3D Printing Request for help with PETG

The Hatchbox PETG claims to be hydrophobic. I tried drying it once with disastrous results - though I was able to use the roll by cranking up the extruder pressure.

Regardless of hydro felicity, I’ve taken to keeping everything in desiccant boxes.

Wow, I just switched from Hatchbox to eSun (based on good eSun reviews here and elsewhere) and I can't get it to lay down the bed AT ALL. 230C. 265C (I was going to do a temp tower and it starts hot). At PLA bed spacing, at my PETG (Hatchbox anyway) spacing. At 40mm/s and 50mm/s. On a isopropyl cleaned bed, on a aquanet prepped bed. All on the creality magnetic flex bed at 75C - I don't want to demagnetize my bed.

If someone has more tricks, I'd like to hear them. Else I'll find a home for this spool and get new.

Charles_McG said:

Wow, I just switched from Hatchbox to eSun (based on good eSun reviews here and elsewhere) and I can't get it to lay down the bed AT ALL. 230C. 265C (I was going to do a temp tower and it starts hot). At PLA bed spacing, at my PETG (Hatchbox anyway) spacing. At 40mm/s and 50mm/s. On a isopropyl cleaned bed, on a aquanet prepped bed. All on the creality magnetic flex bed at 75C - I don't want to demagnetize my bed.

If someone has more tricks, I'd like to hear them. Else I'll find a home for this spool and get new.

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I print almost exclusively Esun PETG 80C bed 240C for all layers no strings, no bed adhesion problems nothing.
I am however a super freak about nothing ever touching my bed but plastic, no glues or sprays no finger prints "I have a magnetic flex bed" and wipe it down between every print with 99% ISO.
One of the biggest changes I made about a year ago was going to 99% ISO the difference between 91 and 99 is night and day. and 70 is basically pointless.

Locksmith said:

I print almost exclusively Esun PETG 80C bed 240C for all layers no strings, no bed adhesion problems nothing.
I am however a super freak about nothing ever touching my bed but plastic, no glues or sprays no finger prints "I have a magnetic flex bed" and wipe it down between every print with 99% ISO.
One of the biggest changes I made about a year ago was going to 99% ISO the difference between 91 and 99 is night and day. and 70 is basically pointless.

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Ok. Up to 80C and cleaned with Everclear (the highest purity I have, even if it's EtOH, not iPrOH). No go.
Brand new magnetic bed, raising the bed closer to the nozzle - just barely get adhesion, BUT
it's still lumpy, uneven extrusion that's not adhering to itself (except on the nozzle) and I can -hear- it snap and pop as it extrudes. And I just took it out of the bag this morning and put it in a dessicant box.

It shouldn't be snapping that is usually a sign of wet filament was it sealed when you got it? I have had amazon deliver a filament where the bag was punctured.
Nozzle height cant really help you with, Ive always printed a 50x50 1 layer square and if it tears perpendicular to the way its printed - lower it
if you cant pull it apart but it looks ugly raise it. I don't know what printer you have but having the ability to raise and lower the nozzle by micro meters whiles its printing make this process super fast.

The bag -seemed- intact.

I have an Ender 5. Height adjustment is manual, by feel.

FWIW, I've had great luck with Hatchbox PETG at 260C and 50C bed with blue painters tape (clean with 70% alcohol if you want the tape to forever adhere to the part). I upgraded my stock hot end to the E3D Titan Aero.

I was disappointed in the eSun PETG, filament coming off the spool and tangling, bad prints (layer shifts), can't find a way to make it print well. YMMV.

Joe Bruce said:

FWIW, I've had great luck with Hatchbox PETG at 260C and 50C bed with blue painters tape (clean with 70% alcohol if you want the tape to forever adhere to the part). I upgraded my stock hot end to the E3D Titan Aero.

I was disappointed in the eSun PETG, filament coming off the spool and tangling, bad prints (layer shifts), can't find a way to make it print well. YMMV.

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I print esun petg at 30mm/s with an E6D at 230C.

