Fritz Lang's Movie "Frau im Mond" space craft named Friede

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Tom Howe

Tom Howe

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I decided my first non kit rocket project would be a design by Hermann Oberth for Fritz Lang's movie "Frau im Mond" or translated "Woman in the Moon". My chosen scale for this build is 1/144. I based my project on Jon Rogers plan from his book "Space Ship Handbook" I really don't know how close it is to the actual 5 ft tall model built for Mr Lang's production. This can not be verified since the model was goose stepped away by the NAZI's after they believed it gave away too many of the Third Reich's secrets. Anyway here are my progress photo's. If there is interest I will clean up my plans and post them here.

Friede.gif 0f6ca43e942832362f9a8ae5da097e53.jpg 18fwyofpb2y9xjpg.jpg 20190806_190314_resized.jpg 20190806_190329_resized.jpg 20190806_231309_resized.jpg 20190806_231258_resized.jpg
 
The same guy that did the N-1 rocket Apogee sells (Altaira rocketry?) Made a larger clustered version of this if you want to check it out. (It had a bunch of 24mm holes in the back, I know that
 
Tom Howe said:
I decided my first non kit rocket project
Click to expand...

Nice design and model. Since this isn't a kit, what did you use / make the nose cone out of? Solid balsa or ?

Have you run the design through a simulator such as Open Rocket? I'm betting it's going to need a lot of nose weight to be stable.
 
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lakeroadster said:
Nice design and model. What did you use / make the nose cone out of? Solid balsa or ?

Have you run the design through a simulator such as Open Rocket? I'm betting it's going to need a lot of nose weight to be stable.
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I have the kit from Altair’s and you can get it on ebay for about $60 and there is about a lb. of lead weights in there
 
Not so sure about the nose weight. Those fins, even though they don't have much span, do have a lot of total area and bodaceous "sweep". Does anyone know what that two-channel hollow structure does, if anything? They might behave like tube fins.

(Hmmm, two parallel channels with only a thin septum in between. Let's call them "nasal fins".)
 
Daddyisabar said:
Nice! Good candidate for Quest D16-4 motor.
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I planned on a C6-5 for flight. I considred "D" size engines but I whimped out for the C series. Weight wise as is sits less engine, chute assembly and the final finish it weighs in at 105 grams or 3.6oz. Assembly and tweaking is still a work in progress.

Tom
 
Nose cone is a glue up of balsa block and then turned on my lathe to match the profile from the plan. Machining of the nose cone isn't complete. I am going to bore out a large percentage of the nose cone leaving a flat surface near the tip to add weight. Given how far back the fins extend and the weight placed as far forward as possible I am hoping additional weight will be minimal. At some point I will purchase some simulator software to evaluate my designs.
 
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kuririn said:
Tom, don't need to purchase software. Open Rocket is free.
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Really. Have a link? FYI I am a retread to this hobby with a 47 or so year gap.

When I was into rocketry (young tarts distracted me from the "path"around when I was 14 or so...) we had little info to work from. Aerodynamic testing as such came from one of the Estes Model Rocket News. Tie a string around the body tube and slide it on the tube fore and aft until you find the static CG. Once found the "noose" was tightened a bit and then you'd swing the model around (after installing a engine of course) on say 5 ft of string from your hand. If the model steadily pointed into the direction of spinning you could assume it would fly. If it tumbled you would add weight to the nose. Simple but if your friends saw you doing this they assumed you had evolved into a dork. When you're a kid its difficult to explain these concepts to another kid unless they too were into rocketry. At lease that was the deal where I grew up in Western MA. (FYI if you did anything other than play baseball, follow the Red Sox or go fishing you were considered weird...)

-T
 
jqavins said:
Not so sure about the nose weight. Those fins, even though they don't have much span, do have a lot of total area and bodaceous "sweep". Does anyone know what that two-channel hollow structure does, if anything? They might behave like tube fins.

