shoulder. Don't worry about the texture in the black paint; it won't be visible after I sand and polish the clear coat.

29611701180_d70e816221_o.jpg


Next step: lightly polish out some tape marks (like the one you can see in the upper red stripe) and then spray clear coat . . .
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Hey there Nathan. Quick question, when you polish out the tape marks, are you wet sanding out the dams ?

Lastly, I have read your older build of the onyx where wet sanded the color coats and then the clear coat, just to confirm, you’re spraying the color coat, then spraying the clear coat and wet sanding that coat correct ?
 
Angel_of_the_Skies said:
Hey there Nathan. Quick question, when you polish out the tape marks, are you wet sanding out the dams ?

Lastly, I have read your older build of the onyx where wet sanded the color coats and then the clear coat, just to confirm, you’re spraying the color coat, then spraying the clear coat and wet sanding that coat correct ?
Click to expand...
I have tried wet sanding out paint dams before spraying clear coat but I don't always. I have found that it's not necessary because they will get sanded away when wet sanding the clear coat and will not be visible. For other readers who may not be aware, paint dams are the paint ridges left at the edge of the painted area after removing the masking tape.

I vaguely remember sanding the color coat on that original red Onyx, that was a long time ago. My normal procedure for years has been to only sand the clearcoat and not the color coats.
 
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Quick question from someone who has been out of the hobby for 20+ years...
How does the RRC3 get accurate pressure readings on such a short bodied rocket? IIRC, the altimeter static ports needed to be at least 5 body calibers behind the nosecone, where laminar flow was reestablished, to get an accurate static pressure reading at speed.

BTW: Your paint jobs, Nathan, are <chef's kiss> c'est magnifique!
 
TRWXXA said:
Quick question from someone who has been out of the hobby for 20+ years...
How does the RRC3 get accurate pressure readings on such a short bodied rocket? IIRC, the altimeter static ports needed to be at least 5 body calibers behind the nosecone, where laminar flow was reestablished, to get an accurate static pressure reading at speed.

BTW: Your paint jobs, Nathan, are <chef's kiss> c'est magnifique!
Click to expand...
The 5 calibers may be right, but it's not needed. The only times the baro altimeters need accurate pressure readings are when the rocket is going slow near apogee, and while falling after the apogee event. Neither condition requires static ports that work well at high speeds. If you really want accurate speed readings during high speed (motor burn) an accelerometer type altimeter would be more accurate.
 
Handeman said:
The 5 calibers may be right, but it's not needed. The only times the baro altimeters need accurate pressure readings are when the rocket is going slow near apogee, and while falling after the apogee event. Neither condition requires static ports that work well at high speeds. If you really want accurate speed readings during high speed (motor burn) an accelerometer type altimeter would be more accurate.
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I was told that if the static ports were not in a laminar flow area, the changing dynamic pressure associated with acceleration and deceleration could cause the altimeter to sense a pressure increase during the upward flight, and read that as apogee.

I once launched an EZI-65 on a J80, and put an altimeter in the payload bay just to see what altitude it got. I knew the static port was only ~3.5 calibers back from the NC, but since it was a motor ejection I tried it anyway. The altimeter came back reading "ERROR". Since then I've taken the 5 caliber rule as gospel.

If there is more information on this, I'd love to know where it is and update my knowledge.
 
TRWXXA said:
I was told that if the static ports were not in a laminar flow area, the changing dynamic pressure associated with acceleration and deceleration could cause the altimeter to sense a pressure increase during the upward flight, and read that as apogee.

I once launched an EZI-65 on a J80, and put an altimeter in the payload bay just to see what altitude it got. I knew the static port was only ~3.5 calibers back from the NC, but since it was a motor ejection I tried it anyway. The altimeter came back reading "ERROR". Since then I've taken the 5 caliber rule as gospel.

If there is more information on this, I'd love to know where it is and update my knowledge.
Click to expand...
What altimeter was it and how old? The ones available today have become so good with their algorithms for avoiding mach transients that I don't think you have to worry about that. No more setting jumpers for mach lock out. Wildman started pushing Head End Deployment HED a few years back where the av-bay is in the nose cone. Doesn't seem to be an issue with the new altimeters having the ports at the base of the nose cone.
 
Handeman said:
What altimeter was it and how old? The ones available today have become so good with their algorithms for avoiding mach transients that I don't think you have to worry about that. No more setting jumpers for mach lock out. Wildman started pushing Head End Deployment HED a few years back where the av-bay is in the nose cone. Doesn't seem to be an issue with the new altimeters having the ports at the base of the nose cone.
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Pretty old (c.1996). Lost it later on a 2-stage flight when a premature NC seperation pulled all the laundry out just after drogue deployment, and the sustainer lit out for the territories, never to be seen again (no GPS traking then).

Well, if Tim "Wildman" Lehr is doing it, that's good enough for me. I figured HED was just for accelerometer based systems.

Didn't mean to hijack the thread.
 
TRWXXA said:
Quick question from someone who has been out of the hobby for 20+ years...
How does the RRC3 get accurate pressure readings on such a short bodied rocket? IIRC, the altimeter static ports needed to be at least 5 body calibers behind the nosecone, where laminar flow was reestablished, to get an accurate static pressure reading at speed.

BTW: Your paint jobs, Nathan, are <chef's kiss> c'est magnifique!
Click to expand...

If any rocket is going to have a problem with the location of the static ports, it would be my Square Rocket (downscale of Tom Cohen's original Higgs Farm Square Rocket). The av-bay with a RRC2+ altimeter is located in the nose. It only has one static port which is located directly below the nose cone and goes through the shoulder of the nose cone. The odd shaped nose cone must certainly affect the airflow over the static port and I was concerned that at high velocity it could create an area of low pressure near the static port, but the altimeter has always worked correctly with deployment at apogee.
Square Rocket 2.jpg
srn.JPG
 
Nathan said:
If any rocket is going to have a problem with the location of the static ports, it would be my Square Rocket (downscale of Tom Cohen's original Higgs Farm Square Rocket). The av-bay with a RRC2+ altimeter is located in the nose. It only has one static port which is located directly below the nose cone and goes through the shoulder of the nose cone. The odd shaped nose cone must certainly affect the airflow over the static port and I was concerned that at high velocity it could create an area of low pressure near the static port, but the altimeter has always worked correctly with deployment at apogee.
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That's badass!
 
Amazing build Nathan! Always an inspiration to see your work, I’m really digging the color scheme.

Could you refer me to a thread on removing tape marks ? Also, in your practice, are you removing all the tape dams that form from masking? Thanks!
 

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