I had been printing Hatchbox PETG (White) okay, but I hoped to do better, stringing-wise.
On my Ender 5, the Hatchbox PETG settings I was using were:
245C (250C first layer)
75C bed temp.
102% flow (110% first layer flow)
6mm @ 25mm/s retraction
40mm/s print speed
0 fan first layer, 75% at 2mm
coasting for 0.1mm^3 after 0.3mm^3 at 90%
Light contact with paper leveling (done hot), Creality magnetic bed with no surface adjuncts, occasionally cleaned with 70% iPrOH.

I'm baking the eSun out and will see if it works better after I get rid of the snap, crackle, and pop in the nozzle.

Update:
After returning to an older Hatchbox PETG I still had around, I identified the problem and was able to roll forward to the eSun and get back to recalibrating and re-tweaking.

It was the extruder.

I had to increase the extruder tension to get through the Hatchbox roll I had damaged during drying. I figured I didn’t need the extra tension any more. I was wrong.

I did find that the so-call hydrophobic Hatchbox PETG does seem to pick up water if left lying around for long enough.
And that a ziplock with a little desiccant pack is insufficient storage.

3-5 days is enough for Hatchbox.

I was told to keep all filaments dry as they are all hygroscopic. I use Hatchbox PETG with little issues. 235 extrusion, 80 bed, 12mm retraction. A few strings, like dust bunnies but not bad. I print right on the glass bed with White Rain hair spray. e3D clone, use Cura 4.2.1.
Attached is a picture of a 5" CSM I printed but quit after 3 1/2 days because the feed roller became loose. Extra fine resolution, no support.

The Hatchbox PETG claims in its paperwork to be hydrophobic. Obviously that's relative. The eSun actually notes 'low hygroscopicity' in its paperwork.

The Hatchbox in a gallon ziplock freezer bag for several months was less wet than the eSun out of the box.

I have 4 desiccant spool boxes set up, so I can store it differently, now that I know.

I'm more surprized about the extruder tension. The rubber band I have holding the loading arm down keeps breaking (I think the cats chew on it) so I think I'll play with flipping the bottom screw around and making it adjustable.

Charles_McG said:

The Hatchbox PETG claims in its paperwork to be hydrophobic. Obviously that's relative. The eSun actually notes 'low hygroscopicity' in its paperwork.

The Hatchbox in a gallon ziplock freezer bag for several months was less wet than the eSun out of the box.

I have 4 desiccant spool boxes set up, so I can store it differently, now that I know.

I'm more surprized about the extruder tension. The rubber band I have holding the loading arm down keeps breaking (I think the cats chew on it) so I think I'll play with flipping the bottom screw around and making it adjustable.

Click to expand...

Just curious, what extruder do you have?

beeblebrox said:

Just curious, what extruder do you have?

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All aluminum upgrade for Ender.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07B96QMN2/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o04_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

You could also look into Sunlu brand we are having very good luck with it at local maker space. Its probably the cheapest brand on amazon but even are low end printers are having great results.

Locksmith said:

You could also look into Sunlu brand we are having very good luck with it at local maker space. Its probably the cheapest brand on amazon but even are low end printers are having great results.

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I upgraded my Ender 3 Pro with a SeeMeCNC EZRStruder. Although I am having problems that are stumping me. Can't print faster then 25mm/sec or get this skipping. See Video:
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1Ss0tm_sTIFekx2ekio7rnghlEsVcVGcg

beeblebrox said:

I upgraded my Ender 3 Pro with a SeeMeCNC EZRStruder. Although I am having problems that are stumping me. Can't print faster then 25mm/sec or get this skipping. See Video:
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1Ss0tm_sTIFekx2ekio7rnghlEsVcVGcg

Click to expand...

3 most common skipping related problems "IMO"
1. Gear tension to lose
2. extruder not calibrated <--Most common from my experience
3.nozzle not hot enough so its not melting fast enough, or poor thermal design - basically speaking you are shoving plastic down the nozzle faster then your nozzle can melt it.

