Off-the-shelf multi-pad launch controller options?

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Faroutspacenut

Faroutspacenut

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Looking for an inexpensive off-the-shelf launch controller option for multiple (low power) pads. I would LOVE to make my own, but just don't have the time or the skills to pull that off right now. Is the Pratt Hobbies Sixpack my best bet? Anything else out there?
 
Faroutspacenut said:
Looking for an inexpensive off-the-shelf launch controller option for multiple (low power) pads. I would LOVE to make my own, but just don't have the time or the skills to pull that off right now. Is the Pratt Hobbies Sixpack my best bet? Anything else out there?
Click to expand...
We just purchased one with our club, looks like it'll be a great unit. Can't beat the price either.
 
Hello Rob,

It might make a difference as to how you define inexpensive? Inexpensive compared to what?

As I'm sure you've heard before now, you get what you pay for. The Pratt system is a good system. I do not deny that. But it is not a very flexible system. The only way to make it bigger is to buy more of them. And it has very few features beyond continuity. It is a 6 pad system and that's all there is.

I happen to be the owner operator of Wilson F/X Digital Control Systems. There are now 42 clubs and 19 individuals with Wilson F/X digital launch control systems. I guarantee my systems for 10 years against any internal system defects. And I've got a 23 year track record of Wilson F/X digital launch system technology being in the hands of rocket clubs across this land of ours. Oh yeah and Australia and the Netherlands. So I do speak with some experience in the marketplace of launch control systems.

There are several threads in the ground support section that deal with "club sized systems. I would suggest reading thru them.

But a basic 8-pad Wilson F/X system will cost you $700 which is one LCU-64 and an PBU-8 eight-pad pad-box to go with it. The controller is a 64 pad controller, up to eight banks of eight pads each.

The WFX system does voltage reading of the battery at the pads, at the pads and remotely thru the controller. Your Wilson F/X system can be upgraded to wireless. The continuity circuit in a Wilson F/X system is even flashbulb safe for those of us who remember using flashbulbs for igniters.

If you want a Pratt system to operate 6 pads at 100 feet from the LCO table you will have to lay down 600 feet of extension cords to go between the controller and the pads. With Wilson F/X you would only need 100 feet of cord to reach out to 8-pads at 100 feet away pads.

If you want the Pratt system to go out to 6 pads at 200 feet from the LCO table you'll need 1200 feet of extension cords. with Wilson F/X you'd need 200 feet of extension cords to reach all 8 pads at 200 feet from the LCO table.

And if you want 6 pads at 100 feet and 6 pads at 200 feet, the Pratt system will need 1800 feet of extension cords out to those 12 pads. Wilson F/X would need just 200 feet to reach 16 pads, 8 at 100 feet and 8 at 200 feet from the LCO. You just plug the second 100 feet into the first hundred feet cord for Wilson F/X.

So yes, Pratt's 6-pack will only cost you $150, but you have to add the costs for extra extension cords for each individual pad, as well the time to lay them out and roll them up at the end of the launch. Then compare that to A Wilson F/X systems set up and take down time and the cost in "man-hours" for Wilson F/X goes down hugely.

If you're interested, I've attached a current price list which has short but accurate descriptions of each of the various components in the Wilson F/X family of digital launch control units.

Let me know if you have any questions. Or if you'd prefer you can contact me at:
[email protected]
as well.

Brad, the "Rocket Rev.," Wilson
TRA #1630 L-3
NAR #70929 L-3
 

Attachments

  • Current Price list for Wilson FX components.pdf
    120.7 KB · Views: 126
RocketRev said:
Hello Rob,

It might make a difference as to how you define inexpensive? Inexpensive compared to what?

As I'm sure you've heard before now, you get what you pay for. The Pratt system is a good system. I do not deny that. But it is not a very flexible system. The only way to make it bigger is to buy more of them. And it has very few features beyond continuity. It is a 6 pad system and that's all there is.