(Hmmm, two parallel channels with only a thin septum in between. Let's call them "nasal fins".)
Click to expand...
I still have to complete the fin nasal passages. Lower fins that extend below the body tube are supposed to have the inner panels added. I'm a little concerned about hot exhaust. Thinking about possibly some very thin aluminum.20190810_133412_resized.jpg
 
jlabrasca said:
Oberth called them "steering vanes".

I think that you are probably right, they will act something like tube-fins.

There have been several flying versions of the model.

https://www.rocketreviews.com/paper-kit-friede-clive-davis.html
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I am not sure of the exact dimensions, but tube fins over a certain length/diameter ratio stop acting like tubes and start acting like solid cylinders. They still function for base drag, so they help stability but not nearly as much as shorter tubes.

To my knowledge (which is limited) Larry Brand seems to be, if not the king, at least the wizard when it comes to tune finned rockets

https://www.rocketreviews.com/larry-brand-page.html

You can see his tubes are close to a 1:1 ratio.

I think your rocket will be stable. Doesn’t look like a very large chute compartment, you could use a piston ejection system
 
Tom Howe said:
I still have to complete the fin nasal passages. Lower fins that extend below the body tube are supposed to have the inner panels added. I'm a little concerned about hot exhaust. Thinking about possibly some very thin aluminum.View attachment 390345
Click to expand...
Use a long rod (or micro button and a rail). Make sure your fins are well above the blast plate, I think it will be the reflected (deflected?) exhaust at ignition that will be the greatest risk from your jet.
 
Here you go:https://openrocket.info/
There are still a few (like me) who occasionally use the swing test and cardboard cutout method for testing stability. But they have limitations, software sims are the way to go now. And OR reads both .ork (Open Rocket) and .rkt (Rocksim) files.
I also lost interest while going from middle to high school (girls and cars). Came back about five years ago.
Cheers.
 
If anyone is interested in building a more beastly version (re: larger) let me know. I will donate the nose cone. It is a bit over 6" long and about 4" wide. I bought a body tube from eRockets but after looking at it close up I believe the body tube needs additional structural components, thus increasing the weight further. While I originally planned a larger model I thought better of it due to the weight and built the smaller version. It is a 1/100 scale to the Friede plan and would sit nicely next20190810_133454_resized.jpg 20190810_134849_resized.jpg to your Centuri Saturn 1B and Estes Apollo.
 
Tom Howe said:
I'm a little concerned about hot exhaust. Thinking about possibly some very thin aluminum
Click to expand...
Put some thin self adhesive metal tape on your inner panels (the kind they use in HVAC work). Also used on the boom of some boost gliders to prevent the wood from charring.
 
kuririn said:
Put some thin self adhesive metal tape on your inner panels (the kind they use in HVAC work). Also used on the boom of some boost gliders to prevent the wood from charring.
Click to expand...

kuririn said:
Put some thin self adhesive metal tape on your inner panels (the kind they use in HVAC work). Also used on the boom of some boost gliders to prevent the wood from charring.
Click to expand...

Al-you-mini-um as my wife's English nurse says... Good idea. I was thinking of getting an aluminum throw away baking tray and harvesting the metal, rollering it until flat and then bonding it over the balsa panels with contact adhesive or RTV.
You sir are brilliant!

Tom

PS: I still don't know what the nurse means when she tells me to "bugger off".
 
BABAR said:
I am not sure of the exact dimensions, but tube fins over a certain length/diameter ratio stop acting like tubes and start acting like solid cylinders. They still function for base drag, so they help stability but not nearly as much as shorter tubes.
Click to expand...

That is an interesting question. I suspect that there are more degrees of freedom here than the aspect ratio of the tubes. In any case, whether of not the septa/vanes/ducts do anything to move the COP aft, the fins extend a long way below the motor mount.

Tom Howe said:
Really. Have a link? FYI I am a retread to this hobby with a 47 or so year gap.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure I'd trust OpenRocket to handle the ducted fins.

Layne Pemberton (@Pem Tech on the forum) flew a big card-stock version and might be able to give some advice on the location of the COP.

https://currell.net/models/gall_page_template.php?model=gall_friede
 

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