Sea Tiger

Temp is 82
Humidity is 38
Sprayed inside connex with door open
sprayed a light coat followed almost immediately by flow coat
can about 12 inches from rocket

It's the same technique I've been using. Up until now my only problems with the paint is that I would get some sand blown on it or a bug would land on it and the paint takes so long to dry something like that is a big set back.





Oh, you might be wondering why I don't see this while it's going on? Well my glasses are bi-focals and they are for mid and long distances. To read a book I have to take off my glasses. The distance I am from the rocket when spraying is not good for me to see details. If the model was another foot away I'd see a lot better

-Bob

Hmm. The source of your problem is not obvious to me here, but such paint issues can usually be traced back to some sort of application error.

Just for curiosity: what is a "connex", and when you say "sprayed a light coat followed almost immediately by flow coat" how soon is "almost immediately"?

Again, I have no immediate idea what the problem is here.

Sorry, I had 2 n's but it should have been just one. Anyway, a conex is a large metal box normally used for shipping but now people are using them for sheds and even building houses out of them.

Almost immediately means spraying a light coat starting at one end and working to the other while rotating the rocket for coverage. Once done a quick look to see if it has flashed, i.e. looks dull. Once it looks dull which is ussauly very quick because it's only a dusting, then a full coat.

-Bob

BABAR said:

Wow I didn't know the fat 24 mm C engines were available again. Good to know.

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"Heads-Up" . . .

According to the Estes website, only the C11-0, C11-3, & C11-7 motors are being produced. They do not list the C11-5 . . .

https://estesrockets.com/product-category/engines/large-engines/

I have also completely stopped using Rustoleum 2x (from Home Depot) for the exact same reason. I used to love it but recently I get dry spray WAY too often. I have switched to Krylon Colormaxx (from Lowes) and haven't had a bad coat yet. Just got done painting my Sirius Saturn V and the Krylon went down very well.

I must be living a charmed life, haven't had a single bad Rusto 2x experience yet. My biggest beef is the long cure time.

Bruiser said:

Here is how the rudder turned out. When I first sprayed it on, it reminded me of crinkle paint like you might use on engine valve covers but it laid down flatter as it dried. Now it looks like drywall texture...
View attachment 388853

This is Rustoleum American Accents 2X Ultra Cover Gloss Brilliant Blue. I need to figure out how to contact Rustoleum customer service for this one...

-Bob

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Did you tape off the rudder when you painted the rest of the rocket? Meaning when you painted the rudder....did you paint over primer or paint? This looks like an undercoat issue to me. If you painted over the grey auto primer then I don't know what this is. I use Rustoleum exclusively for years and have not seen this. Since it did not repeat the error on your other test piece...it would suggest it to be an issue with the substrate. Just my 2 cents. Rustoleum is a true enamel....and should be very forgiving.
Andrew

I also forgot to say I am very sorry this happened....I would be hopping mad too.
Andrew

neil_w said:

I must be living a charmed life, haven't had a single bad Rusto 2x experience yet. My biggest beef is the long cure time.

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Longer cure times mean better bond and a harder finish. I love the 5-10 day cure of Rustoleum's Regal Red and the Tan....the finish is very durable and can be buffed out even. Love it.
Andrew

Here's the whole paint process so far

1) sprayed rocket with rustoleum filler/primer
2) had some fuzzies from sanding cwf on spirals so sanded primer
3) sprayed another coat of primer for uniform coverage
4) wet sanded primer for nice, smooth finish
5) taped off bottom of rocket and sprayed on a color coat, came out good
6) that afternoon I taped off the rudder and sprayed with Brilliant Blue. Got the texture effect
7) next day tried to wet sand the brilliant blue hoping I could smooth it out and apply clear coat but I sanded thru. Also in the process of sanding some of the blue tinted water got on the primer and also got on the color coat. Was able to get most of it off with rubbing alcohol
8) tried the brilliant blue on some scraps and seemed good. Taped off rudder and re-sprayed. The first side came out pretty good but second side had the texture again
9) that afternoon I sanded the blue off and sprayed the rudder with filler/primer
10) this morning I taped off the bottom of the rocket and rudder then sprayed the dark gray color coat on the top. Light dusting first coat followed almost immediately with a flow coat. It seemed good at first but it went bad during the spray. I say that because the front part of the rocket is pretty smooth and that's where I started the flow coat.

Oh, just before I spray any paint I wipe the area down with rubbing alcohol to make sure it's clean.

That's where it's at now. I'm waiting for the paint to dry enough so I can try wet sanding it with 1000 grit. I'll decide what to do when I see the results of that. I figure that I will probably have to re-spray. If I do, I am afraid to use the 2X again... But, my research today showed me that all enamels are pretty much the same regarding recoat times, wet sanding times, curing times, etc.

I wish I could remember if these cans came from Wally world or Home Depot. It probably doesn't matter anyway.

-Bob

Bob
Okay.....step 5 to 6 is a potential problem step. You said that afternoon...if you had color on the rudder....you possibly didn't have enough time between coats. Not enough time for the paint to gas out. If I read this wrong I am sorry...
Also I have not used filler primer....so if that was not totally dry....like 2 days dry you still may have solvent leftover from the two coats. Wiping down with isopropyl also could have made your uncured paint "soft". These are just guesses. Personally I wait 1 to 2 days between coats on everything.
So sorry you are having troubles with your finish......I have had projects like this....it sucks man.
It will work out hang in there.
Andrew

Yep avoid 2x at all costs, unless your painting patio furniture

Step 8 also points to a possible contaminate on the surface. Or an area of thicker paint/primer that has not fully cured. Just a thought.....
Andrew

Tom said:

Yep avoid 2x at all costs, unless your painting patio furniture

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I have sprayed TONS of it since it came out with zero problems....if it works on furniture, I should work on rockets....just my experience and opinion. I think this is a prep issue not the paint....IMO
Andrew

Try Ace (hardware) Premium spray paint....also a very good paint. One of the best I have used.
Andrew

BSNW said:

I have sprayed TONS of it since it came out with zero problems....if it works on furniture, I should work on rockets....just my experience and opinion. I think this is a prep issue not the paint....IMO
Andrew

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I don't know that I have sprayed tons of it. I just know that in warm humid environments it tends to slather on, run. and take forever to cure.

