C6-5 alternatives

Does anyone know of any motors you could use instead of a c6-5 in a regular rocket for better performance? Composites perhaps?

Depends on the rocket, Estes makes a C6-7 the longer delay will give you a higher altitude in the right rocket. There are quests new motors they’re available in c12-6 and other impulses. And lastly there is aerotechs 18mm composite motors.

Yup - Amsterdam has it. My default answer would be a Quest Q-Jet C12-6. They are good for at least 15% more altitude in the same model (based on a number of altimeter-equipped flights I've done).

Then there are the Aerotech D10 and D21 single use motors and their 18/20 reload equivalents, D13 and D24.

All of these are composites - the Q-Jets use "Fast Jack" - a black smoky propellant. The D10 and D13 are "White Lightning" and the D21 and D24 are "Blue Thunder".

I agree with Bernard.

The Quest C12-6 is a more than adequate replacement for the Estes C6-5 based on my experience flying these motors.

Thanks, do they fit in an Estes engine mount?

Yes, they are 18mm motors. If you already have a thrust ring and engine hook installed, it may take some finagling to get the forward end of the motor installed past the forward part of the hook, but it will fit.

Yes they do, as SecondRow notes. The Q-Jet Cs and Ds were released only after Aerotech tweaked the case size slightly, so the issues you may have heard about them not fitting in an Estes motor mount do not apply to the Cs and Ds, or As and Bs made after September of last year or so. It is true that if there is a motor hook in the mount you may have to keep turning the motor in the mount in small amounts and trying until you align the flat side of the ejection charge container portion of the motor with the top of the hook which allows it to go on in.

I just tried the new Quest C12-6 to maiden my new Semroc Arcas and it was amazing! It went a bit higher than I expected, and a TON of black smoke for a motor that size. If I had used the D 16-6, which is also an 18mm motor, im sure I would have lost my rocket!!

For many low power rockets, C means "C-ya later"

Now with the Q-jets we can add D for "Don't think I shoulda done that...."

Or E, for "Eeeeeeeeeeeeeeekkk!!!"

Bill Gibson said:

I just tried the new Quest C12-6 to maiden my new Semroc Arcas and it was amazing! It went a bit higher than I expected, and a TON of black smoke for a motor that size. If I had used the D 16-6, which is also an 18mm motor, im sure I would have lost my rocket!!

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It’s not quite that dramatic as the Q-Jet Ds are “baby Ds” at just under 13 N-s. So they are a step up from a C, but nothing like the almost full Ds of the Aerotech D10/D13/D21/D24 SU/RMS motors.

But it is very interesting to watch that progressive thrust curve in action.

BEC said:

It’s not quite that dramatic as the Q-Jet Ds are “baby Ds” at just under 13 N-s. So they are a step up from a C, but nothing like the almost full Ds of the Aerotech D10/D13/D21/D24 SU/RMS motors.

But it is very interesting to watch that progressive thrust curve in action.

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At our last club launch, someone flew a rocket he had made from a plastic part of a spinning firework. It looked sort of like an upside down cup with angled slats in the side. He had previously flown it several times on C6 motors. It made a whirring sound as it flew and reached an altitude of maybe 300 feet.

This time, he put one of the Q-Jet D16s in it. The flight started out well. The black smoke looked great. Then pieces started flying off as the rocket accelerated. Eventually, the whole thing disassembled in the air and plastic parts floated down. But, the motor mount, and the motor, kept flying straight up!

Bill Gibson said:

I just tried the new Quest C12-6 to maiden my new Semroc Arcas and it was amazing! It went a bit higher than I expected, and a TON of black smoke for a motor that size. If I had used the D 16-6, which is also an 18mm motor, im sure I would have lost my rocket!!

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Bill, I used the Arcas as my level 1. Didn't know I was going to try for Level 1 but apparently Carl had it all planned and I built it on the field during a NARAM. I lost track of it but luckily there were several gentlemen that kept track of it and returned it, undamaged.

not to hi-jack the thread, but does anyone here remember the old Aerotech E25? It was a baby E motor that was in the same case as the D21. They made them till 1999 or so. They were fun and talk about a lot of thrust for a small rocket.

