Liner stuck, I mean really stuck!

Got a Loki case and a burnt liner that I can't get out. I have, of course, tried to knock it out with PVC. It really won't budge. It is fused to the liner.

Can something be poured in there to sort of dissolve it?

Bat-mite said:

Got a Loki case and a burnt liner that I can't get out. I have, of course, tried to knock it out with PVC. It really won't budge. It is fused to the liner.

Can something be poured in there to sort of dissolve it?

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Put the forward BH back on I it. Fill the case with boiling water. Let sit . Repeat . After about 20 / 30 minutes of soaking it will pop out .

The ARR style liners chip out and can be split easily enough.

If a tougher liner, be sure to try in both directions in case one side is slightly easier due to tolorances.

Remove the o-rings from the forward closure and use that to shove the liner out. Another option is to cut a PVC pipe at a sharp angle and use that to wedge between the casing and the liner. You can pound that in there to basically cut the liner.

nope..don't do anything with pvc.

Go to Home Depot or Lowes....get a piece of aluminum channel.
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Everbil...-Thick-Aluminum-Trim-Channel-800167/204604759
the selection criteria should be the cheaper the better, as the aluminum is softer with the cheaper channel.

cut about a inch of the 2 walls off. sharpen both walls with the angles toward the inside (long end the outside)
sharpen the tongue.

put the tongue between the liner and the case. Pound on the other end. The channel will travel down the case, cutting a slot out of the liner. Most of the time that's enough. If not, slot again 180 degrees away.

so, now everyone knows my secret, as taught to me by Ed R. One tru-core to another to you.

Whhhhhaaaaattttt???

Oh man I'd be scared of damaging the case. Thats why I use PVC. What you're saying makes sense though.

Don't do any of that. Reverse forward bulkhead, attach all thread at least twice as long as case. Get a second case, can be shorter, butt it against the other case with all thread at least 4 inches past end when both cases are butted together. Get a piece of wood or metal barstock drilled to fit all thread. Use nut and fender washers on all thread to the block and just crank down on the nut. Draw the liner into the second case. You can probably remove the liner after it starts moving. Trust me, this is the easiest liner removal tool known to man!

Put it in a bag and throw it in the freezer. Let it sit for an hour or so. The difference in thermal expansion properties will cause the case and liner to expand at different rates and may break the bond. Easier than boiling in my opinion, but you may want to try that if freezing it doesn't work.

I'll add my 2 cents, try the boiling water first if that don't work try vinegar, let soak an hour or two, then try to remove with your PVC. If that don't work try other drastic measures posted. I have the AMW 640 casing, and the Skidmark loads for it did not have a liner. All they had was a grain casting tube and after use the inside of the casing was a total mess. Flown many of those Skids because I liked them, after soaking in vinegar for awhile clean up was not so bad.

Not sure acidic vinegar is a good mix with the aluminum.

Here's what has never failed me, especially with bigger 3 and 4" cases. Get several long wooden dowels (1/2" or larger, I've used old broom handles for larger cases). Cut the end at a sharp angle. Wedge it between the liner and case, and use a mallet to pound the dowel between the liner and case. The dowel may break a couple of times, hence the need for spares. No matter how badly fused the liner was, this has always worked and has never damaged a case.

Good luck, let us know what worked.


Tony

Did you apply grease to that liner before you inserted it into the casing?

jimzcatz said:

Don't do any of that. Reverse forward bulkhead, attach all thread at least twice as long as case. Get a second case, can be shorter, butt it against the other case with all thread at least 4 inches past end when both cases are butted together. Get a piece of wood or metal barstock drilled to fit all thread. Use nut and fender washers on all thread to the block and just crank down on the nut. Draw the liner into the second case. You can probably remove the liner after it starts moving. Trust me, this is the easiest liner removal tool known to man!

