Sanding between 'finish' coats?

Tom · Oct 8, 2019

I am working on yet another high flyer xl. Trying to get a 'showroom' finish on it.

It came out quite well very glossy and smooth not a hint of tube spiral. It's even hard to see the joiner section.

However in looking at it closer today I noted that the red did not completely cover the white base coat. There are a few spots where the white is coming through. It obviously needs another coat of the red. Does the nice shiny coat that is on there now need to be sanded before applying another coat?

ps; it has dried for over 48 hours now.

neil_w · Oct 8, 2019

I am not an expert here but my experience is: sanding before the final heavy coat yields the smoothest results. I don't often do it, but when I do the results are noticeably better.

KILTED COWBOY · Oct 10, 2019

Use 600 grit or finer paper for between coat sanding.
If paper too rough, you are just starting over again.
Light sanding with extra fine paper.
Same method I use when restoring gun stocks in between coats of finishing oil

Tom · Oct 13, 2019

Thanks, that is exactly what I ended up doing. 600 grit wet sand. Finish came out great. Now for the fins

Thought I had them prepped pretty well but blew it on painting them. Put it on too heavy and got a run on one of them. Others still show slight signs of wood grain. I sealed them, primed them (2 coats sanded between coats) and a coat of gloss black.

Sigh, looks like I have more sanding to do.

KILTED COWBOY · Oct 13, 2019

Try papering the fins. Much easier to a smooth, no grain finish

jqavins · Oct 16, 2019

neil_w said:
I am not an expert here...

Neil, anyone who's held one of your rockets would disagree.

Tom · Oct 16, 2019

I have tried papering fins before without much luck. Maybe it's time to revisit that.

Bruiser · Oct 16, 2019

I learned how to paper fins with Neil's tutorial. I wouldn't do balsa any other way.

-Bob

neil_w · Oct 16, 2019

Bruiser said:
I learned how to paper fins with Neil's tutorial. I wouldn't do balsa any other way.

Which tutorial? I didn't think I wrote one. K'Tesh wrote one, and I have described my techniques in various build threads.

Genuinely curious what you were working from.

Bruiser · Oct 16, 2019

Hmmn, I could have sworn it was a tutorial but you know how my memory is. It could have easily been in a build thread. Didn't you go over the process in your latest build, they one with the ring. See how my memory is?

Anyway, I am pretty sure I learned the technique I use from you because I think you're the only one that uses the Avery label paper.

-Bob

neil_w · Oct 16, 2019

Bruiser said:
Hmmn, I could have sworn it was a tutorial but you know how my memory is. It could have easily been in a build thread. Didn't you go over the process in your latest build, they one with the ring. See how my memory is?

Well I've definitely gone over the process in a few threads, although I didn't think I did for that one. In any case, I am probably the one who has blathered on the most (at least, recently) about papering fins with label paper. So I guess it could have been me. One day I might write an actual tutorial, who knows.

Bruiser · Oct 17, 2019

Well I don't know where I saw it. I just reviewed the Alcubierre and the Iris-T threads and you didn't go over the process in either.

Wait, I've got to find this for my own sanity, or what's left of it anyway

Found it! In the Starship Avalon thread here https://www.rocketryforum.com/threads/starship-avalon-build-thread.136389/page-6#post-1662003

-Bob

neil_w · Oct 17, 2019

Yup, that's probably the last time I went through it. My technique has evolved a bit since then of course.

Glad it's working for you!

Nathan · Oct 17, 2019

Tom said:
I am working on yet another high flyer xl. Trying to get a 'showroom' finish on it.

It came out quite well very glossy and smooth not a hint of tube spiral. It's even hard to see the joiner section.

However in looking at it closer today I noted that the red did not completely cover the white base coat. There are a few spots where the white is coming through. It obviously needs another coat of the red. Does the nice shiny coat that is on there now need to be sanded before applying another coat?

ps; it has dried for over 48 hours now.

