Staying under level one certification

so - Big picture:
If ready to fly comes in under 1500g and I use 2 2XG53Fjs
G53 has 60 grams of propellant and 53N of average thrust
so 120g total and 106N thrust
Am I Ok to fly?

CoachSteve said:

so - Big picture:
If ready to fly comes in under 1500g and I use 2 2XG53Fjs
G53 has 60 grams of propellant and 53N of average thrust
so 120g total and 106N thrust
Am I Ok to fly?

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Yes

Thanks Steve - simple clarity is greatly appreciated - when i get started, i will post a build thread "Quest to build the lightest Minie"

Steve Shannon said:

An example of a “high power rocket” that doesn’t require a waiver is a rocket that weighs less than or equal to 1500 grams, flying on an H motor with 125 grams of propellant or less or a G with greater than 80 N average thrust or a sparky. NFPA 1122 and 1127 deem those high power motors and any rocket propelled by one is a high power rocket. The motors used require certification to purchase with limited exceptions. But to the FAA that’s still Class 1 and requires no waiver.

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Very well described, many do not understand... and that therefore it is possible to attempt a L1 cert without a waiver activated (good option for college teams that have the space but not the COA). I have 3 rockets I fly HPR that don't require a waiver because they don't weigh the 1500g. One is very hot for about 300' when flown on the Vmax F240 and my L1 was a paper 38mm Madcow Tomach flown to 4K feet.

SecondRow said:

There are? SU 38 mm non-hazmat? I’ve never seen any, but I’d love to be able to order them. Can you show me where? I looked again, still can’t find any.

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SecondRow, I have been flying Aerotech I180W-14's this past summer. No hazmat fees.

https://www.buyrocketmotors.com/aerotech-i180w-14a-white-lightning/

Here's the H version

https://www.buyrocketmotors.com/aerotech-h180w-14a-white-lightning/

Greg Furtman said:

SecondRow, I have been flying Aerotech I180W-14's this past summer. No hazmat fees.

https://www.buyrocketmotors.com/aerotech-i180w-14a-white-lightning/

Here's the H version

https://www.buyrocketmotors.com/aerotech-h180w-14a-white-lightning/

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But they’re not SU (single use) which is what he’s looking for.

Yeah, I’ve just gotten started in and don’t get many chances to fly HPR (maybe once or twice a year), so I don’t have hardware yet. I launch with single use motors right now. Thanks for looking out, though.

Steve Shannon said:

Never bet against Sabrina! Sabrina is correct and I was wrong. As soon as a rocket has more than 1500 grams of mass it becomes Class 2 for FAA and requires high power certification under NFPA 1122 and 1127. I apologize for my error.

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I learned something today too. I thought certification had only to do with impulse and propellant weight. I didn’t remember it was linked to total rocket mass too—I thought that only mattered for waivers. Thanks for clarifying.

dpower said:

That’s an interesting detail - The first 2 generations of G80 motors (1st: silk screened phenolic, 2nd:molded w/o thrust ring) had much less propellant than the current version, and probably did fall within those limits. If we follow the NAR motor cert numbers, seems like 2 G80s would indeed require L1 (avg thrust) and also be considered class 2 (prop weight).

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There was a huge discussion over this on one of the Facebook rocket groups recently. The bottom line was that the latest version G80's test data was within test equipment tolerances and was granted mid-power certification as a G80.

For those interested - the Minie-Magg is a bit of a different kit now (mine just arrived last week).
The Kit comes from LOC a good bit heavier that the original.
The shock cord is 2 loop sewn 5/8 tublar nylon (not elastic)
The 1/4 inch fins are now through wall, to the motor tube (no fin lock system)
this may be the same as before but the 38mm motor tube is the thickest wall motor tube I have seen.
I will get actual total kit weight soon and post for those who might be interested

dpower said:

That’s an interesting detail - The first 2 generations of G80 motors (1st: silk screened phenolic, 2nd:molded w/o thrust ring) had much less propellant than the current version, and probably did fall within those limits. If we follow the NAR motor cert numbers, seems like 2 G80s would indeed require L1 (avg thrust) and also be considered class 2 (prop weight).

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Average thrust limit is only for a SINGLE motor. You do not add the average thrusts of multiple motors.

See attached graphic.

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