Pro Series II going away?

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I think it would be an extremely poor decision to discontinue 29mm BP motors, since it not only allows for bigger & better kits, but also allows the to compete more effectively against composite motors !

Dave F.
I think it would be an extremely poor decision to discontinue 29mm BP motors, since it not only allows for bigger & better kits, but also allows the to compete more effectively against composite motors !

Dave F.
I agree. Since the F15-0 came out, I have been working on ideas for multi-stage. I keep coming back to upscale Farside-X or T-Bird. Maybe multi engine 1st stage.

I remember when I first saw them, I bought some. I knew I had to try something with them.
 
I saw them and built an upscale Vigilante. E16-E16 works a little better than Fs. Keeping the weight down enough is hard. Something like an F30-0 would be awesome
 
Aren’t the F15-0 booster motors out of production now? E16-0 boosters are still around, but I haven’t seen F15-0s in a long time. I like staging E16-0 to E16-6 in my Ascender with the PSII booster. It stages low enough to easily see the staging event, and the flights are slow and majestic.
 
Aren’t the F15-0 booster motors out of production now?
Is that true? I haven't seen any indication of that from the online vendors. I know HL stopped carrying them a while back (bummer) but it *looks* like they're still around.

I'm not sure they're the best booster motors given that they're heavy and fairly low thrust, but they sure work nice in saucers with a 3.5 second burn....
 
Both the E and F booster motors are in stock at AC Supply and available for purchase on Estes website so for now they seem to be readily available. I’ve never used one under any of my 29mm motor rockets but I’d like too ;)
 
If the F15-0 motor is still in stock at various vendors, then it’s probably still in production, and I apologize for spreading unfounded rumors.

Also, no bashing states, especially California! We have the best plywood! It is completely edible — it’s 100% organic, vegan, non-GMO, grass-fed, free-range, and gluten free! Come to California, taste our plywood, and you will understand!
 
... We have the best plywood! It is completely edible — it’s 100% organic, vegan, non-GMO, grass-fed, free-range, and gluten free! Come to California, taste our plywood, and you will understand!

So from another thread, here is an instance of the comment about plywood in CA.

... Why you ask were the plywood fins replaced with Balsa Fins; the answer is simply. Our China supplier doesn't have plywood that a human can eat in the great state of California so I was forced to go with Balsa.

John Boren

Is this the rule that is (was -- that thread was from before the new owners took over) keeping Estes from using plywood fins?

https://www.epa.gov/formaldehyde/formaldehyde-emission-standards-composite-wood-products
 
So from another thread, here is an instance of the comment about plywood in CA.



Is this the rule that is (was -- that thread was from before the new owners took over) keeping Estes from using plywood fins?

https://www.epa.gov/formaldehyde/formaldehyde-emission-standards-composite-wood-products

I have no idea what the issue is with Estes and plywood and the state law. But that rule you linked to is an EPA rule, so that would be a federal rule, not a California rule.

I was making a joke about earlier comments in this thread about California having rules to make plywood edible. I’m pretty sure any state rules affecting plywood are not about making it safe to eat and are based on concerns about outgassing or other health risks. Whatever the rule is, other rocketry companies seem to have figured out how to comply with it, because I have no problem buying kits with plywood parts from other manufacturers. And I have no problem buying plywood here. So I don’t know why Estes is unable to comply or what the comment from JumpJet was about. I do know that Estes shipped me a Sahara kit with plywood parts in it about a year ago. Maybe his earlier comment is no longer an issue.
 
I have no idea what the issue is with Estes and plywood and the state law. But that rule you linked to is an EPA rule, so that would be a federal rule, not a California rule.

Yes. I understood that you were making a joke. The comments about plywood having to be safe for human consumption in CA, to which your joke was a reply, seem to proceed from John Boren's comments regarding the use of plywood fins in Estes kits.

As for whether California is blameworthy (or, rather, praiseworthy) in this connection, the EPA regulation was written after the CARB regulation and (quoting the linked page with emphasis added)

On December 12, 2016, EPA published in the Federal Register a final rule to reduce exposure to formaldehyde emissions from certain wood products produced domestically or imported into the United States. EPA worked with the California Air Resources Board (CARB) to help ensure the final national rule was consistent with California’s requirements for similar composite wood products.
 
