ANOTHER CATO...

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Interesting. I've had more than one CATO on Aerotech hobbyline hardware (G64s and a G76) due to forward closure failures. The only CTI CATO I've had was with a K300. I've always found CTI more reliable, at least in my personal experience.
 
plugger said:
Interesting. I've had more than one CATO on Aerotech hobbyline hardware (G64s and a G76) due to forward closure failures. The only CTI CATO I've had was with a K300. I've always found CTI more reliable, at least in my personal experience.
Click to expand...

Similar experience, I have never had a CTI motor CATO. I have had multiple AT motors from the same package CATO. At the same launch another flyer was having the same CATOs of the exact same motor.
 
A G78BS 38x1 took out my Ute Tomahawk today.

Lot Aug 13 2018

IMG_0933.jpg
IMG_0934.jpg
IMG_0936.jpg

Yes, I’ll report once I’m back to better bandwidth and have grieved a bit more.
 
G78BS 38x1 overpressured on my PML Tethys yesterday. Blew the quick switch out the bottom. Ripped off the motor retention. I used a two grain case with a spacer and it pushed the delay charge through the casing and the spacer. The piston was ripped apart. The manufacture date on the motor was Sept 2017. I just bought it. Managed to ruin my Level 2 rocket, my new to me casing and my spacer. We think the rocket can be rebuilt. Our night rocket also suffered the exact same problem. The motor was a 29mm G33 Mellow manufactured March 2018. In that instance, we distroyed the whole rocket, nightflight setup, casing and spacer. Both rockets never left the pads. What is going on with CTI? We’ve have been flying CTI for more than 12 years and never had failures like this. We only launched three rockets and two failed in the same manner.

Heather in San Diego
 
Heather said:
G78BS 38x1 overpressured on my PML Tethys yesterday. Blew the quick switch out the bottom. Ripped off the motor retention. I used a two grain case with a spacer and it pushed the delay charge through the casing and the spacer. The piston was ripped apart. The manufacture date on the motor was Sept 2017. I just bought it. Managed to ruin my Level 2 rocket, my new to me casing and my spacer. We think the rocket can be rebuilt. Our night rocket also suffered the exact same problem. The motor was a 29mm G33 Mellow manufactured March 2018. In that instance, we distroyed the whole rocket, nightflight setup, casing and spacer. Both rockets never left the pads. What is going on with CTI? We’ve have been flying CTI for more than 12 years and never had failures like this. We only launched three rockets and two failed in the same manner.

Heather in San Diego
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Heather,

Sorry to hear about the incident with your TETHYS ( my favorite PML rocket, especially when converted to dual deployment with an added 19" Payload Section ) . . . Best wishes for a successful repair and getting your L2 Certification !

Dave F.
 
Steve Shannon said:
Please turn in MESS reports and submit a warranty claim to this link that CTI provided:

https://www.pro38.com/pdfs/ProX_Warranty_Form_V1.0.pdf
Click to expand...

Ok.
MESS report filed.
Warranty form filled out and sent to the vendor
Now for a complication - I can't find an email to report this to @CTI . The form, yes - but that goes the the -vendor-. SO, I tried the 'contact us' webform, giving some details and noting that I was submitting via the vendor.

If CTI isn't getting reports, could it be because their reporting process is broken?
 
Charles_McG said:
Ok.
MESS report filed.
Warranty form filled out and sent to the vendor
Now for a complication - I can't find an email to report this to @CTI . The form, yes - but that goes the the -vendor-. SO, I tried the 'contact us' webform, giving some details and noting that I was submitting via the vendor.

If CTI isn't getting reports, could it be because their reporting process is broken?
Click to expand...

I don’t know, but I won’t discount the suggestion completely. The vendors do notify the manufacturer; but for this spate of G78 motors I’ve been notifying several CTI people as well. That’s possibly me micromanaging (or taking a personal interest).
 
Ez2cDave said:
Heather,

Sorry to hear about the incident with your TETHYS ( my favorite PML rocket, especially when converted to dual deployment with an added 19" Payload Section ) . . . Best wishes for a successful repair and getting your L2 Certification !

Dave F.
Click to expand...