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Using the method I described with the dowel will split the liner as you drive the dowel down the length of the case. Generally you can then grip the liner with pliers and twist it out. But sometimes parts of the liner will still be stuck, and they always seem to be in the middle of the case. I've used Jim's method to clear those out - but you don't need a second case since you are dealing with just small sections of liner. I just use a 2x4 section with a hole in it to allow the all-thread to pass through it. Since I have a Grainger right near my house I was able to order 6' threaded rod without paying a fortune in shipping. Or you can use a threaded coupler to join two shorter sections.


Tony

nope, if you use the cheap stuff it will be a much softer aluminum then the case. It won't scratch it. It won't fail like PVC, either and takes significantly less effort because you are cutting vice driving...

I also have a custom liner removal tool, sorta looks like a spacer with a bulkhead on it that's threaded. Another part fits over the end of the motor tube and lets u pull 6 inches at a time. Then you gotta remove the 6 inches of liner and reset....

but you make the call. Special tools for each size or one tool for all sizes. When it's bunged up you just lop a little off and redo...when it's too small to use it's still only a couple of bucks. And it's small enough it sits inside my truck all the time.

but we're talking about REALLY stuck liners, not ones you can pull the bulkhead take the oring out flip over and drive thru with a dowel rod.

Nathan said:

Did you apply grease to that liner before you inserted it into the casing?

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+1 on the greased liner

I have successfully used both the angle iron and dowel methods without damage. However mine was not "I mean really stuck" it was just just a little stuck as the greased liner helps.

Good luck. It looks like you have a lot of advice, I mean really a lot of advice. Albeit in true TRF form mostly oppsing advice.

The old gunsmith trick is to soak for 24 hours or so in kerosene (fuel oil, diesel fuel, JP-5 or whatever it is now, all the same). That has broken down some ugly bonds. If freezing or boiling won't do it, try this. Won't mar your case anyway.

Jim

mpitfield said:

Albeit in true TRF form mostly oppsing advice.

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+1

This made me laugh 'cause it's sooooo true.

DAllen said:

+1

This made me laugh 'cause it's sooooo true.

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No it didn't!

That's not laughing, it's the forced expression of air from the nostrils in an audible manner!

I reject your claim to True Lollerskates!

dhbarr said:

No it didn't!

That's not laughing, it's the forced expression of air from the nostrils in an audible manner!

I reject your claim to True Lollerskates!

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Thanks, all. Scott from Loki recommended using a propane torch to heat it to launch temperature, then use the bulkhead to knock it out. I don't have a torch, so I have asked Scott if heating it in the oven wouldn't do the same thing. Waiting to hear back. May end up buying a torch ($18 at Home Depot vs. $45 for new casing).

This was the only time in my HPR career that I made these two mistakes at the same time: forgot to grease the liner, and didn't eject the liner while it was still warm from the launch.

I will let you know how it goes.

Oh, BTW, I don't think freezing would help because the liner is really heat-fused to the metal. Like glued.

It's glued because you used grease. I have never been able to figure out the grease or don't grease issue. It seems no matter what I do, liners get stuck.

jimzcatz said:

It's glued because you used grease. I have never been able to figure out the grease or don't grease issue. It seems no matter what I do, liners get stuck.

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I said I forgot to grease the liner. Normally I do, and it comes right out. Better if it is warm, right after flight.

Just a note- sometimes when I have this problem, I walk away from it and come back the next day. If I have frustrating liners, it's easy for me to get irate at them and potentially do something to the case that I'll regret later.

One thing I have done is freeze the case, and then after it's been in the fridge for a while, pull it out and stick it under hot water almost immediately. The case will expand quickly, and hopefully give you some play on the liner.

Note- if you have a cardboard liner in there, water will make it gunk up and be worse, but sometimes it's worth it.

It's a Loki liner, but Scott said to avoid soaking it, just in case it absorbs water and expands. But, it the heat method fails, I have nothing to lose, right?

