Lakewood Colorado Shutting down C.R.A.S.H launches at Bear lake

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How do you find a petition on the Ipetitions site? - I created an account but cannot find any way to "find" a particular petition?
 
Well for what it’s worth I signed it. Don’t they know SEDS\NASA SLI is a college level engineering competition that’s a gateway to higher paying jobs for students just graduating in engineering? Those competitions actually applied everything we knew and learned.
 
I do not live in the boundaries in question. I am still a member of CRASH and very much support that club. The authorities in question have been trying to find a way to get rid of CRASH for some years. I believe in going down swinging though. They just might get stung enough that they won't try this garbage on anybody else.

Jim
 
However noble your effort, you have to remember that municipal governments are elected bodies. Elected bodies cater to the whims of voters who can either keep them in office or send them home. There's a big difference in going down swinging and tilting at windmills.
 
WhiskyTangoFoxtrot said:
However noble your effort, you have to remember that municipal governments are elected bodies. Elected bodies cater to the whims of voters who can either keep them in office or send them home. There's a big difference in going down swinging and tilting at windmills.
Click to expand...

Having been through this a few times, Here is how to make local elected officials care:
Run for office explicitly supporting a platform
[edit] Show up in person to their office or council meetings several times [/edit, thanks samb]
Show up in person to their office
Show up in person at council meetings
Invite them to a meeting with local voters who care about a subject
Call their office
Email their office
....
....
Sign an online petition

Elected officials care about voters and people who show up. If you don't show up in person, you won't get attention because they have so many other people emailing and sending online petitions. That said, the petition can have value as a means of collecting contact information so you can organize people to show up or to organize other meetings.
 
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Tilting at windmills.. maybe. Doing nothing is not acceptable in my opinion. The club is part of the community and the park is a shared community resource. Boatgeek is right, persistant respectful communication is the way forward. Regardless of the outcome of Mondays meeting I would encourage the folks to keep the dialog going. I hope some of the youth groups they've helped over the years can aid the lobbying effort.
 
WhiskyTangoFoxtrot said:
However noble your effort, you have to remember that municipal governments are elected bodies. Elected bodies cater to the whims of voters who can either keep them in office or send them home. There's a big difference in going down swinging and tilting at windmills.
Click to expand...
There's also a big difference between a two bit demagogue and a representative who truly represents the best interest of their constituents. I know from lots of personal experience that both types of people are found in government. Encourage them to do the right thing and give them the space and support to do so. If they act like jerks, it isn't because we didn't care. If that's 'tilting at windmills' it sure beats going quietly into the night.

Jim
 
samb said:
Tilting at windmills.. maybe. Doing nothing is not acceptable in my opinion. The club is part of the community and the park is a shared community resource. Boatgeek is right, persistant respectful communication is the way forward. Regardless of the outcome of Mondays meeting I would encourage the folks to keep the dialog going. I hope some of the youth groups they've helped over the years can aid the lobbying effort.
Click to expand...

Thank you for pointing out persistent. I've updated the list above. Showing up more than once shows that you really care about this and you might actually vote based on that position.

Jim Hinton said:
There's also a big difference between a two bit demagogue and a representative who truly represents the best interest of their constituents. I know from lots of personal experience that both types of people are found in government. Encourage them to do the right thing and give them the space and support to do so. If they act like jerks, it isn't because we didn't care. If that's 'tilting at windmills' it sure beats going quietly into the night.

Jim
Click to expand...

It's also worth pointing out that Lakewood is large but not huge, with about 90,000 registered voters and ~40-50,000 that turn out. If you can get 50-100 people to a couple of city council meetings, you will get attention. Most city council meetings have an opportunity for public testimony, so use that. Be positive, say what you want, be willing to make reasonable compromises, tell stories about why it's important, and bring students if you can. If there are TARC teams from local high schools, see if they can recruit their government/civics teacher in to help. At the very least, students might be able to get class credit for showing up to council meetings.

Anyone involved in this is welcome to PM me for more specific advice.
 
boatgeek said:
If there are TARC teams from local high schools, see if they can recruit their government/civics teacher in to help. At the very least, students might be able to get class credit for showing up to council meetings.
Click to expand...

+1. Involving the students that you’ve helped is the best way to change the council members’ minds. Did I see that you’ve helped scouts, too? If you can, have a representative from scouting speak at the meeting on your behalf backed up a group of kids who have been to the launches, dressed in their class A’s of course.

