Budget for 60000' flight

shop deals on amazon
Onebadhawk
The Rocketry Forum

Help Support The Rocketry Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
dwightr,

A roughly 4" P motor is a challenge, but possible. My 4.25", 95% O motor didn't come apart [and flew fine], so it has 100% reliability so far...

What does a high altitude flight cost? I imagine it is a lot like boat ownership. One does it because one likes the idea of it, and then money flows in one steady direction at whatever rate one lets it :)

But seriously you can best answer your own question: start designing something that seems plausible and then start pricing it out. When that seems like too much money, start figuring out ways to be more efficient. Like Mark said, easier if you can organize a few people to contribute to the effort. For your project you might even be able to get a sponsor.

br/

Tony
 
Read this build thread, try to produce a 1/4 scale identical model that gets up and down safely. Launch it 10 times in a row with nothing unexpected happening. Then do a 1/2 scale, up and down 10 times, while picking up certifications for larger motors as you go. Then, do a full scale replication and hope for the best.

If you stay completely focused on your 60k goal and don't get distracted you'll probably be in about $7-8k and 3-4 years when you get there. If you're single or don't have a family you could probably cut that time frame in half.

https://www.rocketryforum.com/threads/workbench-2-0-two-stage-100k-build-thread-and-more.133002/
 
Do you have to must absolutely have 60k ft as a target altitude? I’m saying this because in my experience H to H or I L-1 multistaged minimum diameter projects get 10,000ft-15,000ft easily for $600-700 completed airframes 29mm-38mm and electronics on $60 of propellant, these are doable in a few weeks under a semester time table with some friends or by yourself from scratch. Yardstick sized supersonic darts really. Not the most impressive but still a heck of a lot more than an Estes rocket and out of visual sight. You will begin to realize finding launch sites is hard the higher you go. If you scale your project down the price decreases significantly. My L2 project only predicts 26,000ft as a single stage on an 54mm L motor and runs $800 completed on $285 of propellant. Expect to sink $500 or more into quality electronics to get the rocket back. If I were you I’d min diameter multistage this project to meet your altitude goals. You must understand that this is an expensive attempt and prone to failure. At university we had three out of five multistages work with playing on their budget of multiple thousands of dollars. It still took us a year to figure it out flawlessly and practically do it. Expect failure for second stage to ignite to be a given on first attempt. Expect one interstage connection failure in flight or other kind of structural issue while figuring it out unless your really on the ball listening to what others say do for interstage design especially if scratch build I’m talking if your clueless on your own vs flight tested to work from scratch. If I were you I’d get a mentor for this project. Get a L3 TAP guy or gal on the forum to help you out in person who has lots of experience with multistage min diameter rockets. They will save you countless dollars in mistakes you could make from what they have learned by doing. It’s not the money amount exactly but the learning from and hopefully learn all you can before failures occur. The quote multistage isn’t twice as hard it’s ten times more intense rings a bell. The personal experience of double the altitude five times the cost rings a bell. I’m talking there’s an experience gap here. You still likely have to budget certifications into this. You’ll want a team of people. If your not the personal flyer you could save a butt load of money if that doesn’t bug you deeply. Go seek a local hpr rocketry launch site. You might meet some L2-L3 rated friends willing to chip in time for your noble cause here. You could build the rocket. They could fly it and help you safely design it. You could complete it much cheaper and sooner. Approach VFW groups they may be able to help sponsor it provided you have a team of qualified amateur rocketeers. I’m not knocking you personally but you are one person trying a very complex task. What you need to do is start at L1 and gain some practical experience. Getting acquainted with people above your experience will make your project go smoothly. This is an advanced project.

If your not the sole flyer of the rocket that saves you from having to get all the certifications and build rockets to certify on. Use that several grand you would spend on several ever increasing larger certification models etc to build the project if this is all you seek. My opinion. Usually you can talk an RSO into flying your project if you can’t find anyone rated for it. Many people will remote volunteer time on the forum to help you seek your goals. Look at the R project where people chipped in effort already in a open source method approach.
 
0011001100 said:
Maybe read the thread? He explained why he wanted 60k feet and even gave a timeline/goal date that is reasonable. I thought you were past your ramblings but I guess not.
Click to expand...

Was I asking you? No.
 
Right now he’s set at 1ft of altitude per name. He could easily say half foot of altitude per name and reduce the rocket complexity or costs significantly if desired. Heck he could go 1” altitude per name and actually fly the rocket under most waivers within visual sight under a mile high. The rocket is symbolically flying the Vietnam war memorial I think organizations like the VFW will respect his efforts regardless of altitude performance. It’s going to be an engraver’s work of art to get that many names on a decent sized rocket. It’s a rocket of the Vietnam war memorial and that alone is cool. If it’s going to survive a 58,220ft environment don’t expect it to return flawlessly in prestine paint condition. It’s a helluva lot more obtainable on a budget to obtain 4852 ft (58220 inches) or 29,110 ft than obtain 58220ft. By justifying the 1ft altitude per name on the wall you financially and technically committed yourself to an advanced L3 project up front. After the first mile no one will see it visually.