Thanks Dave,

Been a Tripoli Level 2 for more than 10 years. Sorry I was not clear. I am really disappointed that a G motor took out my Level 1-2 qualifying rocket. This was to be a LIMBO (how low can I go) flight. Was a test flight at Tripoli San Diego. Wanted to launch it at Fiesta Island (20 min drive from house) which is a NAR low powered event limited to G motors and 1,000 feet. I can keep the Tethys under 1000 on an H, but gotta use a G. I usually fly it with the payload bay (like the look, use for altimeter and tracker) and this was the only time without. Was trying to lighten it up. I guess the up side is that I have an undamaged payload bay. :)

We love the Tethys and have two in family. We also have an IO and dual deploy 4” AMRAAM. :)

Heather in San Diego, CA
 
Steve Shannon said:
I don’t know, but I won’t discount the suggestion completely. The vendors do notify the manufacturer; but for this spate of G78 motors I’ve been notifying several CTI people as well. That’s possibly me micromanaging (or taking a personal interest).
Click to expand...

Anecdotally, it seems like vendors aren't getting much (if any) response from CTI on warranty issues. If I believe both (CTI and my vendor), then it suggests a broken step in the workflow.
 
Steve Shannon said:
but for this spate of G78 motors I’ve been notifying several CTI people as well. That’s possibly me micromanaging (or taking a personal interest).
Click to expand...

I appreciate you doing this Steve. What's really strange about it for me is that this only seems to be the G78, but not other 1 grain 38mm motors. This would suggest a propellant problem, not a liner/nozzle/etc problem?
 
djs said:
I appreciate you doing this Steve. What's really strange about it for me is that this only seems to be the G78, but not other 1 grain 38mm motors. This would suggest a propellant problem, not a liner/nozzle/etc problem?
Click to expand...

I don’t know if the G78 uses a different nozzle than other one grain Pro38 motors. There’s definitely a relationship between the propellant and the nozzle. These are all failures which have failed as designed in accordance with NFPA 1125. For some reason they appear to have had too much pressure. That can be caused by either the nozzle or the propellant formulation or the propellant geometry (maybe other things as well; I’m certainly no expert).
 
Charles_McG said:
Ok.
MESS report filed.
Warranty form filled out and sent to the vendor
Now for a complication - I can't find an email to report this to @CTI . The form, yes - but that goes the the -vendor-. SO, I tried the 'contact us' webform, giving some details and noting that I was submitting via the vendor.

If CTI isn't getting reports, could it be because their reporting process is broken?
Click to expand...


https://pro38.com/contact.php

Tel: +1 905-887-2370
Fax: +1 905-887-2375

Email: [email protected]

https://www.motorcato.org
 
In the YouTube video you can see the moment when the sustainer body tube breaks a spiral on impact. Awesome video. Heartbreaking to the flier.
 
djs said:
I appreciate you doing this Steve. What's really strange about it for me is that this only seems to be the G78, but not other 1 grain 38mm motors. This would suggest a propellant problem, not a liner/nozzle/etc problem?
Click to expand...
It could just be that they accidentally put the wrong throat diameter nozzle on a batch of G78s.
 
Maxwelljets said:
It could just be that they accidentally put the wrong throat diameter nozzle on a batch of G78s.
Click to expand...
There's more than one batch. The date code on mine is different than the OP. That's why I went ahead with the flight.

The nozzle diameter was really small - as in more than one try to get the ematch through. Same diameter as the 24mm E22SS that was in the sustainer for this flight.
 
I filled out the MESS form and sent the warranty form to my vendor (Wildman). Will update this thread with any info.

FWIW- the date code on mine was Sept 27, 2017.
 
I just noticed that the CTI warranty is 1 year from manufacture. (It’s on the contact page.) AT is 5 years. Didn’t know that before.
 
Charles_McG said:
I just noticed that the CTI warranty is 1 year from manufacture. (It’s on the contact page.) AT is 5 years. Didn’t know that before.
Click to expand...
1 year after manufacture and we as end customers have no control over how long it sits in the distribution network. Its entirely possible that we buy a motor that is already out of warranty before it gets to us. Doesn't seem very customer friendly.
 
To be fair, I probably had that motor sitting around for a good 8-9 months before flying it. Doubtful that made a difference in it CATOing or not.
 
djs said:
To be fair, I probably had that motor sitting around for a good 8-9 months before flying it. Doubtful that made a difference in it CATOing or not.
Click to expand...

It should not have made a difference. NFPA 1125 has a shelf life requirement that greatly exceeds the 8-9 months that you had the motor.
 
@SCEtoAux "I’m disappointed with [Cesaroni's] warranty service. I put in a warranty request with Aerotech this Monday and I’ve alreay heard back from them."

Ditto. I had a CATO with an Aerotech motor, got an answer from Karl Baumann within a day and got a replacement in a week. With Cesaroni, very poor communication and it took like 6 months to get the replacement (they said they were still behind due to the fire). It's a shame, because Cesaroni motors are so much easier to assemble and they usually fly great, but since this incident I've been buying mostly Aerotech.
 

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