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With a CTI-esque BP pellet or some such to help light the D10. (A painted on layer of nitrocellulose?)

Additional manual steps add to the cost per unit significantly.

And making/buying new industrial machinery to do those fiddly steps is a non-negligible investment
 
Or a longer burning 13mm A. An A-10 with a 2 second burn would be fun to fly.
A motor with an Avg N-sec of 10, burning for 2 seconds, would be a 20 N-sec "D". If you want a "real" A10, then it would burn for 0.25 second at most (2.5 N-sec for A class, divided by 10 Newton Avg thrust).
 
Estes 13mm A3-4T being a "full" A is a pretty cool motor in the right application. Would certainly be cool to up the 13mm game if it makes economic sense. Don't see it happening though...
 
Estes 13mm A3-4T being a "full" A is a pretty cool motor in the right application. Would certainly be cool to up the 13mm game if it makes economic sense. Don't see it happening though...
For some definition of "full". I find the A3-4t nearly useless, and I would fly many nore A3-2t and A3-6t motors, if they were still available.
 
A motor with an Avg N-sec of 10, burning for 2 seconds, would be a 20 N-sec "D". If you want a "real" A10, then it would burn for 0.25 second at most (2.5 N-sec for A class, divided by 10 Newton Avg thrust).

I was wondering if somebody was going to correct me on that. >smile< I would like everyone to pretend that it was a typographical error.
 
My recollection is a little different, but you should know. The B7 was not an AeroTech motor, it was an Apogee motor that TVM produced at the Aerotech facility, and it was designed by a third party. TVM was mainly leveraging AeroTech's pemits, but also the facilities and supplies, and probably some labor as well. TVM was on site in Las Vegas when his motors were made. The E6 and F10, are clearly Aerotech motors, some of which were relabeled as Apogee motors. Apogee and TVM is due a little more credit for some of those motors like the B7. Low sales may have been a factor, but they were discontinued when TVM decided not to continue production at the new AT facility. I don't know the nitty-gritty details of the Apogee/Aerotech operation.

The C10, C4, B7 (and maybe the D3) motors were designed and developed at AeroTech back when Ed LaCroix still owned Apogee.

Ed wanted a smaller 'C' motor for Eggloft so the C10 motor was developed.
A longer-burn C4 motor for gliders was another specialty motor for Apogee developed by AeroTech.
These were both 18mm diameter motors but less than two inches long.

Ed really wanted a 13mm diameter motor.
The largest performance we could get out of a 13mm phenolic case would be a 'full' 'B' motor.

The B7 was a real challenge.
Scott Pearce spent a lot of time with Gary Rosenfield developing that motor.
Getting the 13mm casing was not an issue.
Creating a nozzle for the motor WAS an issue.
Ed didn't want to spring for a nozzle mold and AeroTech had no use for a 13mm nozzle.
Solution: Scott took 18mm nozzles and machined each one on a lathe to the size needed for the B7 motors.
It took him all day to make 100 of the nozzles.
Casting the propellant was another challenge as the propellant was difficult to pour into such small casting tubes.
Scott and Gary eventually figured it out.
Making the small diameter delays for the motors was not easy either.

Eventually, the first batch of B7 motors was created by AeroTech.
The motors were NAR certified with -4, -6, -8 and -10 second delays.

Those were cool motors. I still have several in my collection.
I used two of the B7 motors as a cluster in a 'C' eggloft event at a NAR meet.
Scott developed a special two-headed Copperhead igniter for clustered B7s.
The igniter worked great! I messed up by forgetting about drag-separation as the egg capsule came off the rocket at motor burn-out.
Qualified but last place.

Later, Ed would come up to AeroTech and do the final assembly of the B7 motors.
The propellant/delay would have already been cast and the nozzles made.

