First build in many years!

wij · Mar 31, 2019

How's it going every one! My name is Wyatt i'm based out of phoenix. Back in the hobby, eager to get some rockets ripping though the skies!!! Used to fly mid power stuff when I was growing up and now I definitely want to get into some more fun stuff. I figured after browsing the forum for a while that I should post this build and maybe receive some tips/tricks or guidance. I intend to fly it on mid power motors for a little to get the hang of it all again (29mm 4-120 reloads) and go for my L1 and then start flying it on some light high power 29mm after I feel comfortable with the mid-power flights. I know theres some good clubs out here in PHX to get with regarding that but for now heres the build!

Its a 2.2 inch body tube and 36 inches tall when it is all together. I designed this rocket with a 29mm motor mount and a payload bay for an altimeter if I ever want to see my flight data.
It is a 3 fin configuration as well. Aeropack 29mm motor retainer is on the back. I have attached the bulkhead for the payload bay and have assembled the motor mount. Im waiting for my shock cord material to arrive tomorrow so i can attach it to the eye bolt on the forward centering ring then install the motor mount. The next step i'm doing is the fin fillets. I was going to use a thickened epoxy with milled fiberglass mixed into the epoxy fillets. I have attached pics of where i'm at with the build so far! Right now with everything in the rocket (motor mount, parachute, motor case, fins, nosecone, payload bay, and motor retainer) it weighs 18.3 ounces.

grouch · Mar 31, 2019

Clean looking design. I like that you are putting a 29mm mount in it over larger options. Can't wait to see it finished.

wij · Mar 31, 2019

grouch said:
Clean looking design. I like that you are putting a 29mm mount in it over larger options. Can't wait to see it finished.

Thanks I appreciate that! I figured if I can build it to withstand some good H or maybe I motors when I achieve L1, it will be a blast. I'll post more pics as I progress.

wij · Apr 1, 2019

Fillets are done and the fins are secured nicely! Used a slightly thickened epoxy with milled fiberglass mixed in. Got the whole thing primed last night using a krylon primer, 2 coats then a sanding with 320 grit followed by 1000 grit. Recovery system is next!

samb · Apr 1, 2019

Nice clean build. That thing looks FAST ! I like your photographs as well. I don't know art but I know what I like. "Still life with cat" is my favorite. My suggestion for future builds like this is to consider rail buttons instead of the launch lug. High performers and heavier models benefit from the stiffer guidance. Since you'll be flying with a club you can leverage their investment in ground support equipment.

Nytrunner · Apr 1, 2019

Slick!

How high/fast are you predicting it to go?

wij · Apr 1, 2019

samb said:
Nice clean build. That thing looks FAST ! I like your photographs as well. I don't know art but I know what I like. "Still life with cat" is my favorite. My suggestion for future builds like this is to consider rail buttons instead of the launch lug. High performers and heavier models benefit from the stiffer guidance. Since you'll be flying with a club you can leverage their investment in ground support equipment.

View attachment 378960

I absolutely agree with you! Next build is getting buttons. May even add some to this one after a while! Thank you for the tips!

wij · Apr 1, 2019

Nytrunner said:
Slick!

How high/fast are you predicting it to go?

Not too sure yet. I ran some simulations in rocksim and on a G64 it was saying around 2800-3k altitude. I plan on getting an altimeter three to mount in the payload bay and seeing what the real numbers are. I plugged in an H180 on the sim and it was showing right around mach speeds. Looking forward to experimenting with this one!

wij · Apr 1, 2019

When measuring CG of a rocket, is it with the motor installed? just the casing? or nothing at all?

r66astro · Apr 1, 2019

ready to launch. everything

r66astro · Apr 1, 2019

plus you need to know where the CP is located

Nytrunner · Apr 1, 2019

wij said:
Not too sure yet. I ran some simulations in rocksim and on a G64 it was saying around 2800-3k altitude. I plan on getting an altimeter three to mount in the payload bay and seeing what the real numbers are. I plugged in an H180 on the sim and it was showing right around mach speeds. Looking forward to experimenting with this one!

Nice! It's a scooter for sure. Plywood fins? They have a good shape for going fast.
May want to look into some sort of tracking also. It's going to be hard to see such a small rocket so far up.

wij said:
When measuring CG of a rocket, is it with the motor installed? just the casing? or nothing at all?

The important CG is at launch with motor installed. This will be different for every motor (similar size motors will be around the same, but different cases, or spacers, or other stuff will affect it)

When simulating, make sure your as-built empty weight (including recovery stuff) matches the No-motor configuration as close as possible.
That way you can see the CG shift for each motor.

What I like to do is design for adjustable noseweight, so I can fly lighter or heavier motors depending on the field and wind.
If using reload adapters/spacers, that will change things also. I keep a mass object that's 0 for normal motors, or adjusted for spacers.

wij · Apr 1, 2019

Nytrunner said:
Nice! It's a scooter for sure. Plywood fins? They have a good shape for going fast.
May want to look into some sort of tracking also. It's going to be hard to see such a small rocket so far up.

The important CG is at launch with motor installed. This will be different for every motor (similar size motors will be around the same, but different cases, or spacers, or other stuff will affect it)

When simulating, make sure your as-built empty weight (including recovery stuff) matches the No-motor configuration as close as possible.
That way you can see the CG shift for each motor.

What I like to do is design for adjustable noseweight, so I can fly lighter or heavier motors depending on the field and wind.
If using reload adapters/spacers, that will change things also. I keep a mass object that's 0 for normal motors, or adjusted for spacers.

