Black Powder Residue Cleaning

I recently purchased a Raptor CO2 ejection system. It works great and keeps the rocket very clean. However, the same isn't true for inside the Raptor housing. There is quite a bit of BP residue on the charge cup, plunger, spring and inside the housing. It is really hard to get clean even after just a few hours (ie. after I get home from the launch). I was thinking of soaking the parts, but not sure what to use. Any suggestions?

Thanks,
Jeff

phyzzld said:

I recently purchased a Raptor CO2 ejection system. It works great and keeps the rocket very clean. However, the same isn't true for inside the Raptor housing. There is quite a bit of BP residue on the charge cup, plunger, spring and inside the housing. It is really hard to get clean even after just a few hours (ie. after I get home from the launch). I was thinking of soaking the parts, but not sure what to use. Any suggestions?

Thanks,
Jeff

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Plain water or soap and water.

Non chlorinated brake cleaner

Steve Shannon said:

Plain water or soap and water.

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That. Worked for firearms for hundreds of years.

Steve Shannon said:

Plain water or soap and water.

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Boiling water rinse, will actually cause the part to self dry as well.

Steve Shannon said:

Plain water or soap and water.

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Hot tap water and dish soap. Anything other is probably toxic/bad for you. Seems like a bad thing to clean metal parts with water, but it's a tried and true method. It just works...

Windex

Hoppe's 9 gun cleaner

Thanks to all for the great advice! Much appreciated!

I have the same issue, specifically around the exhaust ports. I just switched to Tripple7 over The alternative 3f BP or Pyrodex P, with hope that it makes cleanup easier as it is water soluble. The one item that makes the biggest difference for me is the Mr Clean Magic Eraser.

mpitfield said:

I have the same issue, specifically around the exhaust ports. I just switched to Tripple7 over The alternative 3f BP or Pyrodex P, with hope that it makes cleanup easier as it is water soluble. The one item that makes the biggest difference for me is the Mr Clean Magic Eraser.

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I suspect there is some actual magic in those things. Nothing should work that well..

Wallace said:

I suspect there is some actual magic in those things. Nothing should work that well..

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Yeah they generally work really well on cleaning anodized aluminum.

mpitfield said:

I have the same issue, specifically around the exhaust ports. I just switched to Tripple7 over The alternative 3f BP or Pyrodex P, with hope that it makes cleanup easier as it is water soluble. The one item that makes the biggest difference for me is the Mr Clean Magic Eraser.

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Yes, that is exactly the trouble spot I have as well. I will try the Magic Eraser. Thanks.

Not wanting to hijack my own thread, but thought I should share this since it was brought up. Cameron Tinder has been very helpful and responsive to my questions about using the Raptor system. I recently asked him about Pyrodex RS since I was having trouble finding Pyrodex P locally. Below is his response.


Hi Jeff,

This is VERY important! DO NOT USE PYRODEX OF ANY SORT! It does not share the burn characteristics of BP at the low pressure that the RAPTOR runs at!

Use the following in order of preference:

1) 4F BP (Also known as ffffG Black Powder) This is what is shipped with the rocket motors for motor deployment!
2) 3F BP (AKA fffG) Commonly used for BP pistols & revolvers
3) Triple 7 (Triple Seven) Must be 3F equivalent intended for revolvers! This works as well as 3F BP and is what I use!
4) 2F BP (AKA ffG) Must be ground finer, 1/2 teaspoon at a time, in a ceramic bowl!

No other pyro powder should be used!

To your question, Pyrodex P, while intended to be used in pistols, will not develop enough pressure to adequately puncture the CO2 ctg. While it will work, it will work POORLY! Pyrodex RS may not work at all or at very least will work very poorly!


Regards,

Cameron


I've been using 4F BP since I couldn't get Triple 7 locally in time for the launch. Looks like I need to switch though.

phyzzld said:

Yes, that is exactly the trouble spot I have as well. I will try the Magic Eraser. Thanks.

Not wanting to hijack my own thread, but thought I should share this since it was brought up. Cameron Tinder has been very helpful and responsive to my questions about using the Raptor system. I recently asked him about Pyrodex RS since I was having trouble finding Pyrodex P locally. Below is his response.


Hi Jeff,

This is VERY important! DO NOT USE PYRODEX OF ANY SORT! It does not share the burn characteristics of BP at the low pressure that the RAPTOR runs at!