Sure hope they apply for approval to use in Canada. These are produced as Quest by Aerotech correct?

Theory said:

not to hi-jack the thread, but does anyone here remember the old Aerotech E25? It was a baby E motor that was in the same case as the D21. They made them till 1999 or so. They were fun and talk about a lot of thrust for a small rocket.

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Yes, and I still have a couple!

Aerotech purchased Quest in 2013 so they are now under the same corporate umbrella.

Sheryl@semroc said:

Bill, I used the Arcas as my level 1. Didn't know I was going to try for Level 1 but apparently Carl had it all planned and I built it on the field during a NARAM. I lost track of it but luckily there were several gentlemen that kept track of it and returned it, undamaged.

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I’m glad you got it back Sheryl!
I hope all is good with you, and you’re still the best!!

Still have one of these old gems, AeroTech F55-11 50 nt-sec.
Supersonic verified to Mach 1.6...

beeblebrox said:

Still have one of these old gems, AeroTech F55-11

View attachment 375880

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HECK YEA!!!!!! Talk about rare. Those were hard to find when they were actually being made

Bill Gibson said:

I’m glad you got it back Sheryl!
I hope all is good with you, and you’re still the best!!

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Thank you Bill. It is not known but any memorabilia from Semroc that was in the basement where we had most everything is now gone. Had a basement fire and all was destroyed before Thanksgiving. God was watching over me as I had just pulled the generator 1/2 full of gas in the back door in the basement. If you saw the damage, you wouldn't know how in the world the house didn't blow up. Did manage to keep the engine machine that was the last thing Carl and Bruce worked on before Carl's passing. Extensive smoke damage upstairs, house is now gutted to be rebuilt. I was able to get my 2 dogs and myself out before smoke took over. Insurance is paying for an apartment for the time being.

Jacob said:

Does anyone know of any motors you could use instead of a c6-5 in a regular rocket for better performance? Composites perhaps?

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The attached motor list should be helpful . . . Look for 18mm diameter motors.

As a quick short list, try the new Quest motors A thru D, or AeroTech D10, D13 motors.

beeblebrox said:

As a quick short list, try the new Quest motors A thru D, or AeroTech D10, D13 motors.

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Do you know of a good way to get these in Canada? Apogee doesn’t ship to Canada.

Jacob said:

Do you know of a good way to get these in Canada? Apogee doesn’t ship to Canada.

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They have to be submitted for approval by ERD Canada. The manufacturers have to pay for that approval process...so when they decide to we'll get them.

I checked a couple weeks ago and they were not on the approved list.

Nytrunner said:

For many low power rockets, C means "C-ya later"

Now with the Q-jets we can add D for "Don't think I shoulda done that...."

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I've fired off a lot of Mosquito type rockets on a C6. These are motor tubes with fins and a nose cone. Tumble recovery.

3, 2, 1... and instantly there is a column of smoke that extends out of sight. It's almost too fast to even watch it extend up, just a blink and the column appears. Getting these back is a miracle. So much fun!!

Sheryl@semroc said:

Had a basement fire and all was destroyed before Thanksgiving...

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Dang, bummer! I'm glad you and the dogs are OK.

F55-11. I miss those. I really would love to see more single use 18mm and 24 mm motors by AT and Quest.

And I wish the Klima motors would appear here. It's a damn shame that never happened. I've read some about the reasons, and it seems like they could maybe licence a US or Canadian company to manufacture them here. That would solve the factory capacity, importation, and transportation problems in one fell swoop. The only drawback would be the licence fee eating into the local company's margin, but surely something could be worked out. That seems to me like the Trask Industries buying into radio solution.

cwbullet said:

F55-11. I miss those. I really would love to see more single use 18mm and 24 mm motors by AT and Quest.

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Many times AeroTech would produce 'unusual' 18mm and 24mm diameter over the past thirty years.
People would talk about them and how cool they were but seldom purchase the motors. If folks will not buy these motors they will not stay in production.