Estes 1/200 Scale RTF Saturn V

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Seems like a personal grudge against it. He has said nothing for weeks as this thread has been pretty dead and first time someone says something positive out of the wood work he comes and spreads more negative comments. I have has 12 flights NO issues or problems. jahall4 please spread the negativity else where and let us enjoy this rocket in peace. You have made you point WELL known but you seem obsessed like a sickness. Its gotten old and tiring. Enough please!!

Just coincidence my man. It's only the 3rd time I have seen one fly and this one was NOT flown by me. For you to interpret something different suggests your own personal bias and sickness. I report what I see to benefit those trying to fly this rocket safely, you trying to make it about something else suggests that you have little interest in the safety of the hobby and should not reply to post you don't like.
 
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Just coincidence my man. It's only the 3rd time I have seen one fly and this one was NOT flown by me. For you to interpret something different suggests your own personal bias and sickness. I report what I see to benefit those trying to fly this rocket safely, you trying to make it about something else suggests that you have little interest in the safety of the hobby and should not reply to post you don't like.


Coincidence perhaps... I apologise if I offended. I have edited my original post. I would like to say from my personal experience there is nothing wrong with this rocket if you follow the instructions which are fully detailed as any other rocket. Yes if you do not seat the motor properly or attach the clear fin unit properly issues as you have described can happen which is stated in the manual. After 12 flights on C6-3 motors I have had zero issues. Ive been in the hobby on and off for 43 years so maybe that plays into it. I followed the instructions and have had 100% success rate. Yes installing the motor can be a bit more time consuming but the instructions clearly state how to do it.
Most of the issues Im assuming are from people rushing to put it in the air and not taking the time to verify proper motor and fin installation or using different motors. Yes having a motor tube would help motor installation and would have been a wise addition and Estes should add it.
If there was a critical design error Estes would have pulled it from the market as they did with the X15 years ago. They would not keep a problem product out in the market without a recall. To say other wise is absurd. I have only heard negative issues from a couple of people on this forum and other social media.
 
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This rocket is as safe to fly as with any other ordinary model rocket. That is if you install the rocket engine and the plastic fin unit correctly.
 
Coincidence perhaps... I apologise if I offended.

It's hardly an apology to "apologize" then re-question my motivation in the same breath. When I have first hand knowledge of failed or successful flights I'll continue to post here as soon as practical. I report what I see to benefit those trying to fly this rocket safely.
 
Accepted or not is your choice of course. Poor choice of word on my part. I did however mean it sincerely. Life is too short. I can only say what I have experienced with my 2 Saturn V 1/200s. I have had no issues any only good results in over 15 flights now on recommended C6-3 motors. This is a great hobby and it is important to report issues with products. I do however feel there are no issues with this one. Maybe a few were improperly assembled in the factory causing issues you have witnessed or bad motors. I have had great success flying mine and look forward to many more flights. Nothing like seeing a scale Saturn V lift off.
 
Accepted or not is your choice of course. Poor choice of word on my part. I did however mean it sincerely. Life is too short. I can only say what I have experienced with my 2 Saturn V 1/200s. I have had no issues any only good results in over 15 flights now on recommended C6-3 motors. This is a great hobby and it is important to report issues with products. I do however feel there are no issues with this one. Maybe a few were improperly assembled in the factory causing issues you have witnessed or bad motors. I have had great success flying mine and look forward to many more flights. Nothing like seeing a scale Saturn V lift off.

If there were in fact "no issues" Estes would have not released and addendum and made the extra effort of opening previously packaged inventory to insert a new hard copy.
 
Very true but it was addressed with the addendum and if followed no issues should arise.
 
Very true but it was addressed with the addendum and if followed no issues should arise.

Yes, the adendum does a good job explaining how to avoid an improperly loaded motor, but the flight on the 7th was post addendum, and as I explained at that time, flow by a flyer that a) was aware of the issue and b) may have more decades in the hobby than you and I combined. The C6 is simply not adequate (by calculation and by Estes own guidelines) made even more so by an individual motor who's thrust may be as much as 20% below spec.
 
Never had a issue myself with the C6-3 which is alI I have used. I am curious to try a C12-4 Q-Jet when they are approved for sale here in Canada.
 
Never had a issue myself with the C6-3 which is alI I have used. I am curious to try a C12-4 Q-Jet when they are approved for sale here in Canada.

The QJet C12 has worked well for me - several hundred feet more altitude so the recovery phase isn’t quite as exciting as it’s been a couple times with the Estes C6-3 ;)
 
Yes, the adendum does a good job explaining how to avoid an improperly loaded motor, but the flight on the 7th was post addendum, and as I explained at that time, flow by a flyer that a) was aware of the issue and b) may have more decades in the hobby than you and I combined. The C6 is simply not adequate (by calculation and by Estes own guidelines) made even more so by an individual motor who's thrust may be as much as 20% below spec.

The thrust level of the C6-3 is not what will cause an unstable flight.

I have seen several dozen flights now (including one yesterday with a C6-3 in a 5 mph breeze).

C6-3 works great even in breeze.

C6-3 if installed at a tiny angle (not seated properly) will result in unstable flight.

C12-4 if installed at a tiny angle (not seated properly) will result in unstable flight. I saw one and only one which was prepared by a VERY experienced flyer who "poo-poo'd" the Estes instruction addendum. He no longer "Poo-poo's" the addendum and has had no further unstable flights.
 
The thrust level of the C6-3 is not what will cause an unstable flight.

Sure it can hence 3-5:1 T/W ratio as a min rule of thumb, but yes, at such a low ration thrust alignment is critical and even more so as the margin approaches 0.
 
Sure it can hence 3-5:1 T/W ratio as a min rule of thumb, but yes, at such a low ration thrust alignment is critical and even more so as the margin approaches 0.