Use the following in order of preference:

1) 4F BP (Also known as ffffG Black Powder) This is what is shipped with the rocket motors for motor deployment!
2) 3F BP (AKA fffG) Commonly used for BP pistols & revolvers
3) Triple 7 (Triple Seven) Must be 3F equivalent intended for revolvers! This works as well as 3F BP and is what I use!
4) 2F BP (AKA ffG) Must be ground finer, 1/2 teaspoon at a time, in a ceramic bowl!

No other pyro powder should be used!

To your question, Pyrodex P, while intended to be used in pistols, will not develop enough pressure to adequately puncture the CO2 ctg. While it will work, it will work POORLY! Pyrodex RS may not work at all or at very least will work very poorly!


Regards,

Cameron


I've been using 4F BP since I couldn't get Triple 7 locally in time for the launch. Looks like I need to switch though.

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Good information to know, thanks for passing that one along.

The info on my post was taken from the Raptor user manual, (found here) page 3,5 and 6, sections f, g and h "measure out .2cc with the provided measuring scoop your choice of 3or 4F Black Powder, Pyrodex or Triple Seven." The previous manual specified Pyrodex P as the version of Pyrodex you could use.

Regardless of which you use, the one caveat that most people are very aware of is ground test, ground test, ground test and repeat.

phyzzld said:

Yes, that is exactly the trouble spot I have as well. I will try the Magic Eraser. Thanks.

Not wanting to hijack my own thread, but thought I should share this since it was brought up. Cameron Tinder has been very helpful and responsive to my questions about using the Raptor system. I recently asked him about Pyrodex RS since I was having trouble finding Pyrodex P locally. Below is his response.


Hi Jeff,

This is VERY important! DO NOT USE PYRODEX OF ANY SORT! It does not share the burn characteristics of BP at the low pressure that the RAPTOR runs at!

Use the following in order of preference:

1) 4F BP (Also known as ffffG Black Powder) This is what is shipped with the rocket motors for motor deployment!
2) 3F BP (AKA fffG) Commonly used for BP pistols & revolvers
3) Triple 7 (Triple Seven) Must be 3F equivalent intended for revolvers! This works as well as 3F BP and is what I use!
4) 2F BP (AKA ffG) Must be ground finer, 1/2 teaspoon at a time, in a ceramic bowl!

No other pyro powder should be used!

To your question, Pyrodex P, while intended to be used in pistols, will not develop enough pressure to adequately puncture the CO2 ctg. While it will work, it will work POORLY! Pyrodex RS may not work at all or at very least will work very poorly!


Regards,

Cameron


I've been using 4F BP since I couldn't get Triple 7 locally in time for the launch. Looks like I need to switch though.

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Why switch? 4f BP is his #1. Are you just thinking of ease of cleaning?

Good question.

The manual wasn't, and isn't, as clear as the email the OP had with the manufacturer. 4f is what I have been using and it wasn't even listed, just 3f. So my reasons for switching were 1, to be more compliant with the manufacturers best practice and 2 ease of clean up.

Based on this thread I will do my own confirmation directory with the manufacturer instead of the user manual, and go from there.

mpitfield said:

Good question.

The manual wasn't, and isn't, as clear as the email the OP had with the manufacturer. 4f is what I have been using and it wasn't even listed, just 3f. So my reasons for switching were 1, to be more compliant with the manufacturers best practice and 2 ease of clean up.

Based on this thread I will do my own confirmation directory with the manufacturer instead of the user manual, and go from there.

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3f or 4f were listed together as the first item in the manual.

4f is always the easiest to light and quickest to burn.

Steve Shannon said:

3f or 4f were listed together as the first item in the manual.

4f is always the easiest to light and quickest to burn.

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Not to sound argumentative, but no 4f was not listed in the original manual attached below, only 3f was listed.

Steve Shannon said:

Why switch? 4f BP is his #1. Are you just thinking of ease of cleaning?

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Yes, easier cleaning, and from Cameron's email, triple 7 is what he uses. Figured it is worth taking a look at. Of course any change would include ground testing.

Michael, how has your switch to Triple 7 gone?

mpitfield said:

Not to sound argumentative, but no 4f was not listed in the original manual attached below, only 3f was listed.