If all your prints look good at slow speed then chances are its number 3, if smaller prints are good but larger arent then chances are its number 2. If its completely random and you have no idea why try number 1

Charles_McG said:

All aluminum upgrade for Ender.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07B96QMN2/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o04_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Click to expand...

That is not the best Extruder for a Creality. It does not have an adjustment for spring tension.

I would recommend: https://www.amazon.com/CHPOWER-Extrusion-Aluminum-Extruder-Upgrade/dp/B07RGBD2XJ

Locksmith said:

3 most common skipping related problems "IMO"
1. Gear tension to lose
2. extruder not calibrated <--Most common from my experience
3.nozzle not hot enough so its not melting fast enough, or poor thermal design - basically speaking you are shoving plastic down the nozzle faster then your nozzle can melt it.

If all your prints look good at slow speed then chances are its number 3, if smaller prints are good but larger arent then chances are its number 2. If its completely random and you have no idea why try number 1

Click to expand...

1. EZRStruder is used on high end machines like the SeeMeCNC Artemis $2000 printer, that is why a friend recommended it over the stock Ender extruder which (Like those ones mentioned above too...) have a problem with flexible materials spitting out the side. The EZR has a stronger spring and the teeth are a concave grind to grip the filament better than the straight brass one from the ender.
2. checked e-steps, got 99mm of material when expecting 100mm ... 1% not enough to be a concern, I am having to run slicer at 104% or I get underextrusion.
3. I am beginning to think I need to get an all metal hotend of higher quality. Basically I have needed to replace 80% of this god damn thing...should have gotten an American made quality machine in the first place...

I'm gonna add my 2 cents here:

Due to the buzz around PET-G, we decided to order a roll. E-sun brand, and run it thru our printer, with 'Benchy' as my test subject.

It failed. The filament gets stuck, binds up in the feeder. Mind you, our Fusion3 306 printer has a pretty long Bowden tube. I try a gain, with a few settings adjusted as suggested. Benchy is now taking over an hour to print, due to slow print speeds. Again, binding in the feed gear. I'm assuming that the filament is soft / malleable enough that the feed-retract-feed-retract process is causing kinks in the filament. So much so, that at one point, the kink turns into a bend, and a fold-over, which then wraps itself around the feed gear. Even a part we want failed in PET-G, a fairly robust & not overly complicated part..

We spoke to our supplier about the filament, and also that Fusion3 doesn't have E-Sun on their 'approved list. We got one that was.

again, same issues.

So, we have a roll of PET-G that will sit at the bottom of our cabinet. We'll be sticking with PLA & ABS.

For the record, Benchy prints fin in PLA and takes about 40 minutes..

When you pull the filament out, does it have evidence of getting folded like you described?

My issues dropped to a minimum when I upped the extruder lateral pressure- it wasn’t gripping the filament hard enough, so it slipped. End result is similar- it doesn’t feed.

44 hour print last week with eSun white PETG.

you may need to run PETG hotter than recommended, I run all brands at 260 with a 0.5 nozzle and 280 with a 1.2 nozzle
I also use capricorn tubing

Charles_McG said:

When you pull the filament out, does it have evidence of getting folded like you described?

My issues dropped to a minimum when I upped the extruder lateral pressure- it wasn’t gripping the filament hard enough, so it slipped. End result is similar- it doesn’t feed.

44 hour print last week with eSun white PETG.

View attachment 394772

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nice sample pack!!

And yes, I saw it was wrapped around the gear as I had to cut it out!! The machine also makes a horrid clicking sound when filaments get jammed.

As for temps, i was trying to stay within the temp specs. I had been told the initial failure was due to being too hot..

dr wogz said:

nice sample pack!!

And yes, I saw it was wrapped around the gear as I had to cut it out!! The machine also makes a horrid clicking sound when filaments get jammed.

As for temps, i was trying to stay within the temp specs. I had been told the initial failure was due to being too hot..