I happen to be the owner operator of Wilson F/X Digital Control Systems. There are now 42 clubs and 19 individuals with Wilson F/X digital launch control systems. I guarantee my systems for 10 years against any internal system defects. And I've got a 23 year track record of Wilson F/X digital launch system technology being in the hands of rocket clubs across this land of ours. Oh yeah and Australia and the Netherlands. So I do speak with some experience in the marketplace of launch control systems.

There are several threads in the ground support section that deal with "club sized systems. I would suggest reading thru them.

But a basic 8-pad Wilson F/X system will cost you $700 which is one LCU-64 and an PBU-8 eight-pad pad-box to go with it. The controller is a 64 pad controller, up to eight banks of eight pads each.

The WFX system does voltage reading of the battery at the pads, at the pads and remotely thru the controller. Your Wilson F/X system can be upgraded to wireless. The continuity circuit in a Wilson F/X system is even flashbulb safe for those of us who remember using flashbulbs for igniters.

If you want a Pratt system to operate 6 pads at 100 feet from the LCO table you will have to lay down 600 feet of extension cords to go between the controller and the pads. With Wilson F/X you would only need 100 feet of cord to reach out to 8-pads at 100 feet away pads.

If you want the Pratt system to go out to 6 pads at 200 feet from the LCO table you'll need 1200 feet of extension cords. with Wilson F/X you'd need 200 feet of extension cords to reach all 8 pads at 200 feet from the LCO table.

And if you want 6 pads at 100 feet and 6 pads at 200 feet, the Pratt system will need 1800 feet of extension cords out to those 12 pads. Wilson F/X would need just 200 feet to reach 16 pads, 8 at 100 feet and 8 at 200 feet from the LCO. You just plug the second 100 feet into the first hundred feet cord for Wilson F/X.

So yes, Pratt's 6-pack will only cost you $150, but you have to add the costs for extra extension cords for each individual pad, as well the time to lay them out and roll them up at the end of the launch. Then compare that to A Wilson F/X systems set up and take down time and the cost in "man-hours" for Wilson F/X goes down hugely.

If you're interested, I've attached a current price list which has short but accurate descriptions of each of the various components in the Wilson F/X family of digital launch control units.

Let me know if you have any questions. Or if you'd prefer you can contact me at:
[email protected]
as well.

Brad, the "Rocket Rev.," Wilson
TRA #1630 L-3
NAR #70929 L-3
Click to expand...
Since he is looking for LPR pad controllers, the Pratt only needs six 25' extension cords (inexpensive). For less than the $700 basic kit for the WFX, he can have 18 LPR (3xSixPack and cords). Granted the WFX is, if not the cadillac of launch systems right at the top and you do have a good rep and service. Our club would love to have a WFX system but the cost for 12 LPR, 8 MPR and 8 HPR is pretty prohibitive for even a moderate sized club where we measure our accounts in hundreds not thousands of dollars.
 
I should clarify, we purchased for a model power system as well. We have a beautiful wireless system developed by a local flier for our highpower stuff...we don't have to lay out any cable :)
 
I know the Rocket Rev loves to brag about his system he hawks so proudly.
All I can say was it DID NOT WORK WELL at Balls.
I wanted to use my own system, but the Balls staff really wanted to use their [new] FX system.
Well....after three long tries to light my motor, I finally pulled the wires and asked them to fire an e=match which FAILED!!!!
We wasted all of our "camera time" trying to get the system to fire.
Kinda a good thing the rocket failed. If we had made the Karman line without video because of the stupid launch system I would have been really pissed.
Instead, I just know to stay away from that system.....not good IMHO.

The Rev can diss my report, but it is what it is....a failure at Balls for me.
 
FredA said:
I know the Rocket Rev loves to brag about his system he hawks so proudly.
All I can say was it DID NOT WORK WELL at Balls.
I wanted to use my own system, but the Balls staff really wanted to use their [new] FX system.
Well....after three long tries to light my motor, I finally pulled the wires and asked them to fire an e=match which FAILED!!!!
We wasted all of our "camera time" trying to get the system to fire.
Kinda a good thing the rocket failed. If we had made the Karman line without video because of the stupid launch system I would have been really pissed.
Instead, I just know to stay away from that system.....not good IMHO.

