X1.4: A 24mm MD prototype story.

So I’m not out to set any records, crush any egos, or whatnot. This is more of a because I can thread. This slow build will take awhile as pieces flow in custom order or off the self. Just a random dude with a new L-1 and some engineering student background in a rocket competition. I just want a high performance minimum diameter 24mm rocket. Something to call my own. Why X1.4? Because it’s a prototype not a kit. Initial predictions M1.4 and 6,800 ft on a CTI pro 24-6G G145 pink.

A custom VK nosecone self designed. Contractors are manufacturing it, should be here next week. Can’t go into details. Basically all the off the shelf noses don’t do what I want. I’m picky.

Like this one?
This one is 6.5 to 1 next to a BlackHawk 24mm telemini fits nicely inside with battery.

No. It’s unique not off the shelf. How it’s unique I won’t talk about. Flew two in a university comp custom made. The processes and methods are different from your nosecone. Not trying to act snarky. Just protecting IP.

Propulsion is a go. Got the G145 and a casing in the mail today.

Ordered an x-foil 12” chute, Apogee 24mm flyaway rail guides, a bunch of nomex, and 10 ft. of 300# Kevlar. This rocket is so light weight I think mid power recovery items will work safely.

Just a comparison of the CTI G145 to the H123W I certified on.

https://www.rocketreviews.com/compare-motors---aerotech-h123w-to-cti-140g145-15a.html

I know you've mentioning FARGs, and you've picked nice low mass ( 5g ) ones.... but have you considered a tower? Don't need much length with such a high initial thrust.

Built and designed a scratch tower for a uni launch. That thing was a pain in the arse to lug around, had short 1010 rails, which comprised velocity off rail, and I’d rather use existing launch equipment at an HPR site for hobby.

My 24mm tower is waxed dowels in a bucket of plaster, a penny, some paracord, and large nails

Yeah. Well I bought the egglofter 24mm FARG. Now I’m worried about a torque snapping them. Ugh. That motor has a lot of peak thrust.

Bought

-Telemini V3
-Teledongle
-400 mah lipo x 1
-Charger V2
-2 x 120 mah lipo
-Custom Fins
-Custom Fin Jig
-Arrow Antenna 440-5 and support cables.

Need
-Vx-6R

I've found this carbon plate to be the best for the midpower rockets, That I build it's really stiff,
https://www.cstsales.com/a-carbon-fiber-plates.html

Thanks. Here’s this dragon plate stuff.

https://dragonplate.com/EconomyPlate-Solid-Carbon-Fiber-Sheet-1_16-x-6-x-6

The second option is I supersonic airfoil it.

Airframe tube in customs on US side. That was quick.

I have built rockets with both types of plates Andrew. Just run your sim, With the fins half the thickness and see how much it will increase your altitude. That plate I showed you is stiffer than the dragon plate. I'm just running Ideas at your Andrew

From university rocket team design experience I have an ability to generate supersonic airfoils. We flight tested it once last year. As a US citizen I am not at liberty to discuss or upload the data-points. Due to this forum being viewable by non US internationals the airfoil data won’t be uploaded or further discussed due to its nature.

It is vastly superior to flat plate in drag coefficient and to many civil use sub or transonic airfoils. Regulations exist heavily against sharing US military technologies in trade laws etc.

The airfoil costs more than a normal rocket kit per fin to manufacture. The flat plate is highly economical and I respect your ideas.

Here is a side view profile not showing airfoil curving geometry from the 2017 university team project I was on.

I’m getting more altitude out of the airfoil in a different fin geometry than I am the triangle plate at half thickness. And OR doesn’t know the airfoil cross section profile exactly. Both methods are in excess of 7,500 ft.

University is closed for weekend. X1.4 will be a supersonic airfoil test mule. Project delayed until next week.

Made some progress between classes on X1.4. Fins V1 design and jig are done and ready to manufacture.

Fin Jig.

Parts requested for quote. They may or may not be manufacturable. This is really pushing limits.

Andrew it sure would be nice to have all that to build rockets with. We all need a nice CNC. Ha.
The weave on those fins you showed looks similar to the plate I showed you. I do like the shape of fins you're going with.

I’ll have to try a proprietary modification tomorrow to airfoil for manufacturability reasons. Sorry for being vague. That’s all I can say.

Recovery items came in today.

Version two of fins and fin jig successful attempt to manufacture.

Nosecone and electronics get here tomorrow. Tubing cleared customs but no clue on eta.