But that's just my personal experience :

Tom said:

I don't know that I have sprayed tons of it. I just know that in warm humid environments it tends to slather on, run. and take forever to cure.

But that's just my personal experience :

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I feel bad you had that experience....I too haved used this paint in hot humid weather with no issues. Maybe it slathered, ran and took forever to cure because it was being sprayed on way too thick and heavy.

Since others have had both good and bad experiences with this paint and taking into consideration that the formula of the paint has not changed....the remaining variables are application technique and prep/substrate. If it runs...adjust your technique of spraying. Also, taking a long time to dry and cure is a function of tint load (darker colors dry slower), temp/humidity, thickness of coats and paint type. Enamels take longer than lacquers. Taking a long time to cure is a good thing.....for finish an durability. Anyway....just trying to help.

Your probably right, still I shy away from the 2X. Get better results with the Ace Premium. But that's just me I suppose.

Oh forgot to add that ACE is now carrying a new 'cheap' brand of spray paint called "Now". I have had mixed results with this paint. Seems like the darker colors work okay, but the gloss white required many coats for coverage and ended up drying gritty. Ended up sanding it down and applying the Ace Premium.

Okay.....step 5 to 6 is a potential problem step.
I may not have been clear. 5) I taped off the rest of the rocket and sprayed the bottom gray 6) I taped off the rest of the rocket and sprayed the rudder blue. I sprayed over primer that was several days old.

The paint didn't run. It came out of the can smoothly at first then was like splatter paint. The front of the rocket is nice and then it becomes, well, whatever you want to call it


The rocket has not had anything put on the primer other than the isopropyl alcohol I used to wipe it down. So let me ask this question... What does everyone use to wipe down the item they are about to paint immediately prior to painting it? I am willing to try something else.

-Bob

Tack cloth

https://www.amazon.com/Dura-Gold-Wo...h&qid=1563647455&s=gateway&sr=8-2-spons&psc=1

You can also make your own.

https://refinishingfurniture.net/how-to-make-a-tack-cloth/

Tomorrow is sanding day on the Sea Tiger. I did wet sand one wing with 1,000 today. Took quite a while and I didn't like the results so tomorrow it is going under the paper, 400 grit sandpaper, in prep for a new coat of paint.

-Bob

I just painted the second color on the Sea Tiger again. The only difference this time is the humidity is 22% and I used a tack cloth instead of the towel dampened with alcohol. It came out good as in no reactions or whatever. Had a little get under the tape in some tight corners but other than that--golden!

Now it'll sit until Monday when I start the prep for the third color. That'll be interesting because I made a paint mask with the Cricut. I've done some letter stencils before (on the Tempest), but this will go over the entire top of the Sea Tiger.

-Bob

Well the Sea Tiger is not dead. It's been sanded and repainted. I stopped using alcohol to wipe down just before spraying and switched to a tack cloth. The dark gray came out much better.

I cut the paint masks for the stripes with my Cricut and I learned not to do big masks. They are much easier to manage if they are smaller. Anyway, no problem with the black either.

By the way I sprayed a paper plate with primer and now I test all the paints on it immediately before spraying the model.

Now then, problems with the rudder again. So I did my test spray on the paper plate and it was fine. I sprayed one side of the rudder and it was fine. I moved to the other side and the paint started acting weird again. I immediately did another spray out on the paper plate and had the issue. The best way I can describe it is that the paint looks like scrubbing bubbles shower cleaner when it contacts the surface. I mean it bubbles up and the bubbles start to decrease in size but the paint starts drying before they can fully go away. Anyway, I sanded with 2,500 grit. I am going to try to paint the tiger head and other markings on then I'll clear coat it and see how it turns out.

Here's how she looks now:


-Bob

Nice build. Keep us updated on how it flies.

Sounds like it could have been some nozzle problems or improper propellant mix. Keep nozzles clean and switch out defective ones. Lot of shaking before shooting is good. The patience of a Jedi also helps.

I have ran my mindsim on your rocket and have arrived at a 98.5% chance that your asymmetrical design will be no problem given good flying conditions and a long rod or rail. Disclaimer: This was run on an Early 80's DOS machine with an 8088 processor and 256K ram. Mindsim completed while wearing unstructured white linen suit, neon shirt and boat shoes with no socks. Raybans on and Alan Parsons Project playing in the background. Such conditions could lead to a plus or minus 10% accuracy on mindsim results but still adhering to standard safety precautions.

Bruiser said:

So I think this is where Rustoleum and I part ways.
View attachment 388892

Pretty much the same results as with the blue. I think I am going to another brand of paint after this rocket. After this dries I'll try wet sanding it with some 1,000 and see what happens. If I can get it smooth enough without punching thru I will clear coat over it. Chances are that I am going to end up repainting...

I like the Duplicolor "color match" paints but the color selection is somewhat limited for scale projects. Autozone has the best selection in my area. The other problem is paint adhesion to plastic but they do make a promoter.

I am thinking about the Model Master paints at Hobby Lobby. Our HL just doesn't have a very large selection in the store.

I think I need to look on Amazon...

-Bob

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I use the same brand paint a lot and had never had that problem. Is the weather damp?