EVENT NYPower 22 - May 25-27 (Memorial Day Weekend) - Geneseo, NY

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You are missing the point. I am not engaging in a Geneseo versus Potter debate so I'll get to the point. The conditions at NY Power 2019 were abhorrent. People should be been warned about the conditions ahead of time so that they could have decided whether or not to attend. I totally do not except the rationale that people that live hundreds of miles away should have been monitoring the weather and known about the conditions of the field. That is ludicrous and a pathetic excuse and a prime example of defecting the blame. I cannot accept the fact that there is no one living close by the field that could have reported the conditions to club officials. The website states mowed field and I believed that. Based on that I traveled hundreds of miles with my family and spend hundreds of dollars. The club has absolutely no credibility. What assurance do people have that the conditions will not be horrible at future launches? They should stand up and admit they dropped the ball otherwise how are they going to do a better job of communicating field conditions to people driving long distances and spending money on gas and hotels? I was lied to and my memorial day holiday was ruined.

If you paid for a vacation at a resort and the conditions were much less than you were promised you would be upset and demand some level of refund.
 
Here is my NYPOWER report. My son and I drove 320 miles one way (like we do every year since 2011), got in later than expected Friday night taking a new and very scenic route up through the Southern Tier. Stopped at an small ice cream place in Perry for a great treat.

This year I wanted to test a couple revisions of the Marsa Gyro Module. Saturday we prepped some electronics but mostly went up and down the line chatting with friends and made some new ones. Many are great people I get to see only once per year. After chilling on Saturday Michael and I had a great dinner at Tom Wahls, great burgers and fries. If we didn't fly rockets this makes the trip for us.

First flight on Sunday was my workhorse test vehicle Stella Blanco, a 4" Wildman Darkstar Extreme. Flying on Loki K830 Sparky motor to about 5500 feet. Thanks to Michael Pitfield from Toronto (one of the great people who I get to see once or twice a year)who loaned me a Loki nozzle washer that I left in Ohio.

upload_2019-6-7_22-45-43.png

Unfortunately my Tilt Gadget was flying an old version of Marsa firmware and no data was recorded. Doh! Rocket landed about 3/4mile away in the farm field. Paid my son $25 to retrieve the rocket. Win-win. Went to Tom Wahls for dinner and ice-cream again. And reprogrammed the Marsa between the main course and desert.

Sunday night at the hotel I prepped the CTI L3200(!) motor that would fly the next day. Glued the grains into the liner and got sticky Gorilla glue on my fingers (also left the rubber gloves in Ohio, next to the Loki nozzle washer). This test flight would test the acceleration sensitivity of the gyro chips used on the tilt model. Fortunately the winds were light at the ground and at altitude as predicted by Windy.com the night before. Stella Blanco flew again in Evan Brown mode to about 9000' with 37g's of launch acceleration. Recovery was in the farm field behind us, short walk, still gave Michael $25 to get the rocket. The good news is that the gyro data was solid, no evidence of acceleration induced error. Look at the VMAX flame.
upload_2019-6-7_23-4-54.png
That was our last flight before packing up and driving back to Ohio. (But not before stopping at Tom Wahls for lunch and ice-cream). We had a great time! Highlights:
Visiting with great people including Ken Allen, Clunes, GYoung, Shatell, Rick Wildman CT, the MIT Rocket Team!!, Wagstaff's and the Ottawa gang and many more. Scored a classic new AMW 75-7600 motor from Ken Allen in exchange for a used AT 29-240 motor and a little cash. Rocket launches are so much more than just flying rockets...
 