The Rev can diss my report, but it is what it is....a failure at Balls for me.
Click to expand...

I forgot all about that Fred. There was also another team, the TU-Wien team, that tried unsuccessfully three different initiators. They eventually used their own system which worked first time.
We didn’t troubleshoot the Wilson at the time. Our very brief discussion out at the away cell was that we thought the batteries were simply inadequate for three days (this was on Sunday), but the LCO never saw anything on the controller that indicated bad batteries as far as I know, otherwise we wouldn’t have kept trying different initiators.
Thanks for the reminder; I’ll mention it to Tripoli Gerlach to see what needs to be done. It may have even been the same pad box.
 
We tried two different pad boxes and I think Chris swapped batteries too.
Just didn't appear up to the task at the away cell distance.
 
FredA said:
We tried two different pad boxes and I think Chris swapped batteries too.
Just didn't appear up to the task at the away cell distance.
Click to expand...
FredA said:
I know the Rocket Rev loves to brag about his system he hawks so proudly.
All I can say was it DID NOT WORK WELL at Balls.
I wanted to use my own system, but the Balls staff really wanted to use their [new] FX system.
Well....after three long tries to light my motor, I finally pulled the wires and asked them to fire an e=match which FAILED!!!!
We wasted all of our "camera time" trying to get the system to fire.
Kinda a good thing the rocket failed. If we had made the Karman line without video because of the stupid launch system I would have been really pissed.
Instead, I just know to stay away from that system.....not good IMHO.

The Rev can diss my report, but it is what it is....a failure at Balls for me.
Click to expand...
I am sorry about the issues you experienced at BALLS with the Wilson F/X system. We are aware that there were issues and we are working on finding a solution. The away cells are a different animal as you well know. Sadly, being here in Ohio we really cannot test until we get onto the playa. I would be interested in knowing:

1) What other teams experienced an issue at the away cell
2) Can we identify which pad box it was that caused the issue or issues
 
pondman said:
I am sorry about the issues you experienced at BALLS with the Wilson F/X system. We are aware that there were issues and we are working on finding a solution. The away cells are a different animal as you well know. Sadly, being here in Ohio we really cannot test until we get onto the playa. I would be interested in knowing:

1) What other teams experienced an issue at the away cell
2) Can we identify which pad box it was that caused the issue or issues
Click to expand...

I tried to make a mental note, but in the excitement that day apparently it got flushed from my FIFO. I didn’t even think of it again until Fred’s comment. It’s particularly relevant to me because my club is looking at getting a Wilson system.
 
After our recent experience with wireless systems TriCities Rocketeers has decided to expand our wired MPR and HPR system. The only wireless we plan is for the away cell, we have had very very few issues with our wired system over the years, while it isnt "feature rich" as it only provides continuity check at the pad and the issues have usually been a low battery, dirty clips, or a bad relay, all of which are cheap and easy to fix, and really, running the wire for each box only takes a couple of minutes.
 
Steve Shannon said:
I tried to make a mental note, but in the excitement that day apparently it got flushed from my FIFO. I didn’t even think of it again until Fred’s comment. It’s particularly relevant to me because my club is looking at getting a Wilson system.
Click to expand...
Steve,

I believe that under "normal" conditions the Wilson F/X system is an excellent choice. Tripoli Mid Ohio has had zero issues with it since its purchase several years ago. If you will remember, there were no issues with the remainder of the pads at BALLS; at lease that I am aware of. Bill Good and Joe Grubb have been in contact with Brad regarding the issues and we will be testing a couple of solutions. Of course, central Ohio is not Black Rock.... :)
 
For the record, RIMRA purchased a Wilson FX system last year, and it has worked great for our MPR and HPR pads. No issues at all. But we are launching relatively tame stuff (F-J motors) compared to the stuff that goes on at the away cell at a launch like Balls.
 