Doesn't need to be sanded if it is already smooth but read the instructions on the spray can about recoat window. With some paint (usually enamel) you have to either spray the next coat within an hour or wait about a week for it to cure.

scadaman29325 · Nov 4, 2019

neil_w said:
Yup, that's probably the last time I went through it. My technique has evolved a bit since then of course. Glad it's working for you!

Could you elaborate on the evolution please. Either here or on the thread.
https://www.rocketryforum.com/threads/starship-avalon-build-thread.136389/page-6#post-1662003

Thanks.

neil_w · Nov 5, 2019

scadaman29325 said:
Could you elaborate on the evolution please.

Three tweaks:
1) I now do one side at a time. That is, apply paper to one side, trim the whole thing, then do the other side.
2) Sanding off of the extra is mostly done with a piece of sandpaper (usually a fresh piece of 400 grit, although sometimes 220 if I'm in a hurry) wrapped around a pencil or something similar, using a diagonal sanding motion as shown:

The pencil moves simultaneously to the left and away.
3) Finishing sanding is done almost exclusively with 800 grit, including the edges after applying TBII. This minimizes chances of either (a) over-sanding the fin edges, or (b) scuffing the paper.

Tom · Nov 5, 2019

TBII ?

rharshberger · Nov 5, 2019

Tom said:
TBII ?

Titebond II yellow wood glue.

jqavins · Nov 6, 2019

Tightbond has three types: Original, II (a.k.a. Premium), and III (a.k.a. Ultimate). It's tempting to think a higher number is always better, but they actually have different characteristics. I've looked over the manufacturer's own comparison chart and decided that Original is plenty strong enough and good enough in other ways for LP rocketry, while the advantages of the others don't justify the price difference.

(Despite not being for outdoor use, other versions also from the manufacturer say Original is waterproof, so I surmise it's not for extended water exposure or submersion. Other manufacturer versions explain that "Chalk Temperature" is the minimum application temperature.)

rharshberger · Nov 6, 2019

jqavins said:
Tightbond has three types: Original, II (a.k.a. Premium), and III (a.k.a. Ultimate). It's tempting to think a higher number is always better, but they actually have different characteristics. I've looked over the manufacturer's own comparison chart and decided that Original is plenty strong enough and good enough in other ways for LP rocketry, while the advantages of the others don't justify the price difference.

(Despite not being for outdoor use, other versions also from the manufacturer say Original is waterproof, so I surmise it's not for extended water exposure or submersion. Other manufacturer versions explain that "Chalk Temperature" is the minimum application temperature.)

Don't forget Titebond No Run No Drip, super thick and works great for fillets on cardboard and wood rockets.

neil_w · Nov 6, 2019

rharshberger said:
Don't forget Titebond No Run No Drip, super thick and works great for fillets on cardboard and wood rockets.

Nowadays that would be Quick and Thick:

That product is competing with Pledge/Future for most name changes.

SecondRow · Nov 6, 2019

neil_w said:
Nowadays that would be Quick and Thick:
View attachment 398003

That product is competing with Pledge/Future for most name changes.

+1. I think my last bottle of it was called Molding and Trim glue.

Bruiser · Nov 6, 2019

Yep, I too am enjoying the Quick and Thick on fillets. Good stuff...

-Bob

rharshberger · Nov 6, 2019

neil_w said:
Nowadays that would be Quick and Thick:
View attachment 398003

That product is competing with Pledge/Future for most name changes.

SecondRow said:
+1. I think my last bottle of it was called Molding and Trim glue.

rharshberger said:
Don't forget Titebond No Run No Drip, super thick and works great for fillets on cardboard and wood rockets.

It changes names so often I can't keep up, but I still purchase at least two bottles everytime I run out.

neil_w · Nov 6, 2019

rharshberger said:
It changes names so often I can't keep up, but I still purchase at least two bottles everytime I run out.

I'm hoping they stay with Quick and Thick, it's a good catchy name and easy to remember. By far the best name of the three IMHO.

But yeah, it's great for fillets. For those who have never used it before, check out my tutorial: https://www.rocketryforum.com/threads/doing-fillets-with-titebond-quick-and-thick.148632/

Sanding between 'finish' coats?

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