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Anthony DeMarco said:
My family and I look forward to attending the memorial day launch every year. This was our third and final year in a row. We pay for a hotel, a SUV rental, meals and not to mention time taken off from work. Two years ago the grass was ankle high which made it difficult to find low power rockets. Believe me I do appreciate the effort of the MARS club. The mistake is that too many assumptions were made on the part of the club. The grass was extremely high. I'm not a landscaper but I have to believe that the grass had not been mowed for well over a month. When you know that people will be traveling hundreds of miles and paying for hotels you have to make sure they will not have to deal with such adverse conditions. You are assuming that rocketeers would attend the event even if we knew of the conditions. I would not have done so. I would have forfeited the $150 for one nights stay at the hotel and saved the cost of the SUV rental and stayed home. As it was we left to go home on Sunday morning. It cost me $700 to launch four rockets on Saturday. You cannot post mowed grass on your web site when it is knee high this year and ankle high in 2017. Perhaps the NAR should hold sections to some kind of truth in advertising standard. Next year we will have a back yard BBQ on memorial day and attend the June UURF launch with is closer to home.
Click to expand...
While you are in Potter be sure to visit the Finger Lakes. The wineing is great there too!
 
Anthony DeMarco said:
You are missing the point. I am not engaging in a Geneseo versus Potter debate so I'll get to the point. The conditions at NY Power 2019 were abhorrent. People should be been warned about the conditions ahead of time so that they could have decided whether or not to attend. I totally do not except the rationale that people that live hundreds of miles away should have been monitoring the weather and known about the conditions of the field. That is ludicrous and a pathetic excuse and a prime example of defecting the blame. I cannot accept the fact that there is no one living close by the field that could have reported the conditions to club officials. The website states mowed field and I believed that. Based on that I traveled hundreds of miles with my family and spend hundreds of dollars. The club has absolutely no credibility. What assurance do people have that the conditions will not be horrible at future launches? They should stand up and admit they dropped the ball otherwise how are they going to do a better job of communicating field conditions to people driving long distances and spending money on gas and hotels? I was lied to and my memorial day holiday was ruined.

If you paid for a vacation at a resort and the conditions were much less than you were promised you would be upset and demand some level of refund.
Click to expand...

You went to a rocket launch and not club med. If you expect pristine conditions, this is the wrong hobby for you. Weather often gets in the way.

I have had a request to lock the thread due to your complaining. I am going to avoid doing so. Please take the complaining offline or in an email of private message with the leadership of this club. The event thread on the forum is not a place for you to belly wack about getting a refund.

Great launch site. I hope to get there again some day.
 
Those with power silence the voices of change. I fully agree that someone should’ve gone out to the field and updated the site for the conditions. It’s the least they could’ve done given all the advertising for the launch. While the club itself is probably full of fun people, I recall this isn't the first time a launch at that field had issues. Remember NSL last year and the one or two 1/4” rods that screwed many people over from flying? People weren’t happy then that nobody made sure there were enough rods. This hobby is full of people telling others to find a new hobby (the NAR group on FB is the worst for that) and it paints a bad picture on the hobby. Remember that before you tell someone to find a new hobby because they might just do that and tell others not to join. I would...
 
Anthony DeMarco said:
I have been a rocketeer for 17 and well aware that conditions are not always what you would like them to be.
Click to expand...

Arsenal78 said:
I fully agree that someone should’ve gone out to the field and updated the site for the conditions.
Click to expand...

How many regional launches have you helped organize? How many weather reports have you personally gathered and disseminated to inbound fliers?

Not intending to stir anything up, just trying to remind ( and remember myself! ) that it's easy, in hindsight, to spend other peoples' time.
 
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Padseven said:
While you are in Potter be sure to visit the Finger Lakes. The wineing is great there too!
Click to expand...
Actually the whining here is pretty good also!
jderimig said:
Here is my NYPOWER report. My son and I drove 320 miles one way (like we do every year since 2011), got in later than expected Friday night taking a new and very scenic route up through the Southern Tier. Stopped at an small ice cream place in Perry for a great treat.

This year I wanted to test a couple revisions of the Marsa Gyro Module. Saturday we prepped some electronics but mostly went up and down the line chatting with friends and made some new ones. Many are great people I get to see only once per year. After chilling on Saturday Michael and I had a great dinner at Tom Wahls, great burgers and fries. If we didn't fly rockets this makes the trip for us.

