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Before anyone gets too freaked out (too late), here are some interesting articles:

https://www.wired.com/magazine/2011/02/ff_joelinchina/

And, interestingly enough, this one:

https://www.wired.com/magazine/2011/02/ff_madeinamerica/

Other folks have made similiar observations...basically, the things that can hurt us in the global economy can help us in the local economy.

As fuel costs go up, it makes more sense to manufacture locally.

As the dollar decreases relative to other currencies, it makes offshore stuff more expensive to buy.

There are plenty of things still made here...like someone else said, several 'foreign' car brands are made here in the USA. And we're not talking a plant full of foreign nationals with just worker bees as local employment. The plant is mostly US citizens...all the way up and down the chain. I should know, one of my friends spooled up the Toyota plant just across town (an engineer) and left because VW recruited him for their new plant in Tennessee.

My next door neighbor works in a die manufacturing plant, and business is booming. Another friend works for Nike in St. Louis. He's been with them for 20+ years and they don't seem to be going away anytime soon.

Manfacturing knowledge can be bought, or recruited. This isn't the old days...modern technologies allow for relatively rapid spoolup of capabilities...heck, even current 'on demand' manufacturing is profitable.

Things change, technologies advance, but we adapt.

FC
 
yes several foreign cars are made here, but where do the profits go. do you think foreign car makers are building here because they want to improve our bottom line? if it wasnt profitable for them, they wouldnt do it.

my theory on buying everything from china is that since china holds #1 position for buying our debt, there must be stipulations that usa has to spend a certaion percentage on chinese products.

i love it, you borrow money from me but to lend it to you you have to buy my products. sounds like the days of old when coalminers owed their paychecks to the company store.
 
Rocket_Man said:
yes several foreign cars are made here, but where do the profits go. do you think foreign car makers are building here because they want to improve our bottom line? if it wasnt profitable for them, they wouldnt do it.
Click to expand...

So? By your own reasoning, it means that American companies that use Chinese labor get the profits of items sold by said company.

Where do profits for products we sell overseas (of which there are a LOT) go? That's why it's called trade.

FC
 
Last edited:
FastCargo said:
So?

Where do profits for products we sell overseas (of which there are a LOT) go? That's why it's called trade.

FC
Click to expand...

For what it's worth, we import way more from China than we export. It's over 4:1, probably closer to 5:1 now.
 
powderburner said:
I have been reading reports on trends in China for quite a while, and I am not so sure they are the big bad boogeyman that some folks claim they are.

Years and years of the 'one child' policy, together with cultural preference for male children and societal allowance for abortion on demand, all has led China to a situation where there aren't enough women to go around. Which leads to fewer families, fewer children, future population shrinkage....

Since a huge portion of their population wants to be in the 'big city' and bails from the farm at the first chance, their agricultural base is severely eroded. They are producing less food for more people....

Their industrial expansion has been so big, so fast, that there are huge pollution impacts. In most cities the air is so bad that it causes health problems, or if you already have health problems, it can kill you

Their military has been growing at a tremendous pace---to the point where they probably cannot sustain it over the long term. When people get tired of eating dirt and living in shacks, and get tired of seeing the government buy gobs of shiny new tanks and airplanes, that's when "the system" often starts to break down.

I'm not sure that we (on the other side of the world) have to worry much about China. They have a whole pile of problems with their immediate neighbors, pretty much on all sides (border fights with Russia, territorial claims in the Spratleys and other islands, Pakistan and India constantly trying to go at it right next door, etc). And they have one of the largest populations in the world, half of them currently living in the dirt, all becoming aware of the western level of lifestyle and comfort (after seeing it on TV), and all beginning to want nicer homes, air conditioning, cars, big TVs, and all the rest. They are going to have their hands full just keeping their own people happy, for quite a while.
Click to expand...
You have pointed out some important issues that they have going on over there right now. I watched a CNN report a while back about a Dust Bowl effect occurring over there similar to what happened here in the Midwest back in the thirties. Some of their cities are getting hit with sandstorms.

Makes you wonder how much they are holding back, could be much worse than we think.
 
InFlight said:
You have pointed out some important issues that they have going on over there right now. I watched a CNN report a while back about a Dust Bowl effect occurring over there similar to what happened here in the Midwest back in the thirties. Some of their cities are getting hit with sandstorms.

Makes you wonder how much they are holding back, could be much worse than we think.
Click to expand...

Beijing gets hit every year with sandstorms blowing in from the Gobi Desert. Deforestation south of the Gobi is allegedly the cause, so a reforestation effort is going on now, but it will be years before the problem is solved.
 
We are our own worst enemy. China is just more than willing to take every advantage that we allow them. The same is true of the rest of the world.


We used to have an attitude of America first in this country. Now it seems that the official policy is to let the world catch up. Don't look now but that's the rest of the world in our rear view mirror setting up to pass.
 