BDB said:
For the record, RIMRA purchased a Wilson FX system last year, and it has worked great for our MPR and HPR pads. No issues at all. But we are launching relatively tame stuff (F-J motors) compared to the stuff that goes on at the away cell at a launch like Balls.
Click to expand...
My take is it is not the size of the motor, but the distance from the range head to the away cells. Lots of M, N and O motor flights at BALLS with no issues.
 
pondman said:
My take is it is not the size of the motor, but the distance from the range head to the away cells. Lots of M, N and O motor flights at BALLS with no issues.
Click to expand...

Also i understand the BR Playa is not very RF friendly....
 
jderimig said:
Also i understand the BR Playa is not very RF friendly....
Click to expand...

That’s true for transmitters in rockets laying on the playa, but these units were mounted on tripods with an antenna well above the ground.
I don’t believe that this is indicative of a bad design on Wilson’s part. Right now it’s just an undiagnosed problem. The batteries appeared very small to me. I would not be surprised if that’s all it was.
 
Steve Shannon said:
That’s true for transmitters in rockets laying on the playa, but these units were mounted on tripods with an antenna well above the ground.
I don’t believe that this is indicative of a bad design on Wilson’s part. Right now it’s just an undiagnosed problem. The batteries appeared very small to me. I would not be surprised if that’s all it was.
Click to expand...
Batteries should be more than adequate. We will be sure we check/charge batteries next year.
 
Well this on went off the launch rail a little :). Thanks Brad for the very compelling pitch for your system. The high-power club I fly with has Wilson F/X and it works great for us, but what I'm looking for here is for my own personal use at my local low-power field. They have an 8 pad sawhorse and 4-5 larger stand alone pads which work great, but they also often have long lines of scout/school groups in attendance. 80 kids waiting for 8 pads and only time to get 8-10 flying rounds in a day... you can do the math.

So I'd like to bypass the line and have my own setup. Since it's usually just my two kids and I, a three-pad controller would probably be enough, but I've yet to find that option for something I don't make myself. Looks like this could be a niche that isn't quite filled in our hobby.
 
Faroutspacenut said:
So I'd like to bypass the line and have my own setup. Since it's usually just my two kids and I, a three-pad controller would probably be enough, but I've yet to find that option for something I don't make myself. Looks like this could be a niche that isn't quite filled in our hobby.
Click to expand...

Indeed. I wound up getting the circuit used by our local GSE-builder to make a three-pad setup that I use for myself and small group launches. Our club’s 10-pad system (in two banks of five) uses the same basic design.

When we have a whole bunch of scouts come I bring out both club banks and my three-pad setup.

But a commercially-available three or four pad launch controller that wasn’t too bell/whistle-heavy does seem like an unfulfilled market niche (albeit probably too small).
 
Faroutspacenut said:
Well this on went off the launch rail a little :). Thanks Brad for the very compelling pitch for your system. The high-power club I fly with has Wilson F/X and it works great for us, but what I'm looking for here is for my own personal use at my local low-power field. They have an 8 pad sawhorse and 4-5 larger stand alone pads which work great, but they also often have long lines of scout/school groups in attendance. 80 kids waiting for 8 pads and only time to get 8-10 flying rounds in a day... you can do the math.

So I'd like to bypass the line and have my own setup. Since it's usually just my two kids and I, a three-pad controller would probably be enough, but I've yet to find that option for something I don't make myself. Looks like this could be a niche that isn't quite filled in our hobby.
Click to expand...

This one is simple:
https://www.nar.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/Multi-Pad-Launch-Controller-John-Hruby.pdf
 
Steve Shannon said:
That’s a six volt system for igniting electric matches. It might not provide enough current for igniters.
Click to expand...
I use one of these for test burns. 14500's give it about 14.8 and plenty of snap. If you go with AA's, do Energizer Ultimate ( LiFeS2 ), it makes a real difference.
 

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