WARNING ! ASBESTOS in BABY POWDER !

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Winston said:
Then how does reasonable doubt not come into play causing a loss for any class action lawsuit claiming a tie when none is proven? Should they lose their case? With a jury following the law, they should.
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Civil suits don't have nearly the burden of proof (I think they should, would reduce frivolous suits) that criminal cases do. 'Beyond a reasonable doubt' is a criminal case requirement.
 
It has been known for a long time that talcum powder can contain asbestos. It is also known that apples contain arsenic. And, most toothpastes contain poison. None of these things are likely to cause you any harm.
 
Yes Dave, Mesothelioma has a onset time between 10-40 years (just took a Class IV Asbestos refresher class last week, and I get them every 2 years), however they have not yet linked the baby powder to Mesothelioma (afaik) and until they do I am not worrying about it. If you have ever changed the brakes on a vehicle you have exposed yourself to asbestos dust in a far higher concentration than is suspected of being in talcum baby powder. And for the life of me I have a very hard time making a link between ovarian cancer and asbestos, the reason being that Asbestos primarily (almost exclusively) attacks the lungs whether through Mesothelioma or Asbestos, odds are the Mesothelioma will be fatal long before the cancer metastasizes and starts to spread to the rest of the body including the ovaries. I have issues with both this lawsuit and the one over RoundUp.
 
Guys mesothelioma is comes inhaling asbestos particles from insulation. You would be hard pressed to get enough from baby powder. It takes years of exposure and more years to develop.

Ovarian cancer from baby powder is suspected to be from absorption from mucous membranes. Unless you are rubbing on you gums or other moist areas, it unlikely to have the same effect.
 
Not that I trust the media to not hype something. I think J&J's liability is not in that the cancer connection has been proven, it's that they tried to hide the apparently occasional presence of asbestos in their baby powder.

Special Report: J&J knew for decades that asbestos lurked in its Baby Powder

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...estos-lurked-in-its-baby-powder-idUSKBN1OD1RQ

Excerpt:

LOS ANGELES (Reuters) - Darlene Coker knew she was dying. She just wanted to know why.

She knew that her cancer, mesothelioma, arose in the delicate membrane surrounding her lungs and other organs. She knew it was as rare as it was deadly, a signature of exposure to asbestos. And she knew it afflicted mostly men who inhaled asbestos dust in mines and industries such as shipbuilding that used the carcinogen before its risks were understood.

Coker, 52 years old, had raised two daughters and was running a massage school in Lumberton, a small town in eastern Texas. How had she been exposed to asbestos? “She wanted answers,” her daughter Cady Evans said.

Fighting for every breath and in crippling pain, Coker hired Herschel Hobson, a personal-injury lawyer. He homed in on a suspect: the Johnson’s Baby Powder that Coker had used on her infant children and sprinkled on herself all her life. Hobson knew that talc and asbestos often occurred together in the earth, and that mined talc could be contaminated with the carcinogen. Coker sued Johnson & Johnson, alleging that “poisonous talc” in the company’s beloved product was her killer.

J&J denied the claim. Baby Powder was asbestos-free, it said. As the case proceeded, J&J was able to avoid handing over talc test results and other internal company records Hobson had requested to make the case against Baby Powder.

Coker had no choice but to drop her lawsuit, Hobson said. “When you are the plaintiff, you have the burden of proof,” he said. “We didn’t have it.”

That was in 1999. Two decades later, the material Coker and her lawyer sought is emerging as J&J has been compelled to share thousands of pages of company memos, internal reports and other confidential documents with lawyers for some of the 11,700 plaintiffs now claiming that the company’s talc caused their cancers — including thousands of women with ovarian cancer.

A Reuters examination of many of those documents, as well as deposition and trial testimony, shows that from at least 1971 to the early 2000s, the company’s raw talc and finished powders sometimes tested positive for small amounts of asbestos, and that company executives, mine managers, scientists, doctors and lawyers fretted over the problem and how to address it while failing to disclose it to regulators or the public.

The documents also depict successful efforts to influence U.S. regulators’ plans to limit asbestos in cosmetic talc products and scientific research on the health effects of talc.

A small portion of the documents have been produced at trial and cited in media reports. Many were shielded from public view by court orders that allowed J&J to turn over thousands of documents it designated as confidential. Much of their contents is reported here for the first time.
 
There are many carcinogenic materials in the environment we all live, both naturally occurring and man made. Another consideration is that each individuals own physiology will dictate along with the above mentioned materials whether one will develop a disease or cancer. All we can do is to use common sense and to exercise reasonable caution when we are knowingly going to be potentially in contact with these things.

One more thing: I thought this forum was about model rocketry. That is why I joined. To reignite @ 60 years old my old hobby of model rocketry begun in 1968 until around 1977 when marriage and a career took over much of my free time, not the American Cancer Institute.
 
The original purpose of my post was to inform Rocketeers of a possible threat to their health.

Unfortunately, with the long Latency Period of Mesothelioma, the exposure could have occurred as far back as the 1970's, more than 40 years ago.

Rocketeers experiencing respiratory difficulties, should mention the use of baby powder, as neither doctors nor patients might think of that possibility, offhand.

Stay safe & fly high !

Dave F.
 