All the Apogee composite propellant motors were produced at AeroTech by AeroTech staff or later with Ed LaCroix handling some of the final assembly work. I was gone from AeroTech when Ed sold Apogee to Tim van Milligan so I don't know how/who made these special motors at that time.

That's the story of the origin of the Apogee composite propellant motors.
 
I have a stash of Centuri 13mm B4s. A B7 would be a fine thing. It’s a nice upgrade over an A for a small but draggy rocket. I wouldn’t say a 13mm C would be overkill - but they are little rockets, after all.
 
My recollection is a little different, but you should know. The B7 was not an AeroTech motor, it was an Apogee motor that TVM produced at the Aerotech facility, and it was designed by a third party. TVM was mainly leveraging AeroTech's pemits, but also the facilities and supplies, and probably some labor as well. TVM was on site in Las Vegas when his motors were made. The E6 and F10, are clearly Aerotech motors, some of which were relabeled as Apogee motors. Apogee and TVM is due a little more credit for some of those motors like the B7. Low sales may have been a factor, but they were discontinued when TVM decided not to continue production at the new AT facility. I don't know the nitty-gritty details of the Apogee/Aerotech operation.
The B7 was not designed by a third party, I designed that motor along with Gary Rosenfield when I was working for AeroTech. I still have one from the first batches. They were produced by AeroTech Initially, and later by contract by Apogee. I also designed a B14 & C26 but there was no interest from AeroTech to make those...
1.jpg 2.jpg 3.jpg
 
The C10, C4, B7 (and maybe the D3) motors were designed and developed at AeroTech back when Ed LaCroix still owned Apogee.

Ed wanted a smaller 'C' motor for Eggloft so the C10 motor was developed.
A longer-burn C4 motor for gliders was another specialty motor for Apogee developed by AeroTech.
These were both 18mm diameter motors but less than two inches long.

Ed really wanted a 13mm diameter motor.
The largest performance we could get out of a 13mm phenolic case would be a 'full' 'B' motor.

The B7 was a real challenge.
Scott Pearce spent a lot of time with Gary Rosenfield developing that motor.
Getting the 13mm casing was not an issue.
Creating a nozzle for the motor WAS an issue.
Ed didn't want to spring for a nozzle mold and AeroTech had no use for a 13mm nozzle.
Solution: Scott took 18mm nozzles and machined each one on a lathe to the size needed for the B7 motors.
It took him all day to make 100 of the nozzles.
Casting the propellant was another challenge as the propellant was difficult to pour into such small casting tubes.
Scott and Gary eventually figured it out.
Making the small diameter delays for the motors was not easy either.

Eventually, the first batch of B7 motors was created by AeroTech.
The motors were NAR certified with -4, -6, -8 and -10 second delays.

Those were cool motors. I still have several in my collection.
I used two of the B7 motors as a cluster in a 'C' eggloft event at a NAR meet.
Scott developed a special two-headed Copperhead igniter for clustered B7s.
The igniter worked great! I messed up by forgetting about drag-separation as the egg capsule came off the rocket at motor burn-out.
Qualified but last place.

Later, Ed would come up to AeroTech and do the final assembly of the B7 motors.
The propellant/delay would have already been cast and the nozzles made.

All the Apogee composite propellant motors were produced at AeroTech by AeroTech staff or later with Ed LaCroix handling some of the final assembly work. I was gone from AeroTech when Ed sold Apogee to Tim van Milligan so I don't know how/who made these special motors at that time.

That's the story of the origin of the Apogee composite propellant motors.
Thank you very much for the development history of those motors. I knew the story started with Ed LaCroix when he owned Apogge. Tim continued the operation and even added some contest BP motors, and Tim stopped making or having the motors made after the AT fire and relocation.
 
There was briefly a 13mm C6. I had a few when they were available. White Lightning, moon burner. I had a cato and the pieces show the liner was peeled down 10.5mm body tube. It was longer than a A3, iirc about 60 mm. Wish I still had some but they probably would be impossible to light.
 
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