Lakewood Colorado Shutting down C.R.A.S.H launches at Bear lake

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CoachSteve

CoachSteve

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What a shame - It sounds like the issue is complaints from people paying to rent the picnic area. Maybe the park sees the club as a threat to one of their revenue sources. Do club members pay for admission to the park?

Are there any local groups that fly with the club? TARC teams, Boy Scouts, CAP? Are any club members local business owners that would offer support?

The AMA has a formal flying site assistance program, not sure if NAR has something similar. Maybe the Tripoli outreach committee?

https://www.modelaircraft.org/sites/default/files/files/GettingandKeepingFlyingSitesFINAL2.pdf

Colorado does have a pretty big aerospace industry. Showing the club as STEM education might get support from some of the big organizations. The state even has an "Aerospace and Defense Industry Champion"

https://choosecolorado.com/key-industries/aerospace/

https://choosecolorado.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/Aerospace.pdf

https://www.spacecolorado.org/advocacy/stem/

Maybe the folks down in Penrose could offer a letter of support as well. As a last resort, the club could always offer to rent the "picnic area" for the launch. With a 30 year history it should be easy to dismiss any safety or fire concerns.
 
Yep - every car pays the same $10 to get into the park.
C.R.A.S.H hosts Boy scout troup launches every month year around - I hope they are doing what they can but i have not heard of any progress.
CRASH also adheres to "Dry weather" launch rules almost all year around (even this year where we are no where near dry :)
 
SCRA, NAR 430 launches in a ;large Los Angeles County regional park. The land is owned by the US Army Corps of Engineers since it is part of the Santa Fe Dam which is part of the flood control on the San Gabriel River (check it out on the satellite view from Google Maps).

The park is semi-empty in the "Winter" and we launch one Sat and one Sun each month. Between Memorial Day and Labor Day, the park can fill to capacity by 10 am or earlier, so we cannot use the park on Sundays in June, July and Aug.

We also pay rent to use the park. And we have to fill out the user agreement/contract and get special insurance certificates naming three different government entities. And we have a written permit from the Los Angeles County Fire Dept.

We follow the same rules at every launch site we have used: All rockets must launch AND LAND within the area we are permitted to use. I've seen people conduct launches in areas with picnic and playground areas nearby and the rockets flew over those areas and landed in those areas. I've heard reports on this or other forums of rockets landing on active soccer fields.

Safety First.

We have some fire department websites that have a link for "Model Rocket Safety" that simply redirects you to our club website.

I suggest approaching elected officials and parks management to establish an agreement with permits and fees and insurance etc. Bring letters from teachers and youth group leaders as required. Emphasize STEM. Any LockMart folks available to wirk the STEM angle? TARC/AIA and STEM jobs, economy?
 
According to the article in the op's link the shutdown will occur in 2020. I would encourage the CRASH folks to stay engaged with the city parks and rec folks. A 30 year track record should be used to refute some of the reasons given in the article for the code enforcement. Enlist the leadership of any school or youth groups that would be willing to lobby on behalf of the club. Stay positive and open to possible modifications to launch operations going forward.
 
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In Orange County CA we lost the R/C Airfield and Rocket area at Mike Square Park to yet another golf course. There were already two but apparently the OC elite and influential snobs decided a third golf course was more important (profitable) than allowing young people with an interest in aerospace to have a safe area to conduct their hobby.
 
Mike Helm said:
In Orange County CA we lost the R/C Airfield and Rocket area at Mike Square Park to yet another golf course. There were already two but apparently the OC elite and influential snobs decided a third golf course was more important (profitable) than allowing young people with an interest in aerospace to have a safe area to conduct their hobby.
Click to expand...
Actually, here is more info:

First the Hobby Area was open to the general public. Anyone could use it for model rocket launching in the model rocket launching area within the Hobby Area.

Then the County shut it down and prohibited all model rocket launches. Reason: Illegal and unsafe launches by 'lone wolf' types. Our NAR section used the site and we immediately started discussions to find out exactly WHY it was closed down and what could be done to re-open it to model rocket launching. We were shown several rockets that had crashed outside the Hobby Area onto (actually INTO) the golf course on the west side. This included models well above the posted power limit (80 N-s or F motor) and well above the then legal weight limit for Model Rockets. One had a motor made by "he who shall not be named" and it was an H. Several of the rockets crashed ballistically into the golf course and had to be dug out of the ground. They could have easily KILLED a golfer if they hit them in the head. Nobody was yelling "FORE".

The County Risk Management would absolutely NOT allow the area to be reopened to the general public since there was no way to prevent these incidents from happening again.

Our NAR section pleaded with County officials and had meetings and they INSISTED that the only way model rockets could be allowed is if a group supervised and controlled the launches and inspected every rocket and motor for safety and legal compliance. We asked if the same rules could be applied to multiple groups since that would result in more days and more recreation opportunities for the public. They said NO - they only wanted one single group to deal with. They also mentioned dealing with another group at another park who lied to them about power limits and they had to ban them from launching after they lied/violated.

So, the lawyers for the County wrote up an agreement, we signed it and got the required insurance certificates and we were able to reopen the model rocket area, but only for the supervised and controlled launches that our NAR section conducted. We stayed there until the entire hobby area was demolished and turned into more golf course. We then moved (1999?) to the MUCH better and larger regional park we currently use.
 
Open a dialog for ongoing discussions between the city officials and your club honchos. Find out exactly what the reasons were for the discontinuation. Further action will be predicated on that.
Our small club launches at sunrise on Sundays at our local park. No conflicts or complaints cuz the park is sparsely populated. By noon it is crammed. I don't mind getting up early to pursue my passion.
So +1 to the idea of being open to launch modifications. Either earlier in the day or later toward dusk.
Consider hiring samb as negotiator during any appeals process. He always seems to calm things down.:D
Laters.
 