Bat-mite said:

I said I forgot to grease the liner. Normally I do, and it comes right out. Better if it is warm, right after flight.

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I stand by my statement. Most of the time when I use grease on the liner, it becomes glued to the case. YMMV

jimzcatz said:

I stand by my statement. Most of the time when I use grease on the liner, it becomes glued to the case. YMMV

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It may depend on the grease used?

I use the silicon lithium grease for AT, CTI and Loki and I have yet to have a liner stick.

Sometimes I have had to use a bit of persuasion, but thankfully nothing has become really stuck. However I have only used the hardware up to 54mm. So no experience with 75, 98 and 150.

I've had a liner glue itself to the case wall in an AMW 75mm case. I ended up using a 3/4in oak dowel cut at a sharp angle and press it through with my 10ton press. Once the oak got between the case and the liner, it split it up and I ended up pulling the rest out in little pieces. Should work the same as others suggested using PVC or aluminum channel but wont fail like PVC and no risk of marking the case like aluminum channel.

Bat-mite said:

Thanks, all. Scott from Loki recommended using a propane torch to heat it to launch temperature, then use the bulkhead to knock it out. I don't have a torch, so I have asked Scott if heating it in the oven wouldn't do the same thing. Waiting to hear back. May end up buying a torch ($18 at Home Depot vs. $45 for new casing).

This was the only time in my HPR career that I made these two mistakes at the same time: forgot to grease the liner, and didn't eject the liner while it was still warm from the launch.

I will let you know how it goes.

Oh, BTW, I don't think freezing would help because the liner is really heat-fused to the metal. Like glued.

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If someone told me to take a torch to the casing to heat it up, I would put it in the oven instead. You get even heating, I would be afraid to torch it!!

Some of us have experience with torches and the knowhow to evenly heat a tube. I have had the same experience and used one several times to get liners out after flying M-2200 skids. [notorious for sticking]. Do not attempt if you don't think you can do it. Not the time to learn.
Another alternative I used when torch not available [as in hotel room] turn hot water on in tub and hold under spout while rotating and moving back and forth, till the tube is so hot you can barely hold it.[use gloves or towel] then proceed with liner removal. This always worked just as well, but takes longer for heat transfer,[about 15 minutes vs 4-5 with torch]

Good luck, final note. I have always found that the liner usually will come out about as difficult as when it goes in. So dry fit load beforehand and spend any needed time sanding to fit,then .

Paul Robinson [from AMW] told me many years ago he never greased liners as it fills the microscopic airspaces between case and liner when hot... after cooling acts like glue. So if you DO use grease, use absolute minimum and barely coat liner, don't slather it on. And remove liner while still warm BEFORE grease sets or reheat later. He used Slick-50-one, on nozzles and O-rings, luckily I still have 2 tubes. Impossible to find these days as company was bought out and that product discontinued . 500 degree and best product ever made for this use.

Even after all that, sometimes a liner gets scorched, and no amount of coaxing will get it out, then the liner slicers mentioned,or a lot of good ole hard work is required...I've had those too.

blackjack2564 said:

So if you DO use grease, use absolute minimum and barely coat liner, don't slather it on.

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I have a nice method for applying grease that I use for CTI 38mm case rather than the greasing the whole liner, probably works for other cases too. On the liner there is a small bulge in the area that is over the forward closure’s seal. This is the largest point of the reaload (ignoring the rear closure) so I grease this area only. When you insert the reload a very thin layer of the grease is wiped along the length of the case (note that this will also provide grease for the rear closure as well). This makes both reamoval and cleanup a whole lot easier. Plus it also makes installing the reaload much easier too, you are a whole lot less likely to have issues with the threaded rear closure which is plastic and can be easily damaged when it’s difficult to push the reaload in.

Bat-mite said:

I don't have a torch, so I have asked Scott if heating it in the oven wouldn't do the same thing.

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I've always used the oven to free stuck liners. Works every time.