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In another email, Cameron said he would be updating the manual. Never noticed that the Raptor and Peregrine manuals are different.

mpitfield said:

Not to sound argumentative, but no 4f was not listed in the original manual attached below, only 3f was listed.

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Sorry, I went by the manual linked in your post #14.

Steve Shannon said:

Sorry, I went by the manual linked in your post #14.

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That manual is the Peregrine CO2 system. The Raptor CO2 manual doesn't list 4f. I guess Cameron hasn't updated it yet.

phyzzld said:

That manual is the Peregrine CO2 system. The Raptor CO2 manual doesn't list 4f. I guess Cameron hasn't updated it yet.

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Ahh, thanks.

Steve Shannon said:

Sorry, I went by the manual linked in your post #14.
View attachment 384831

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Agreed, I noted that as well.

The new manual I linked to, as well as the email that the OP posted, are quite a bit different from the original user manual. It is a reminder that a good practice to adopt should be to verify the information before usage, as "best practise" changes as the manufacturer gets feedback.

mpitfield said:

Agreed, I noted that as well.

The new manual I linked to, as well as the email that the OP posted, are quite a bit different from the original user manual. It is a reminder that a good practice to adopt should be to verify the information before usage, as "best practise" changes as the manufacturer gets feedback.

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Yeah, I saw that you had noted it. I was just so confused [emoji2375]. Again, I’m sorry.

phyzzld said:

That manual is the Peregrine CO2 system. The Raptor CO2 manual doesn't list 4f. I guess Cameron hasn't updated it yet.

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I just noticed that the hyperlink for the Raptor user manual points to the same manual for the Peregrine.

mpitfield said:

Good information to know, thanks for passing that one along.

The info on my post was taken from the Raptor user manual, (found here) page 3,5 and 6, sections f, g and h "measure out .2cc with the provided measuring scoop your choice of 3or 4F Black Powder, Pyrodex or Triple Seven." The previous manual specified Pyrodex P as the version of Pyrodex you could use.

Regardless of which you use, the one caveat that most people are very aware of is ground test, ground test, ground test and repeat.

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The problem herein lies in those $15 each C02 cylinders..Repeated ground testing can eat your budget up real quick.

mpitfield said:

I just noticed that the hyperlink for the Raptor user manual points to the same manual for the Peregrine.

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I am not seeing that. Are you downloading them from:

https://www.tinderrocketry.com/peregrine-co2-ejection
https://www.tinderrocketry.com/raptor-co2-ejection

phyzzld said:

I am not seeing that. Are you downloading them from:

https://www.tinderrocketry.com/peregrine-co2-ejection
https://www.tinderrocketry.com/raptor-co2-ejection

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I was looking at https://www.tinderrocketry.com/rocketry-co2-ejection-system, specifically the links under each device. Both hyperlinks " Click HERE to download the PDF instruction manual" point to the same path.

https://media.wix.com/ugd//b73de9_5073f5498c5742f5e23ac0728a139904.pdf
https://media.wix.com/ugd//b73de9_5073f5498c5742f5e23ac0728a139904.pdf

I just looked at the specific pages you link or each device, and their links are unique. So this is likely just a case of poor web management, which I can relate to!

The Raptor link is: https://docs.wixstatic.com/ugd/b73de9_1cf9c63dfeaa4018908df6f9ba02c0ca.pdf
The Peregrine link is: https://docs.wixstatic.com/ugd/b73de9_c24d1b724ee493a5b1a62877c96cfa96.pdf

Wallace said:

The problem herein lies in those $15 each C02 cylinders..Repeated ground testing can eat your budget up real quick.

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I sourced mine directly from Leland Gas Technologies. I purchased 10 of the 20gr (84201z) and 10 of the 23gr (84203z) cylinders, for $6.22 and $4.16 each, respectively, plus shipping. Not only are they reasonably priced, but they have a greater selection. If looking at non-standard cylinders, just make sure that the cylinders are compatible.

At the end of the day, the cost is a fraction of what I have in each rocket so I wouldn't let that stop me from ground testing. I also have two of the Peregrine systems, and I experienced a failure, that I would attribute to poor testing and lack of experience on my behalf. Essentially the charge went off, and the puncture pin did it's thing; with enthusiasm. The pin was embedded in the CO2 cylinder, and luckily for me, it landed with no damage. When I approached the rocket 10 -15 min later I could hear the C02 cylinder hissing, basically a slow leak.