AeroTech Open Thread

The Rocketry Forum

Help Support The Rocketry Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
Charlie, kudos for coming here and braving the "slings and arrows". I was thinking that this thread had run it's course but maybe it still serves a purpose I can't fathom. Anyway Merry Christmas and happy holidays to you and the whole Aerotech family.

This thread is great for us to learn what we need to provide to the community, and even though I can't respond as often as I would like to I will always answer those who took the time to post here. Sure, some questions are easier than others but that's just part of it. I don't think there is any ill-will on here at all, just a consumer base that knows exactly what they want. That's a great thing to have, we just need to react a bit quicker when we can.
 
I've grew up in CT, lived in Boston, Indiana, Delaware, Utah, now Metrowest Boston. Easterners can be a bit cantankerous.

From what I'm reading here, your responses give an indication of some improvement...

PS: since I did not mention it, thanks!

We love the east coast and the east coasters! We cannot wait for Red Glare in April, hopefully we will see you there.
 
Heh. Agreed. There is nothing "econo" about Econojets. Why is AT so bad at naming their products?

F25W: $27.99 each
F20W: $44.99 /2 pack or $22.49 each
$27.99>$22.49

Admittedly the F20W isn't as much power, about 20% less, but you also don't pay haz fees for them. Sorry you don't like the name, I'll get our ad agency on it!
 
I thought I would post again on this thread. To give some feedback from a vendor's perspective. I'm a small local vendor. No website yet... been a vendor for 8 or so years.... been a Tripoli member a relative long time. #09356. Level 3...

We have a short flying season here in the northwest. Shutdowns due to fire danger in the summer... too cold in the winter.... but we have a great launch site with a 40,000 ft. waiver, and very large recovery area. Over the years I've seen numerous people get involved in the hobby. Some get in and seem to have twenty projects going all the time... they also seem the first to drop out just as quickly. Others get job changes... loss of income, or have to move... So the club numbers always seem to be growing, or shrinking. With new members coming and going.

Said that to say this. As a vendor... what am I supposed to stock..?? Each person seems to have their favorite flavor of motor. Some like red, some like smokey, some like slow, some like fast. I have close to $50,000 in inventory. Seems like a lot, but I don't have everything....

Here's the problem... even with that much inventory.... I will still have someone come to me and ask for the ONE item I don't have.... for example.... when Aerotech came out with the I65W... I ordered one to have on hand. Well after a couple years... I finally sold it this last Wednesday.... Sure enough yesterday someone else asked for one.... UGH!!! Is this Aerotech's fault, or mine?? Do I need to bring my inventory up another $10,000, or $20,000?

Ad a vendor, I try to anticipate my customers' needs/wants. Both new and old. Yes it would be nice to just place small orders every couple weeks, and have them delivered like Amazon prime.... but as mentioned by others... shipping and hazmat fees add up. Therefore, I try to place large orders, less often.

Same goes with hardware. Several years back. There was a run on 38/720 hardware. I raised my stock level to 5 complete motors.... I've sold 0 over the past 2-3 years.... the 38/600 seems to be what people in our club want... have two on backorder. Several years ago, i had a family that loved the G53J's. I would have 1 or 2 of each delays, and they would buy all of them. After a couple times, I raised my inventory levels to 3 each.... yep you guessed it.... I have all 9 still.... they moved to something else. Stocking hardware is tougher, as it is slower to move.

Now if I was depending on this hobby business to pay my bills, I would be much more concerned with specific item turn over ratios. As a business.... inventory costs money to have. Also, not having inventory that could be sold today, costs money.

I am always trying to anticipate what my customers want. I have enough money coming in from my 'normal business' that I have wiggle room. But, it still is a balancing act. I could spend more money on shipping and hazmat fees, by ordering more often. I can also have upset customers by not having everything in stock... which also includes stock for quick warranty items... I could and probably will raise my inventory levels....

There has been times over the years. That I have placed an order with Aerotech, and had it within 10 days. Same with my other vendor. Who also has backorders. The hobby seems to be in a growing phase... how long this will last is hard to guess. Having problems with a fire at other major motor supplier could also play a factor. Another motor supplier moved their facility, which could also affect supply. Our hobby is not like Amazon prime. We are a small community... with a very cool hobby.

Why should Aerotech be expected to put all of there resources into outsourcing to get hardware that they may have to set on for months, or years. Or worse yet come in faulty. They can't outsource the manufacturing of the motors. To increase the production facility itself would take time and money. AND remember... we could be headed to a slowdown...???