As a kid, I remember my friends and I following the trailer mounted sprayers spraying the trees for Dutch Elm disease. We would stay across the street from them and sniff in that slightly sweet smell of DDT. Took in quite a bit of that stuff, still here yet at 63. Us Baby Boomers were exposed to all sorts of crap that has now been banned. https://ehsmanager.blogspot.com/2011/06/love-smell-of-ddt-in-mornin.html
 
Ez2cDave said:
The original purpose of my post was to inform Rocketeers of a possible threat to their health.

Unfortunately, with the long Latency Period of Mesothelioma, the exposure could have occurred as far back as the 1970's, more than 40 years ago.

Rocketeers experiencing respiratory difficulties, should mention the use of baby powder, as neither doctors nor patients might think of that possibility, offhand.

Stay safe & fly high !

Dave F.
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Dave, I understand your point. However, with a condition that might develop over decades long period it would be difficult to point to one potential material unless the person is involved with it on a day to day basis such as in its manufacture. Percentages in a given quantity are typically very small. So I might suggest ones doctor would not be inclined to think that this material is the cause.
Now if we want to talk about the use of polyester resins, solvent based contact adhesives (MEK) that can be absorbed and collect in the liver...
Tom
 
Tom Howe said:
One more thing: I thought this forum was about model rocketry. That is why I joined. To reignite @ 60 years old my old hobby of model rocketry begun in 1968 until around 1977 when marriage and a career took over much of my free time, not the American Cancer Institute.
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Baby powder is often used with low power rocketry plastic 'chutes to prevent them from sticking together and failing to deploy, especially in cold weather. It is also used as spotting powder. So, the dangers of baby powder, if any, ARE relevant to rocketry, especially when the low power stuff is the type most used by children.
 
Tom Howe said:
One more thing: I thought this forum was about model rocketry. That is why I joined. To reignite @ 60 years old my old hobby of model rocketry begun in 1968 until around 1977 when marriage and a career took over much of my free time, not the American Cancer Institute.
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Some of us powder our chutes with baby powder. Some of us also belong to populations with increased risk of cancer or respiratory disease.

parachutepowder.png

Got this stuff as a gift when our kid was an infant. At about the same time that the news from China was about poisoned dog food, poisoned toothpaste, and melamine in the milk. Kept it as a souvenir. Now, I guess, it is moving out of the field-box.
 
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jlabrasca said:
Some of us powder our chutes with baby powder. Some of us also belong to populations with increased risk of cancer or respiratory disease.

View attachment 369178

Got this stuff as a gift when our kid was an infant. At about the same time that the news from China was about poisoned dog food, poisoned toothpaste, and melamine in the milk. Kept it as a souvenir. Now, I guess, it is moving out of the field-box.
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Before throwing it out check the ingredients not all baby powders (including Johnson brand) are made with Talc, many are Cornstarch these days) as it has absorbent properties.
 
There's no danger in using talcum powder on your parachutes.

Cornstarch, on the other hand, is flammable and should never be used in a rocket.
 
rharshberger said:
Paging K'tesh, for translation of Chinese....
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Thanks, but members of my household are fluent -- if not particularly interested doing a full translation of the label of a product that we were never going to use for its intended purpose, and which -- even if ingredients were listed -- would not give us useful information about contaminants.

I will say this, whatever they used to scent it is insanely potent. It has been outgassing into my closed range box since the first week of October. Opening it this afternoon released a cloud of synthetic potpourri that made all three floors of the house smell like a Victoria's Secret had opened in the candle-making aisle of a Michael's craft store.

jadebox said:
There's no danger in using talcum powder on your parachutes.

Cornstarch, on the other hand, is flammable and should never be used in a rocket.
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Puts a different complexion on the idea of tracking powder. "Watch for the fireball"

 
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Back to rocketry. If we could figure out how to do that at apogee BP could be eliminated.
 
it is possible to buy unscented talc, I got some from the drug store(not sure if it was Walmart) it came in a 1 pound container.
Rex
 
Tom Howe said:
One more thing: I thought this forum was about model rocketry. That is why I joined. To reignite @ 60 years old my old hobby of model rocketry begun in 1968 until around 1977 when marriage and a career took over much of my free time, not the American Cancer Institute.
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We are in this Forum:

The Watering Hole
An area where general discussions can take place, that don't necessarily fit well into other categories. This can relate to rocketry, general chat, or any other topic not prohibited by TRF rules and guidelines.

Dave F.
 
Steve Shannon said:
Not really; cornstarch requires oxygen to combust. It can only react like this when dispersed in air and ignited. BP contains its own oxidizer.
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Steve,

Of course, if an Oxidizer were mixed into the the Cornstarch . . . or other easily-obtained powders.

Another possibility is powdered, non-dairy creamer.

There are few other possible candidates in the video below.

Dave F.

 
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Rex R said:
it is possible to buy unscented talc, I got some from the drug store(not sure if it was Walmart) it came in a 1 pound container.
Rex
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Yes, but would it sedate a baby?

Ez2cDave said:
Steve,

Of course, if an Oxidizer were mixed into the the Cornstarch . . . or other easily-obtained powders.
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But then you'd have to flame-proof the airframe somehow. Too bad you can't get asbestos anymore because of California's Prop. 65 warnings and our overly litigious and chemophobic/oncophobic society. Back in my day we used sprinkle Sweet & Low on our Red Dye #2 M&Ms and wash then down with big glasses of polyunsaturated cooking oil, then we'd shower in DDT to keep the Dutch Elm Disease off us. Of course we had to fight our way through flocks of peregrine falcons on our way to school -- wonder what happened to them?
 

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