View attachment 394780 View attachment 394782

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Your best bet is upgrade your extruder...you should not need those extra high temps, that causes other problems. I run a bit slow, 35-40mm/sec at 230-240c for petg, even that is higher than the manufacturer recommends. but this gives better layer adhesion. I use 60c for bed temp, higher and the prints don't stick.

I’m at 250C, 40-50mm/sec, 75C bed.

Say Doc,

When you feed new filament in, do you hand feed it through the Bowden tube, and then push a few inches through? Does it come out in a smooth stream without too much pressure? Or are you using the hardware to do the change over, so you don’t have a feel for it with your own hands.

No, the filament is fed into the feed gear, which is attached ott the front of the machine. It then travels thru they Bowden tube automatically. the tube is pretty long, line about 16"

I've reduced the feed & retract speeds on the PETG setting to almost molasses, still binding. I've been talking to teh guys at Fusion3 in regards tot this as well.

some setting specs:
SImplify3D
245°C extruder
65°C bed
5mm retract
12000mm/min retract, with .4mm retract lift
1st layer height: 100%, width 100%, speed 40% (super slow!)
fan at 60% on 2nd layer & above
default printing speed at 2400mm/min (6000mm/min for ABS & PLA)
80% for outline underspeed, solid infill underspeed, and for support structure underspeed
with a forced retract between layers


From what I've been reading, PETG likes slow, and it likes to stick to itself, and is gooey & stringy. We're doing OK for PLA & ABS. not really any need for PETG, was just curious to try it due to teh fan-fare I've read..

Creality Ender/CR10 also have a substantial Bowden tube. And a lever on the extruder gear so you can open it up and hand feed it. So I have a feel for how much force it takes.

PETG doesn’t seem to like cooling. I don’t run with fan for either PLA nor PETG. Unless I’ve got fine stuff at the top.

But if you’re happy with the ABS, then maybe you don’t need PETG. I’ve got a magnetic bed, and don’t want to take it above 80C. And I’m printing in a room next to the kitchen - I’m fairly sure my wife would object to ABS.

Oh... one more thought: what kind of height above the bed do you set your nozzle at? I only do paper-sheet leveling, so I feel my way by friction. I find PETG likes a bigger gap than PLA. It doesn't like to be squished too hard.

Enough friction to crinkle the filament seems like a plugged nozzle to me. Except your other materials work.

Yet another 'one more thought': you've got 200mm/sec retraction set. While searching for tips, I've seen some pretty high retraction rates recommended - but I wonder about them. One of the tips that worked best for me was to -slow down- the retraction (Ender 5). I checked the Ender machine settings, and it has an extruder Vmax of 25mm/s. Now, I don't really think that you can yank the filament back so hard that it stretches or separates in the hot end and somehow causes a plug. But maybe I do think something near that. Especially if it runs it back in at 200mm/s.

More data points for those interested...

I print almost exclusively with eSUN PETG, but will be trying out some Prusament PETG soon. My settings are:

Prusa Mk3s printer
0.4 mm nozzle
textured Prusa powder coated print sheet

• First layer
  • 80 C Bed
  • 240 C extruder
  • 15 mm/s speed
  • 0.18 mm layer height (get a good squish on that first layer)
• All other layers:
  • 85C bed
  • 245C extruder
  • 20 mm/s
  • 0.20 mm layer height

I don't change filaments often and generally print a whole roll before changing, so I leave my filament on the printer for weeks/months at a time. I've only had one issue with a print that made me think moisture was a problem, so I bought a dehydrator. I am now printing with that same roll again after drying and it's printing just fine. But in general, eSUN seems to be quite fine for at least a few weeks at normal room temperature ambient conditions in my basement.

I recently changed colors from red eSUN to orange eSUN, and the orange had some issues with sticking to the print bed so I increased the bed temp from 70C/75C to 80C/85C and all the adhesion problems went away. I haven't had a single failed print at the above settings. PETG likes to be printed slow and hot.