I have been wondering......will we ever hear from Zhu again, or have we scared him away?

I think it could be kinda cool to get some news about the rocketry materials and practices available in China. (Or for that matter, isn't there a lot of rocketry activity in Russia? Why don't we hear from any of those guys?)
 
I would suggest anybody from China who would read the sentiments expressed in this thread and others would probably not feel terribly welcome here.
It's been my experiance common folks don't set foriegn or domestic policy but are held accountable for them by others. Just my two cents worth.
Cheers
Fred
 
Iam pretty sure nobody is making any statement at all against any group of people from any country. After visiting a local launch I saw many nationalities
and everyone had a good time yelling the count down and clapping as the rocket made its flight.

I think what IS being discussed is the policy of the USA to buy so much product from China.

SUCH as yesterday when I went to the meat market the meat guy
pulled on some fresh gloves to handle the meat and guess what: the box the guy pulled the gloves out of were stamped "MADE IN CHINA". What I am questioning is that the USA cant even make plastic gloves anymore. You have got to be kidding me. :jaw:
 
Rocket_Man said:
SUCH as yesterday when I went to the meat market the meat guy
pulled on some fresh gloves to handle the meat and guess what: the box the guy pulled the gloves out of were stamped "MADE IN CHINA". What I am questioning is that the USA cant even make plastic gloves anymore. You have got to be kidding me. :jaw:
Click to expand...

How much extra would you be willing to pay for your meat if they used gloves made in the USA?
 
I just wish my money didnt go to support a Communist government that uses
slave labor to produce things. I would much rather spend my money in the USA
where it would provide jobs and financial security to my fellow neighbors. Thats just my opinion and I understand you probably have a different one.

BTW T-Bones already cost $18.00 dollars a pound, whats another dollar added to the cost. $18.00 - $19.00 is already ridiculous price, whats another dollar going to add?
 
That's fair enough, then. I just see/hear in general a lot of people complaining about things being Made In China, who suddenly go quiet when the see the price they'd have to pay for the same thing if it was made domestically.
 
Rocket_Man said:
I just wish my money didnt go to support a Communist government that uses
slave labor to produce things. I would much rather spend my money in the USA
where it would provide jobs and financial security to my fellow neighbors. Thats just my opinion and I understand you probably have a different one.

BTW T-Bones already cost $18.00 dollars a pound, whats another dollar added to the cost. $18.00 - $19.00 is already ridiculous price, whats another dollar going to add?
Click to expand...

Your money doesn't go to the Chinese government. It goes to the so-called American companies doing business in China and to the Chinese workers making the products. There is also no slave labor in China. People get paid for the work they do. Many of my friends in China are entrepeneurs and are doing quite well.

It's a shame that we are fed so much propaganda about life in other countries. There's always another side to the story.
 
It is alarming to me that so many of our products are made elsewhere. If we had to go to war again on a global scale, we could not be self sufficient. I understand the whole global economy thing, but we need to be more self reliant. As a country, we need to be less me-me-me and more we-we-we (well, that did not come out as well as I thought it would).

What happened to "ask not what your country can do for you - ask what you can do for your country"? We need to be more society driven and less self driven. Instant gratification and low cost cheaply made products are the problem with today. Few people want a great car that lasts 10-20 years. They want a cheap new car every 5-8.

Our companies can not produce products built by our workers at the same price as Chinese or Indian (India) workers. In some of our union factories, workers make $40-80 an hour when you include benefits. We can not compete with the work at those prices. And before someone gets mad, no I am not slamming Unions.
 
It's ironic I was talking to a Chinese engineer who was irritated China was losing jobs to Vietnam because of cheaper labour.
Cheers
fred
 
Fred22 said:
It's ironic I was talking to a Chinese engineer who was irritated China was losing jobs to Vietnam because of cheaper labour.
Cheers
fred
Click to expand...

You want irony, look up which cars are most made in America (percentage of parts made in America, assembled in America, by Americans, etc.). A Toyota topped the list in 2010 (and I think 2009 too), and IIRC a Honda was in the top 3. From a top 10 list on Cars.com.
 
And where do the profits go? Are the Japanese building cars here because they like us? What will happen to Japanese car prices when there is no longer an USA
automobile manufacturing base? Relax friend, the Japanese whom we dropped nuclear weapons on during WWII are your friend! They like you and are operating in your best interest.
 
Rocket_Man said:
And where do the profits go? Are the Japanese building cars here because they like us? What will happen to Japanese car prices when there is no longer an USA
automobile manufacturing base? Relax friend, the Japanese whom we dropped nuclear weapons on during WWII are your friend! They like you and are operating in your best interest.
Click to expand...
Wow is this where we go from discussing this to xenophobic rant? I am locking this thread pending discusion with the mod team.
Cheers
fred
 
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