Another point I want to address is... why don't all of you stock up? You may not have a rocket that uses a 38mm or a 54mm motor today... but who knows you might in a year...?? Maybe you need to stock up on 'backup' hardware... in case you lose or damage yours..?? What if a buddy needs something...?? When you see one of your favorite motors... why not pick up two or three?Then you can just go to your own supplies and pick what you want... no waiting, no backorders, no problems... or is there..?? Maybe you are like the suppliers and us vendors and have a budget and/or space limitation. Now try to guess and use your budget to include a bunch of customers....

Rick
Treasure Valley Rocketry

Thanks Rick, I know there are challenges out there and I appreciate you sharing them with the rocketry community. You are a great example of what some might consider a "small" dealer. But from my vantage point I have seen growth from you over the last couple years so it is important that we can continue to send you product so that you can continue to grow.

And you are correct about stock and inventory. It is a balancing act and there is no right answer. All we can do on our end is try and build inventory which we have on the hobby stuff and plan to on the HP lines. $50,000 seems like a lot but in this industry it doesn't cover as much as you'd think. For 2019 we are aiming to get the lead time on 54mm and up back to 2-4 weeks and we are aiming to stock 38mm HP and below.
 
I'd like to respond to your question about buying more than you need in terms of motors and hardware, so you have extra if/when there is a backorder. As someone who flies both personally (both model and HPR) and competitively (TARC, Battle of the Rockets, and Nasa Student Launch), I think I've got a somewhat different perspective than a lot of the purely personal fliers. For a competition, we can't order motors 2 years in advance - we don't know what the rocket and payload requirements are going to be until that year! Furthermore, our funding often comes in on a per school year basis, and not until the beginning of said school year, at the earliest. That means the earliest we could even conceivably order motors is September (which I've always tried to do), and for a lot of those competitions, you have to be flying before winter break. That's not a lot of time to design, build, test, and fly a rocket, especially a complicated HPR project like Battle of the Rockets or Student Launch tend to be. After 6 years of flying TARC, even I could tell what the motor of choice was going to be as soon as the rules were released. If it was a two egg year, the F39 was going to be impossible to find come December or January. If it was one egg, the E28 was going to vanish (ok TBH I'm clueless on this new 3 egg thing they're doing this year!). For the other competitions, the motor requirements are a lot more varied, since it depends a lot more on the exact design of the rocket and payload, but again, we have to order at most 2-3 months in advance because of the structure of those competitions. I'm only going to briefly mention the logistical nightmare of trying to get a vendor approved to order from, so when our usual sources don't have motors, it can really put a lot of these teams in a bind. For example, last year, we had to switch from the I600 to the J500 for Battle of the Rockets, because both our rocket and payload ended up heavier than initially anticipated (the rocket was my fault - grossly underestimated the weight difference between a phenolic and paper motor mount tube, and the then necessary epoxy). However, by the time we figured this out, it was mid-January, and we had 3 months until competition. Of our approved vendors, only one of them had J500's in stock, and he only had one. We bought that one, and backordered 5 more. Those didn't arrive until this summer. Luckily, we were able to compete because I had one personally (one of my favorite J motors), and was able to order a couple more from a vendor we haven't been able to get on the approved vendor list yet (if you're reading this, thanks so much for the speedy delivery!) and just get reimbursed in kind when the backorder eventually came in. As a personal flier, yes, I can buy a motor a year or two years in advance of when I'm going to use it, or just wait the 6 months to fly that project I've spent the last year and a half working on. As a competitive flier, that's simply not an option, either in time or money.

Thanks for the perspective. We have adapted over the years for the many competitions, and you will see most if not all of the TARC motors in stock. The college competitions are a little trickier because the motors are larger and require a larger lead time.

For instance, last year at IREC we had several teams who were not able to get brand x in time and were scrambling for last minute substitutions. So we have been building 75mm reloads for inventory when possible, but you never really know what team is going to want what motor until the deadline is there.
 
I’ve lost 3 24/40 casings this year and I frankly can’t afford to keep losing them, much less stock up. Lost one due to wind (i know where the rocket is and I won’t give up), lost the second to an E11 CATO, and lost the third (and my Rubicon) to an E11 acting more like an E28. I’m L1 certed but I’ve gone with Loki because of the cost of Aerotech (gotta go where the cost is cheaper when you’re on a college budget).

2 questions:

1.) Did you file a warranty claim so we could replace the 24/40 on the cato?
2.) Loki makes E motors?
 