First flight on Sunday was my workhorse test vehicle Stella Blanco, a 4" Wildman Darkstar Extreme. Flying on Loki K830 Sparky motor to about 5500 feet. Thanks to Michael Pitfield from Toronto (one of the great people who I get to see once or twice a year)who loaned me a Loki nozzle washer that I left in Ohio.

View attachment 385350

Unfortunately my Tilt Gadget was flying an old version of Marsa firmware and no data was recorded. Doh! Rocket landed about 3/4mile away in the farm field. Paid my son $25 to retrieve the rocket. Win-win. Went to Tom Wahls for dinner and ice-cream again. And reprogrammed the Marsa between the main course and desert.

Sunday night at the hotel I prepped the CTI L3200(!) motor that would fly the next day. Glued the grains into the liner and got sticky Gorilla glue on my fingers (also left the rubber gloves in Ohio, next to the Loki nozzle washer). This test flight would test the acceleration sensitivity of the gyro chips used on the tilt model. Fortunately the winds were light at the ground and at altitude as predicted by Windy.com the night before. Stella Blanco flew again in Evan Brown mode to about 9000' with 37g's of launch acceleration. Recovery was in the farm field behind us, short walk, still gave Michael $25 to get the rocket. The good news is that the gyro data was solid, no evidence of acceleration induced error. Look at the VMAX flame.
View attachment 385354
That was our last flight before packing up and driving back to Ohio. (But not before stopping at Tom Wahls for lunch and ice-cream). We had a great time! Highlights:
Visiting with great people including Ken Allen, Clunes, GYoung, Shatell, Rick Wildman CT, the MIT Rocket Team!!, Wagstaff's and the Ottawa gang and many more. Scored a classic new AMW 75-7600 motor from Ken Allen in exchange for a used AT 29-240 motor and a little cash. Rocket launches are so much more than just flying rockets...
Click to expand...
Nice report JD. It was great seeing you two again!
After reading the concerns about “ankle high grass” two things immediately come to mind. The first is the individual apparently hasn’t been to many large launches as he would have a different perception of the general flying conditions Mother Nature has been giving all fliers and fields the last couple of seasons. Having been on the organizing committee for LDRS 34 at Potter I clearly remember how the field and flying was impacted by the rain we encountered during that event.
I also am reminded of TARC a couple of years back where boots were needed to get through the red mud that was encountered. Despite that the launch was successful and the students had an enjoyable time, with plenty of stories to tell, especially those wearing only sneakers. :)
The second point is given his concerns he should consider limiting flying his modrocs to local parks/clubs where he can be assured the conditions will meet his expectations by visiting the field before launch day.
Given there were apparently previous concerns about the height of grass this individual could have simply sent an email to the website to confirm field conditions, which would have been addressed Friday, early evening after setup. Emails would have been responded to, as several concerning field conditions actually were. Changing the NYPOWER website verbiage could not have occurred that evening/weekend based on our webmaster’s availability.
Despite his allegations we don’t have people living near the field (any more) that would be available to check on it before setup. If we had we certainly wouldn’t have wound up getting our vehicles stuck! ;)
The website’s statement on the mowed grass has been there for a number of years. Given we have been there 26 years, it more than adequately represents field conditions with just a few rare exceptions.
This sort of blaming others instead of taking some personal accountability is not unusual these days.
Arsenal78 said:
Those with power silence the voices of change. I fully agree that someone should’ve gone out to the field and updated the site for the conditions. It’s the least they could’ve done given all the advertising for the launch. While the club itself is probably full of fun people, I recall this isn't the first time a launch at that field had issues. Remember NSL last year and the one or two 1/4” rods that screwed many people over from flying? People weren’t happy then that nobody made sure there were enough rods. This hobby is full of people telling others to find a new hobby (the NAR group on FB is the worst for that) and it paints a bad picture on the hobby. Remember that before you tell someone to find a new hobby because they might just do that and tell others not to join. I would...
Click to expand...
 