My father served in Vietnam as an army aviator. There’s even a Birdman organization of Army airmen that might want to help fund this project. Some of dad’s friends had ashes spread from UH-1 helicopters during funeral events under request by family members through the Army air guard back in the nineties. Some family spectators of the fallen may want to observe the whole rocket flight for symbolic reasons. If it goes 58220ft and lands two to four miles from the pad then returns scuffed up from intense aero heating sponsors may be peeved slightly. Would they want to display it after the flight? And as crazy as it sounds some families may want ash payloads of recently deceased Vietnam veterans.... It’s late here and I vented to OP to think about mission parameters of rocket. Cramming 58220 names on a rocket will be an interesting project in itself and a larger non min diameter rocket may have a surface area engraving advantage here while lacking the 58220ft goal. I’m done here best of luck to OP...
 
Andrew_ASC said:
Right now he’s set at 1ft of altitude per name. He could easily say half foot of altitude per name and reduce the rocket complexity or costs significantly if desired. Heck he could go 1” altitude per name and actually fly the rocket under most waivers within visual sight under a mile high. The rocket is symbolically flying the Vietnam war memorial I think organizations like the VFW will respect his efforts regardless of altitude performance. It’s going to be an engraver’s work of art to get that many names on a decent sized rocket. It’s a rocket of the Vietnam war memorial and that alone is cool. If it’s going to survive a 58,220ft environment don’t expect it to return flawlessly in prestine paint condition. It’s a helluva lot more obtainable on a budget to obtain 4852 ft (58220 inches) or 29,110 ft than obtain 58220ft. By justifying the 1ft altitude per name on the wall you financially and technically committed yourself to an advanced L3 project up front. After the first mile no one will see it visually.

My father served in Vietnam as an army aviator. There’s even a Birdman organization of Army airmen that might want to help fund this project. Some of dad’s friends had ashes spread from UH-1 helicopters during funeral events under request by family members through the Army air guard back in the nineties. Some family spectators of the fallen may want to observe the whole rocket flight for symbolic reasons. If it goes 58220ft and lands two to four miles from the pad then returns scuffed up from intense aero heating sponsors may be peeved slightly. Would they want to display it after the flight? And as crazy as it sounds some families may want ash payloads of recently deceased Vietnam veterans.... It’s late here and I vented to OP to think about mission parameters of rocket. Cramming 58220 names on a rocket will be an interesting project in itself and a larger non min diameter rocket may have a surface area engraving advantage here while lacking the 58220ft goal. I’m done here best of luck to OP...
Click to expand...

Or use millimeters.
Or better microns!
 
This is a bit of making lemons out of lemonade, so bear with me. Is it really a bad thing that a wrap with the names of KIA/MIA in Vietnam comes back scarred/burnt/broken? I think you could make a case to donors that the symbolism of coming back that way is part of the point.

If the OP has a goal and it's achievable for the amount of money and time he's willing to spend, by all means go for it.
 
Thanks to everyone for all of the advise and encouragement. I was only 2 years old when Kennedy said "we do these things not because they are easy, but because they are hard", and it ring just as true today. If this rocket flies beautifully, hits the altitude perfectly, transmits data the entire time, and recovers 50' from the launch pad without a scratch and nobody pays any attention to the reason for the flight the project is a failure, but if the rocket CATOs on the pad but a whole new generation gains some insight into the sacrifice that was made by these men I've done what I set out to do. I'm going to start working on concurrent designs in OpenRocket for a single stage and a two stage design, once I have some basic designs worked out, I'll post them for comments. Then with your help we can start refining both designs and identifying the advantages of each as well as the failure modes. I'll continue to fly as often as possible, constantly moving to higher, faster and more complex rockets. In a year or two we can make a decision on whether to pursue single or two stage. Then we can start to build a team, propulsion, aerodynamics, electronics, structures, recovery and simulations, to refine the design and identify problems which will need to be overcome. Then we will move on to building and testing. I hope everyone notices that I keep using the term "we", I don't have the experience to do this alone but the best people in the sport are on this forum and I want them onboard. To encourage me when I'm going in the right direction and to chastise me when I get off track, but most of all to turn an idea into reality. I'll probably post the OpenRocket files under a new thread called "Gone but not forgotten" and that can turn into the design and build thread.
 
Strangely I find myself agreeing with Andrew ASC here, he is just getting Dwight to consider goals and numbers to achieve “X”

Maybe OP changes goals alittle bit.
Engraving the names of all those that paid the ultimate sacrifice is going to take a lot of time and space.
HUGE slow - smoky power full, maybe numerous White lightning long burns to 15 K is quite a show (insert multiple opinions here). Keeping a wrap on it maybe a goal as well as modifying the altitude per name - or per month war occurred or etc.

Unfortunately I have never been to the playa but someone mentioned be lucky to dry up by July and I’ve seen that same thing posted a few years ago. So if the date is important can rethink venue which will dictate your altitude


Noble cause for sure, will be watching
 

Similar threads

bandman444
Bryce's Handicap Record Quest: NSL 2024
2
Replies
59
Views
2K
MClark
M
Adrian A
Two ideas for paid projects
Replies
6
Views
564
Ben Murdock
Ben Murdock
bandman444
NSL 2024: A 24" Diameter 1/6th SpaceX Dragon Pad Abort Test
2
Replies
37
Views
2K
Daddyisabar
Daddyisabar
Voyhager3
Removeable fins on BIG rockets
2
Replies
33
Views
1K
Voyhager3
Voyhager3
C
Where to put camera and how to get a shot of the ground at apogee
Replies
4
Views
294
Maxhiker14
Maxhiker14

Latest posts

Back
Top