Sorry to hear this.

About 4 years ago, I lost my flying site. Not due to anything I did but losing a great flying field sucks. Unfortunately I never found anything suitable so about 2 months ago I just said to heck with it. I sold ALL my rockets, motors and launch equipment to a good friend of mine and am done with the hobby. Something I thought would never happen but it did and there was nothing I could do to change that.
 
From the Denver Channel article:

"the park has received multiple complaints each year about the rockets from other park users because of the noise and visual impacts and the effect they have on the enjoyment of the park by other park visitors"

Counter-complaints - Screaming brats have "noise and visual impacts" on park enjoyment. People playing sports of any kind, especially organized sports, have "noise and visual impacts" on park enjoyment for people who don't give a rat's *** about sports. Any motorized boating, manned or RC? That's noisy, continuously vs. the seconds of rocket motor thrusting.

"The launch site is near a picnic shelter that visitors can pay to reserve, and the noise and crowds from the rocket launches weren’t compatible with the use at the picnic shelter."

There's no place else in the park to allow launches?

"Lastly, the rockets poise a fire danger, and allowing that activity increases fire danger and creates too much risk for the park."

Gas or electric grilling only in that picnic shelter? Smoking (of anything) or vaping banned everywhere in the park and strictly enforced? They don't have announced Fire Marshal(?) bans on ANY outdoor flames during serious fire hazard days anyway?
 
kuririn said:
...
Consider hiring samb as negotiator during any appeals process. He always seems to calm things down.:D
Laters.
Click to expand...

HA !!! That's me kuririn, "Mr. Let's Get Along". I think that a 30 year track record of responsible flying (I hope) is a basis for continued discussion with the park commissars. The rocket club should at least be treated like any other group looking to use shared community resources.
 
Biggest obstacle is the city municipal code specifically bans rocket launching. Perhaps a grass roots movement may be the best option. I agree with other posters' solutions; club history, insurance certs, membership requirements, restricted launch times, STEM benefits etc.
 
With all the open ground out your way it might be best to find a new and better launch site. I would guess your fighting a lost battle with the city. Or fly with another club.
 
I am really sorry to hear that. I flew with CRASH for a number of years, real good folks. We all paid admission to enter the park and fly. The picnic areas are not very close to the field, most folks out there seemed to think that we were entertaining. There was an incident or two, one pretty fair fire, but we discovered that it happened right before they had scheduled a controlled burn. Our accidental fire was actually a blessing in disguise. Overall CRASH was an excellent addition to the area, they were mostly known for NAR contests and outreach. They were the only sanctioned and properly operated rocket club operating in the Denver metro area. This is going to make life a lot tougher on the Boy Scouts and the TARC kids. At least a couple of TARC teams went to the finals based on launches with CRASH. Rocketry in the Denver area will take a major blow from this.

The government officials who brought this about have achieved no good. I moved out of that area a few years ago. I can take solace that none of those government entities are reaping the benefits of my tax and use money. Hopfully, the CRASH folks can find a new place to set up and operate. Two words for the government types who did this. They are not 'Happy Birthday'.

Jim
 
If you are going to do public testimony at city council meetings or meet with city councilmembers, bring current or former TARC students along. Articulate teenagers get far, far more respect than adults. I'd also encourage you to talk about the importance of the launch site in stories. Who benefited and how? What did launching mean to them? These stories are especially powerful coming from students, especially if you can get students who went to TARC Nationals. You need to convince the city first that rocketry is important, then deal with the details of how you can do that safely and with respect for other park users. If you don't convince them that it's important first, they have no reason to work with you.
 
The first week of July, 2007 I spent in Juarez, Mexico with a short term mission team helping to build a church in the middle of one of the most drug-infested cities in the world. It was very hard work; the temperature climbed to 120* F on our hottest day there, and my wife sprained her ankle while playing soccer (on desert hard pack) with some local teenagers.

But my best memory of that trip was the evening of July 4. They bused us to the US border, where we sat in a state park and watched the fireworks across the Rio Grande in El Paso, TX. That was the cure to all my homesickness!
 
neil_w said:
Lack of availability of launch sites is IMHO a big impediment to the growth of this hobby. Don’t know what can be done about it though.
Click to expand...
Ain't that the truth. When I first got into the hobby, before I knew about clubs, I used to drive around my general area looking for fields. There just weren't any that were big enough that weren't being used for crops, and I wasn't keen on flying in the winter. Even now, I sometimes see a field and get that urge to check it out, only to find out it's a cemetery or there is a soy crop growing, or something.

Lack of large, clear fields and permission to use them is THE #1 IMPEDEMENT to this hobby. I thank God everyday for MDRA and the incredible flying fields we have. I have no idea what we'll do when the owners eventually decide to retire and sell.
 
Bat-mite said:
By that logic, then every Independence Day fireworks exhibit should be shut down.
Click to expand...
Their "logic," not mine. The city complaints listed in the Denver Channel article are ABSURD and are simply examples of how a minority hobby/sport always gets the shaft by bureaucratic morons, even one which, unlike probably every other activity in the park, is EDUCATIONAL. Be sure bring up "diversity and inclusion in park activities" when dealing with them.
 
Support the cause by calling the office of Lakewood City Manager, Kathy Hodgson, 303-987-7050. Email to kathod@ lakewood. Org.

Crashonline.org is club website.

Lakewood City council meeting September 9. Any local support will help.
 

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