Too late to edit this.... however that 2001 order form a few posts back shows the RMS 24/40 motor at $45. It looks like it went up to $55 this year I think... not bad says I. AT held the line on price for 17 years it looks like. Not bad at all.

With the current situation aluminum is just ridiculous right now. We can't get it fast enough and the prices are substantially higher. We had no choice but to bump up hardware which I hate to do. On the flip side, we will have it all in stock.
 
I can understand a price hike when production is down, but when production comes up, prices should go back down. It'll balance out in the end if they know what they're doing.

Price hikes have nothing to do with production levels being up or down. Raw materials, particularly chemicals and cardboard, have increased quite a bit. CTI raised theres a couple months before us for the same reasons.
 
That statement makes ZERO sense (prices don't change in the middle of a production run)!

As do many of the complaints above: yo'll want infinite availability from ALL the vendors, bearing infinite inventory cost, AND low prices to go with it.

I know this is a free-for-all internet forum, but common folks, apply a common sense filter before you post something silly!

In the meantime, Marry Xmas to all the vendors and all the flyers!

a

I know I missed the holidays so a belated Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to you all!
 
Merry Christmas my man Charlie , Gary and Karl and the AT staff.

My range box is packed with AT goodies as non haz reloads are fairly cost effective and easily replaced ..which is good because we dont have a regular onsite vendor for TRA prefuncture #5.

Have seen some other changes this year..most RMS reloads are shipping with long delays, in dms style pkg instead of bags, and have seen updated instructions too.

Also seen some progress with orphan cases like the 24/60 with a multiple loads now.

I am glad your composite Es dont start at $16.99, am glad you pay Kalifornia fire marshall, and have hobby size LPR motors, HPR , and even a 98mm O that doesnt require hardware.

Kenny

Happy belated Merry Christmas Kenny!

Thanks for the feedback, will you be at NSL?
 
What is the purpose of this thread??? I am newish to this forum and have only been flying rockets for a couple of years. I was hoping to learn some things from seasoned rocket people. I clearly remember when I got my L1 cert for HPR everyone said "Welcome to High Power Rocketry!" HPR means "high price rocketry", get your wallet out!!! This thread seems to be 92 pages of winning and crying about the fact that bigger rockets and motors cost money and parts may not allows be available. Thought winning and crying wasn't allowed in HP rockets... Estes makes some cheap A motors and then there is play dough and checkers and such...

All I can say is welcome to the forum! If you have any questions or comments (even complaints) that you want to discuss in a public setting then you are at the right place. You can also email [email protected] for additional information.
 
afaik a demo flight was done at LDRS 37 this year.

Dan Michael flew it in his Amy Baby Doll at NSL this year, that was awesome. One was flown at LDRS but I didn't see it, heard it was awesome. Unfortunately the demo at Hellfire did not go well as the propellant was a little too soft still. Thanks to Chris Baker for his R&D contributions and the photo.
 

Attachments

  • IMG_7081.JPG
    IMG_7081.JPG
    31.9 KB · Views: 167
We expect it to be certified in the next 30-45 days. When/where do you plan on flying it?

I don't know about Rich, but I'm very interested in the M1955 DM. I have a couple of rockets that would like this load. I'm bummed that I didn't get to see it at the last LDRS, but would be ready to fly it at the next one.
Can't wait for LDRS at Airfest. Gotta love that Dark Matter!
 
We expect it to be certified in the next 30-45 days. When/where do you plan on flying it?
SodBlaster II Labor Day 2019 at the TriCities Rocketeers/Tripoli Southeast Washingtons 4 day event, in a OOP GLR Nuclear Sledgehammer, it will be an awesome flight. The rocket is in the final stretch now with only the wings tip to tip and paint and decals to finish.
 
Last edited:
We love the east coast and the east coasters! We cannot wait for Red Glare in April, hopefully we will see you there.

Hmmm... I'll have to look into Red Glare I think. We'll be having our "Winter Follies" launch tomorrow with a projected high of 20 F. Yes it's not exactly Wisconsin, but at sea level, the denser air slurps off a lot more heat!
 
I don't know about Rich, but I'm very interested in the M1955 DM. I have a couple of rockets that would like this load. I'm bummed that I didn't get to see it at the last LDRS, but would be ready to fly it at the next one.
Can't wait for LDRS at Airfest. Gotta love that Dark Matter!

Wayco,
Can we fit these in our Punishers??? We need to try!!! Dark matter Drag Race v2.0... :D:D
 

Latest posts

Back
Top