Here's my take. Did I love the high wet grass? Nope. I made the decision to. Not fly my Cyclotron because of it being wet. BUT.. ...this was my twin great nieces 1st ever launch. They each launched on C6-5 motirors for GREAT, high flights for their first rockets ever. We traipsed through the grass a LONG ways to recover their rockets. As these 2 nine year olds sat eating their lunches they said "This is the best day EVER! “
 
cwbullet said:
You went to a rocket launch and not club med. If you expect pristine conditions, this is the wrong hobby for you. Weather often gets in the way.

I have had a request to lock the thread due to your complaining. I am going to avoid doing so. Please take the complaining offline or in an email of private message with the leadership of this club. The event thread on the forum is not a place for you to belly wack about getting a refund.

Great launch site. I hope to get there again some day.
Click to expand...

You should have locked it when you had the chance... :)
 
mrtriton said:
Here's my take. Did I love the high wet grass? Nope. I made the decision to. Not fly my Cyclotron because of it being wet. BUT.. ...this was my twin great nieces 1st ever launch. They each launched on C6-5 motirors for GREAT, high flights for their first rockets ever. We traipsed through the grass a LONG ways to recover their rockets. As these 2 nine year olds sat eating their lunches they said "This is the best day EVER! “
Click to expand...

FYI my decision to not fly was solely due to the rain. Who cares about the grass? Softer landings!!!
 
Thanks Chuck for “Cleaning up” the thread!

I would’ve have responded sooner but we had a launch this weekend at the beautiful, now freshly mowed field. Anthony, I’m sorry your expectations weren’t met this past NYPOWER. MARS does pride itself in hosting great events but you can’t please everyone, I think we do the best humanly possible.
I was going to call you tonight personally to discuss this with you BUT I can’t find an Anthony DeMarco (or any DeMarco for that matter) on any of the waivers (which are REQUIRED) or any flight cards, you said “you flew 4 rockets” did you fly under someone else’s name?

I find it interesting that you created an account in the name Anthony DeMarco shortly before whining about the conditions on the field.

MaryBeth Clune President MARS Club
Launch Director NYPOWER 20, 21, 22 NSL-2018
L3
 
Arsenal78 said:
I fully agree that someone should’ve gone out to the field and updated the site for the conditions. It’s the least they could’ve done given all the advertising for the launch.
Click to expand...
This club is spread out of a LARGE geographic area 3 of the 4 board member live 1.5hrs away, Sorry its almost always mowed!

Arsenal78 said:
I recall this isn't the first time a launch at that field had issues. Remember NSL last year and the one or two 1/4” rods that screwed many people over from flying?
Click to expand...
The MARS site has listed for years the fact all HP rockets must fly from a rail, the NSL site had a page that listed the unique MARS field requirements and it was talked about quite a bit on all social media. We even went to the point of personally inviting Randy Miliken of Rail-Buttons.com to sell .25 cent rail buttons and he assisted flyers with installation... again we do all that is humanly possible.

Every field has its Great points and Not so great points.
 
Rocketmom said:
This club is spread out of a LARGE geographic area 3 of the 4 board member live 1.5hrs away, Sorry its almost always mowed!


The MARS site has listed for years the fact all HP rockets must fly from a rail, the NSL site had a page that listed the unique MARS field requirements and it was talked about quite a bit on all social media. We even went to the point of personally inviting Randy Miliken of Rail-Buttons.com to sell .25 cent rail buttons and he assisted flyers with installation... again we do all that is humanly possible.

Every field has its Great points and Not so great points.
Click to expand...

Thanks. I am gonna have to make the fields in NY in the next couple of years.
 
Rocketmom said:
Thanks Chuck for “Cleaning up” the thread!

I would’ve have responded sooner but we had a launch this weekend at the beautiful, now freshly mowed field. Anthony, I’m sorry your expectations weren’t met this past NYPOWER. MARS does pride itself in hosting great events but you can’t please everyone, I think we do the best humanly possible.
I was going to call you tonight personally to discuss this with you BUT I can’t find an Anthony DeMarco (or any DeMarco for that matter) on any of the waivers (which are REQUIRED) or any flight cards, you said “you flew 4 rockets” did you fly under someone else’s name?