Oh Cmon already, the suspense is killing us here!!!!

The university has professors that are proud of what I am attempting and have done so far. At the same time I am trying to graduate with a BSME this semester in my final two classes.

There are certain aspects of this project I simply can not disclose which is the reality. Personally I have a lot of excitement, but I must use judgement and restraint.

Usually prototypes involve a lot of patience. I understand the suspense. The nosecone should be here by end of day.

Nosecone and electronics arrived. Here’s the custom VK nosecone.

Andrew_ASC said:

View attachment 360111 Nosecone and electronics arrived. Here’s the custom VK nosecone.

Click to expand...

Looks like any other VK at this L/D. Is it made out of magical pixie dust? Not seeing anything radical or really different here.

The part I’m not showing is internals which the school suggest I patent. lol.

markkoelsch said:

Looks like any other VK at this L/D. Is it made out of magical pixie dust? Not seeing anything radical or really different here.

Click to expand...

Internal geometry. Not shown.

Nothing new under the sun.

Go buy one then. Because you can’t. And I already had one TRFer want my nosecone designs for free to which I said no.

Andrew_ASC said:

Go buy one then. Because you can’t.

Click to expand...

Not trying to be a jerk here, just chiming in to think statistically for a sec.

Which is more likely:
- you've thought of something within the confines of a tiny cone that noone else has in the last 60 years
- someone else from the accumulated tens of thousands of flights represented on this forum has tried it already
- someone else from the accumulated hundreds of years of engineering represented on this forum has considered and discarded it already

Most likely it appears to you that the first one is true. I submit to you that all three can be true for you because you've just never interacted with the latter pair.

More power to you! Go try things you've just dreamed up! But also maybe try giving humility a shot from time to time.

If you want to see what I’ve done in person at a launch site, that’s fine. I’m not freewaring my hard work in different ideas that haven’t been widely tried before on a forum for nothing.

Andrew_ASC said:

If you want to see what I’ve done in person at a launch site, that’s fine. I’m not freewaring my hard work in different ideas that haven’t been widely tried before on a forum for nothing.

Click to expand...

Andrew, its great you have an idea you think is better than anything before. Stop being mysterious and vague about it, when and if you break the 24mm altitude record we may be impressed. As for the math and science behind the fins nothing new to see here, if you have done your homework they will perform as you expect in YOUR application. Most of us fully understand that fin geometry is a complex thing that needs to be optimized for each project for best performance. As for falling afoul of ITAR, I highly doubt it. Your nose cone may have a special internal configuration tha allows you to put things in a configuration that works for you, thats nice, each of us does that with our rockets. Does your internal config improve performance? If not then theres not much we haven't seen over the years in a VK nosecone.

Nicely put

Andrew, as others have said- it is possible that you thought up something new and useful. It is also possible that you have done something that has been done before. Either way, humility is a great idea.

Then there is you supposed secret fin design. It is an airfoil- great. This too has been done. Your supposed secret airfoil- sure it is. If you are stupid enough to use this, and then post it with pictures you probably do not deserve to ever have a security clearance.

You again are showing your immaturity and arrogance. You are also showing your damned scatter brain posting every random thought that comes to you. Sick of it.

Andrew_ASC said:

If you want to see what I’ve done in person at a launch site, that’s fine. I’m not freewaring my hard work in different ideas that haven’t been widely tried before on a forum for nothing.

Click to expand...

I'm curious if that mean you believe you owe a payment to all the people whose advise you have taken or work you have already read and taken information from to get to the point you are now? I think you're kind of missing the point of a forum, if you wish to take it to a professional level and use this as merely a place to advertise yourself I would think a commercial account would be much more suitable.

My items are not for sale.

I’ll sleep better tonight not posting fully what I know in full detail. You all will sleep better tonight too. This is an international viewed forum with my project spanning into viewable data that is a privilege only in US. None of that US viewable Government airfoil data will be compromised because I am loyal to the US. ITAR or not. Therefore I am not at liberty to discuss airfoil specifics with non US citizens which may be random strangers lurking here without accounts. Keep your snide remarks to yourself. Please. It takes a strong level of maturity to not post certain information.

I think you've made huge strides on presenting yourself and your ideas to this forum.

I hope you continue to work on controlling some of your less-well-considered responses.

( PS: you may find the necessary fin thinness in a bird of this mass doesn't have the dimensional stability to take exotically profiled whatevers )