I wonder if part of the edible plywood problem stems from people making toys for young children (say large piece wooden puzzles) that a child may place in their mouth?
 
I wonder if part of the edible plywood problem stems from people making toys for young children (say large piece wooden puzzles) that a child may place in their mouth?

I am pretty sure that John Boren's comment, along with all of its echoes, was meant as hyperbole.

I am genuinely curious, though, if it was the formaldehyde regulation that prompted Estes to stop using plywood parts and, if so, if this is still a constraint. The regulation does not prevent the importation of plywood. It only requires that the manufacturer is certified as compliant with the standards.
 
I have no idea what the issue is with Estes and plywood and the state law. But that rule you linked to is an EPA rule, so that would be a federal rule, not a California rule.

I was making a joke about earlier comments in this thread about California having rules to make plywood edible. I’m pretty sure any state rules affecting plywood are not about making it safe to eat and are based on concerns about outgassing or other health risks. Whatever the rule is, other rocketry companies seem to have figured out how to comply with it, because I have no problem buying kits with plywood parts from other manufacturers. And I have no problem buying plywood here. So I don’t know why Estes is unable to comply or what the comment from JumpJet was about. I do know that Estes shipped me a Sahara kit with plywood parts in it about a year ago. Maybe his earlier comment is no longer an issue.

The plywood Estes wants to use is made in the People's Republic of China where it has been found there are very high levels of formaldehyde in the material.

This also affected a major home improvement store chain.

PRC wood/drywall material is not safe to be around.
This caused the creation of the regulation. If Estes used Made in USA plywood there would not be this issue.
 
Google says that there are CARB certified plywood suppliers in China.
 
And things would cost more
Yea, but I am tired of buying cheap Chinese crap only to have it fail. Sure you could think you are saving money but when you look at the longevity of that low grade crap (Any product not just plywood) So you buy something that cost $3 from china, it fails, you buy another one in six months, and again and again. Whereas if you bought a quality made in USA product for $20 and it lasts 30 years...Just Saying... Maybe if everyone would just stop thinking about the short term, buy American, sales would go up which would reduce prices, everybody wins!
 
Yea, but I am tired of buying cheap Chinese crap only to have it fail. Sure you could think you are saving money but when you look at the longevity of that low grade crap (Any product not just plywood) So you buy something that cost $3 from china, it fails, you buy another one in six months, and again and again. Whereas if you bought a quality made in USA product for $20 and it lasts 30 years...Just Saying... Maybe if everyone would just stop thinking about the short term, buy American, sales would go up which would reduce prices, everybody wins!

Amen . . . On so many levels !

Dave F.
 
Maybe, ir you say so. To my eye, that photo looks like a modern replica, possibly manufactured in China. ;)
 
Yea, but I am tired of buying cheap Chinese crap only to have it fail. Sure you could think you are saving money but when you look at the longevity of that low grade crap (Any product not just plywood) So you buy something that cost $3 from china, it fails, you buy another one in six months, and again and again. Whereas if you bought a quality made in USA product for $20 and it lasts 30 years...Just Saying... Maybe if everyone would just stop thinking about the short term, buy American, sales would go up which would reduce prices, everybody wins!
Totally in agreement, But...It's become increasingly difficult to source U.S. made products at any price. We seem to have left most of the manufacturing/recycling of "dirty" products to other countries as though we don't all live in a closed environment. Reminds me of a book I've read on dirty bomb testing sites that were simply barbed wire fenced off and left in situ. That is until someone did a study on how much earth an earthworm can move in a day and how many of said are eaten and re-deposited elsewhere by birds...And that's only one minor example.
 
I'll elaborate on my "more expensive" post. Sure there are economic benefits to going wholly domestic.....but only if they sell.

The hobby complained when the original PSIIs sold for the 'cheap' price of 60$ using bulk inexpensive foreign components. If the same kits were produced locally in estes volume and needs, they'll probably cost more than the original price, and be even more restricted to those of us that are crazy enough about rockets to justify the cost 'because rockets'
 
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