The bottom line is that the officials don’t give a good goddamn about a bunch of old guys that aren’t going to be able to play with their toys anymore. They might care if they see that children are affected. The visual display of kids at the meeting in support of your cause will do more for you than anything else at the moment. But you can’t take an antagonistic approach, no matter how justified you are. In the end, if the end goal was to get rid of rocketry no matter what, there’s nothing you can do except run for city council.

And an online petition is worth less than the piece of paper it’s printed on.
 
SecondRow said:
+1. Involving the students that you’ve helped is the best way to change the council members’ minds. Did I see that you’ve helped scouts, too? If you can, have a representative from scouting speak at the meeting on your behalf backed up a group of kids who have been to the launches, dressed in their class A’s of course.

The bottom line is that the officials don’t give a good goddamn about a bunch of old guys that aren’t going to be able to play with their toys anymore. They might care if they see that children are affected. The visual display of kids at the meeting in support of your cause will do more for you than anything else at the moment. But you can’t take an antagonistic approach, no matter how justified you are. In the end, if the end goal was to get rid of rocketry no matter what, there’s nothing you can do except run for city council.

And an online petition is worth less than the piece of paper it’s printed on.
Click to expand...
Thank you SecondRow. Sound advice to those who are obvious extremely wet behind the ears. The officials DON'T give a good goddamn about a bunch of old that aren't going to be able to play with their toys anymore. And an online petition IS worth LESS than the piece of paper it's printed on. I know what will happen at that meeting. A committee will be formed to "further study" the issue. (If you're lucky.). And they'll string you along with the same amount of bullshit until the deadline approaches and this will happen: You'll be praised for your past accomplishments, patted on the head and told to go play with your toys somewhere else. Face: The decision's been made
 
Jim Hinton said:
There's also a big difference between a two bit demagogue and a representative who truly represents the best interest of their constituents. I know from lots of personal experience that both types of people are found in government. Encourage them to do the right thing and give them the space and support to do so. If they act like jerks, it isn't because we didn't care. If that's 'tilting at windmills' it sure beats going quietly into the night.

Jim
Click to expand...
There's only three words missing from your oratory: There's also a big difference between a two bit demagogue and a representative who truly represents the best interest of A MAJORITY OF their constituents. I know from lots of personal experience that both types of people are found in government. Encourage them to do the right thing and give them the space and support to do so. If they act like jerks, it isn't because we didn't care. If that's 'tilting at windmills' it sure beats going quietly into the night. You make iot sound like the fate of Lakewood Colorado depends on keeping C.R.A.S.H. in that park. It doesn't, trust me.
 
WhiskyTangoFoxtrot said:
There's only three words missing from your oratory: There's also a big difference between a two bit demagogue and a representative who truly represents the best interest of A MAJORITY OF their constituents. I know from lots of personal experience that both types of people are found in government. Encourage them to do the right thing and give them the space and support to do so. If they act like jerks, it isn't because we didn't care. If that's 'tilting at windmills' it sure beats going quietly into the night. You make iot sound like the fate of Lakewood Colorado depends on keeping C.R.A.S.H. in that park. It doesn't, trust me.
Click to expand...
No, I think the future of Lakewood has already been determined, that's why I no longer live there. That doesn't mean I should reward despotic behavior simply because I was expecting it.

Jim
 
Jim Hinton said:
No, I think the future of Lakewood has already been determined, that's why I no longer live there. That doesn't mean I should reward despotic behavior simply because I was expecting it.

Jim[/QUOTE
Despotic? Aren't we being a bit dramatic here? The community has to take into account the wishes of the majority, not those of a niche hobby. Deep sigh. I guess you're just one of those folks who brand those who put value on your pet projects despotic. And by the way: Complaining without offering a PRACTICAL solution is just whining. Expecting a community to be swayed by 1000 signers of a petition from God knows where isn't a PRACTICAL solution
Click to expand...
 
If Lakewood's misdeeds were isolated to this incident, I might be prone to agree. They have a long history of this type of behavior. As far as a practical solution, the solution is pre-existing. Leave the club alone. They're not hurting anyone. Like MOST of the people on this forum, they go out and make a living, pay their taxes, and want to be left alone to enjoy their lives.

Jim
 

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