Nice editing out of the part of my post that stated:

C12-4 if installed at a tiny angle (not seated properly) will result in unstable flight. I saw one and only one which was prepared by a VERY experienced flyer who "poo-poo'd" the Estes instruction addendum. He no longer "Poo-poo's" the addendum and has had no further unstable flights.
 
And this can’t be stated enough either with this rocket - the clear plastic fin unit cannot have any appreciable wobble! Make sure the retainer holds the CPFU nice and snug! Fortunately mine didn’t have a catastrophic ending to the flight (one and only such flight) where I didn’t ensure the CPFU was snug.
 
Yes the fin unit must be aligned and seated correctly. There are 4 holes / openings in the CPFU that mate to 4 pins on the bottom of the rocket and it must sit all the way flat with the plastic bottom on the rocket. If its not all the way down the motor retainer cap wont thread all the way on and the fin unit will wiggle slightly. Just make sure it pops all the way down everything will feel secure with no play and your good to go.
 
Has anyone considered using this?
Seems like a lot of folks thinking this model is under powered with the C6-3
Flight Sketch has a kit to go from the 18mm stock motor to a 24mm motor for this model.
Has anyone tried one yet? Instructions look interesting.
 
Has anyone considered using this?
Seems like a lot of folks thinking this model is under powered with the C6-3
Flight Sketch has a kit to go from the 18mm stock motor to a 24mm motor for this model.
Has anyone tried one yet? Instructions look interesting.

Absolutely no need.

Perfectly stable flights with C6-3.
If you want faster flights, you use a C12-4.
If you want even faster and higher flights, you use D16-4.

No alterations required.
 
Absolutely no need.

Perfectly stable flights with C6-3.
If you want faster flights, you use a C12-4.
If you want even faster and higher flights, you use D16-4.

No alterations required.
+1. Maidened mine on a D16 Q-Jet. It flew straight as an arrow and promptly drifted out of the park.
Lost it in some scrub brush.
Replacement will fly on a C12 or C6.
 
+1. Maidened mine on a D16 Q-Jet. It flew straight as an arrow and promptly drifted out of the park.
Lost it in some scrub brush.
Replacement will fly on a C12 or C6.
...man - sorry for your loss.

had good flights with the C6 - not high but easy to follow during flights.
 
...Instructions look interesting.

... and if the forward retention ring is more heat resistant than the plastic used in the unmodified kit then the FlightSketch mod mitigates that weakness as well. BTW... Don't let anyone discourage you from trying something that could make your rockets better.
 
+1. Maidened mine on a D16 Q-Jet. It flew straight as an arrow and promptly drifted out of the park.
Lost it in some scrub brush.
Replacement will fly on a C12 or C6.
Ouch! Pricey model to lose on the first flight. On the other hand, since it is RTF, at least you didn’t lose hours and hours spent building and finishing a kit version.

Hope your next version has a straight trail, a soft landing, AND a SHORT walk!
 
Great flights now and good altitude.[/QUOTE]

What altitude do you get on a D with this bird?
Must get up there. My launch site is surrounded by corn fields which eat rockets lol. I think it would drift too far to make sure I get it back unless its a next to no wind day. Its definitely a rocket you don't want to loose, way to nice. The C6-3 is perfect where I fly and I would like to try a C12-4 Q Jet when I am able to get them here but I think that's more than enough for this rocket unless your trying for low Earth orbit. :)
 
Kids had a altitude plastic thing and said on most of the launches I was getting almost 700 feet, to 800.

Nice... It isn't a light rocket so that sounds just about what I would expect from a D. I don't mind the lower C motor altitudes so I can see, track and recover it easier.
 
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Has anyone considered using this?
Seems like a lot of folks thinking this model is under powered with the C6-3
Flight Sketch has a kit to go from the 18mm stock motor to a 24mm motor for this model.
Has anyone tried one yet? Instructions look interesting.
I have modified that to a better version with a quick lock motor retainer. You don't have to modify any of the original parts (Other than adding nose weight), just replace and go. Download the 3d print files instructions and photos here: Look for the Saturn V Zip file. And enjoy the other videos n stuff!
https://mega.nz/#F!TJpGVSgL!_Nv-8Sp7Npu4UAKWrNKBVQ
 


Launched my replacement today on a C6-3 motor. A slight breeze blowing, maybe 5 mph. Beautiful flight and recovery, slight arcing near apogee.
Will try a Q-Jet C on the next flight. For higher flights and larger fields the Q-Jet D is perfect.:D
One thing I noticed: When loading the motor it is not fully seated at the first "stop". The retainer will not fully thread down and lock the fin can. When I twisted it the motor advanced down a further 1/8" or so and the retainer could be fully threaded down. I think that may be what has led to some of the errant flights that have been reported. Read and follow all instructions and addendums.
Cheers.
 
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Launched my Saturn V on Saturday for first time on C6-3. Actually flew better than expected I guess it went 200' but seemed higher.
Attempted to fly on D16-6 but malfunctioned. Motor burned for about 10 seconds and after 6 second delay ejected parachute. Rocket never left pad.
2nd attempt on D16 and could not get to ignite. Igniter popped with authority but did not ignite motor.
 
Launched my Saturn V on Saturday for first time on C6-3. Actually flew better than expected I guess it went 200' but seemed higher.
Attempted to fly on D16-6 but malfunctioned. Motor burned for about 10 seconds and after 6 second delay ejected parachute. Rocket never left pad.
2nd attempt on D16 and could not get to ignite. Igniter popped with authority but did not ignite motor.
Make sure the Qjet igniter is all the way to the front of the motor. Composites burn from the front of the core, if lit from the middle or end they might not build up enough pressure and will stay on the pad and burn.
 
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