Yeah it has 1/8 ply fins! I always wondered if those little gps tracker key chain things would work as a tracker in a rocket? What is the go to for tracking with a model like this?

As far as simulation goes, I was playing around last night seeing what motors did what to the cg! I was measuring the cg with it fully loaded, just needed to make sure. thank you!!

What is your method for adjustable nose weight? That seems like a great thing to be able to mess with when needed!

Nytrunner · Apr 1, 2019

Beware little trackers that require cell coverage or sim cards or near proximity of other tracking chips to function. Make sure to read the constraints and requirements for a product.

You've got plenty of room in your 2.2" frame, so you have lots of options. If you solder or know someone that does, google eggtimer rocketry and check out the eggfinder (you'll need the transmitter for the rocket, and receiver for ground) that's probably the least expensive option because its kit instead of an all up device. I'm really partial to the Missileworks T3. It's $150 for the transmitter and receiver combo, and talks to an android device via bluetooth (rocket locator app).

There's also radio beacons which is a whole other kettle of fish that I haven't dipped into. Talk to good club folks about tracking and their experiences, I'm sure they'll be more than happy to show you devices or solutions or even let you borrow stuff. My recommendation is test fly on lower power motors and chat with folks before chucking it really high up there

Noseweight, lots of options there.
-Simplest for you is probably making a weight canister or object that goes in your payload bay. Open it up, add/remove mass as necessary.
-What I like to do is chop the bottom face of the nosecone off, install a ring with threaded inserts just past the shoulder lip inside, and put a bulkhead with an eyebolt there (if harness attaches at that point). That gives you access to the cone volume and you can either put a tube in to hold weights (filling empty void with foam or something, or use a coupler nut and threaded rod to thread on washers or weights of sorts. (for some rockets, just putting my tracker in the nose gives it the extra forward cg shift needed)

Whatever you do, have fun and take pictures!

wij · Apr 1, 2019

Nytrunner said:
Beware little trackers that require cell coverage or sim cards or near proximity of other tracking chips to function. Make sure to read the constraints and requirements for a product.

You've got plenty of room in your 2.2" frame, so you have lots of options. If you solder or know someone that does, google eggtimer rocketry and check out the eggfinder (you'll need the transmitter for the rocket, and receiver for ground) that's probably the least expensive option because its kit instead of an all up device. I'm really partial to the Missileworks T3. It's $150 for the transmitter and receiver combo, and talks to an android device via bluetooth (rocket locator app).

There's also radio beacons which is a whole other kettle of fish that I haven't dipped into. Talk to good club folks about tracking and their experiences, I'm sure they'll be more than happy to show you devices or solutions or even let you borrow stuff. My recommendation is test fly on lower power motors and chat with folks before chucking it really high up there

Noseweight, lots of options there.
-Simplest for you is probably making a weight canister or object that goes in your payload bay. Open it up, add/remove mass as necessary.
-What I like to do is chop the bottom face of the nosecone off, install a ring with threaded inserts just past the shoulder lip inside, and put a bulkhead with an eyebolt there (if harness attaches at that point). That gives you access to the cone volume and you can either put a tube in to hold weights (filling empty void with foam or something, or use a coupler nut and threaded rod to thread on washers or weights of sorts. (for some rockets, just putting my tracker in the nose gives it the extra forward cg shift needed)

Whatever you do, have fun and take pictures!

Im all good with soldering so I will definitely be looking into the eggfinder! Ah I think I will see what the weight of the electronics will add and if thats not enough I will design something along the lines of what you mentioned! Appreciate all the info! This clears things up a bit. Will do on the pictures!!

wij · Apr 2, 2019

Got the rocket about finished this morning! Recovery system is all set and motor mount is secured. Using about 8 feet of kevlar for the shock cord. 18" chute for recovery. This build has sparked up my interest in rocketry substantially and im looking forward to a level 1 cert in the future! Planning to go out tomorrow morning and see how it performs on an f40. Side note: the paint scheme for this rocket was taken from a painting in progress

mjstech · Apr 3, 2019

Nice build.
I sent you a PM regarding local launches with groups, there is one our larger one this weekend

wij · Apr 3, 2019

First flight was great. boosted up to about 1000-1200 ft im guessing. Now time to have some fun with it! So rewarding building your own rocket and having a successful first launch.

Nytrunner · Apr 3, 2019

Nice!

Thrustcurve says you're looking at near 3k' on the babiest of H's! That's double my L1 flight (ignoring I flew a couple G's higher before that)

wij · Apr 3, 2019

yep, need to get a gps in this one ASAP! I will be ordering the egg finder kit for it in the next few days! Would be a good excuse to build another (slower) rocket for ease of level 1. This thing is fast!!! My long term goal with this design was try to get something close to Mach speeds. Curious to see how fast this design can go...

grouch · Apr 3, 2019

Wyatt, if you are up to it I'll help you fly that on an I later this summer. I have a really great RDF tracker that can ride in the nose.

The Mrs and I are relocating to the Phoenix area late summer. I'm looking forward to desert flying!

wij · Apr 3, 2019

grouch said:
Wyatt, if you are up to it I'll help you fly that on an I later this summer. I have a really great RDF tracker that can ride in the nose.

The Mrs and I are relocating to the Phoenix area late summer. I'm looking forward to desert flying!

Now that sounds like something I’m up for!! I’ll definitely be around, looking forward to it

First build in many years!

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