I find it interesting that you created an account in the name Anthony DeMarco shortly before whining about the conditions on the field.

MaryBeth Clune President MARS Club
Launch Director NYPOWER 20, 21, 22 NSL-2018
L3
Click to expand...
 

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My wife always says I don't know when to keep my mouth shut so...
I haven't been involved with the hobby very long and my experience with field conditions is limited. I'll admit I was a little surprised by the height of the mowed grass field. After venturing out to retrieve a rocket I quickly realized how futile it would have been too drive out there with any kind of heavy mowing equipment. That area near the pads was the only area I remember with high grass, there were plenty of flights that landed in the areas of corn stubble or even father away in some caseso_O. Went to Tractor Supply and picked up a pair of rubber boots.
I still thought the field was great. What I normally have access to is tiny in comparison. I'll take grass any day over arm pit high blackberry and poison ivy.
Found some good places to eat, meet some cool people, had a great time, and even flew a couple of rockets.
Was back this weekend; the grass is cut,
which makes it an even more amazing place to fly.
 
Here' my report...
Left Friday at 8, pulling my trailer behind me. Stopped after midnight for a nap, got up at about 2:30, drove to the site. Surprised to see everything set up at 5:30, took another nap. The weather gods weren't with us so I got to unpack and pack 3 times. Got to meet a lot of great guys.
Saturday was bright and sunny, beautiful day. Sold stuff and watched lots of fun flights. Had dinner with the other venders before going back for the night flight. Flew my Bad Azz Myzztic and got it back, along with 3 other rockets. Yes we marched thru the grass...that's rocket life.
Sunday was even nicer. Watched a bunch of other nice flights until leaving at 3, for another 6.5 hour trip back.

All in all, a good weekend.
 
People on both sides of the fence make some good points. Some statements from both sides were a bit harsh and defensive. Perhaps people can make their own decisions of what launches to attend based on conversations with people that have gone to other fields and events. That way they know what to expect based on past experiences be it good or bad. I always wanted to go to Black Rock but after talking to Robert and Gloria I'll pass on that. After correspondence with the president of CATO, I'm going to check out their next launch.

In 2004 I attended LDRS in Geneseo. At that time my boys were young so in addition to rockets we visited the Mt Morris Dam and Letchworth State Forest. One time a MMMSC launch was cancelled at the last minute. By the time we left a deserted field and went though Summersworth, the weather improved so we attended their county fair.

This year we only attended the Saturday launch. Once again we had backup plans. My motto, "It's note just about the rockets." As my friend Sal once told me, "At this point the social aspect of a hobby becomes more important than the hobby itself."

Geneseo is a wonderful area and the people at the Quality Inn are so nice as are the MARS crew. We won't be able to attend NY Power 2020 because of a family wedding in Canada.
 
deangelo54 said:
This year we only attended the Saturday launch. Once again we had backup plans. My motto, "It's note just about the rockets." As my friend Sal once told me, "At this point the social aspect of a hobby becomes more important than the hobby itself."
Click to expand...
The social aspect has become a big deal for me now as well.
I can see how ego's can create bad politics and you end up with trolls in forums....
 
CMASS has members meetings twice a month. I even hosted a couple in my city. I like getting out and hanging with club members. Sometimes we actually talk about rockets. Our RSO attends too so if I'm working on a project I can have him inspect it before I go on with the build. New people attend and I enjoy helping them out and answering their questions.

I'm addicted to rocketry. I can't even remember the last time I missed a CMASS or MMMSC launch. If there is too much of a gap between launches I go to RIMRA launches in RI. If I know the conditions are going to be adverse, I would like a heads up so that I can plan accordingly or not even go if the place is a mud pit or that there are rocket eating crops during a certain time of year.

In 2017 the grass at Geneso was about 10 inches high. Recovery was challenging for smaller rockets but it certainly did not deter me. If I knew of the conditions this year I would have given a lot of thought about whether or not to attend. Even now I'm not sure what I would have done. The wife and kids had a good time and it was great time spent together as a family. I have two years to decide if I'm going back or not because of the wedding next year.
 

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