Build thread: Apogee Flying Machine

Apogee Components recently introduced a new kit, the Flying Machine. It is a large, retro steam punk design that features single or triple cluster propulsion with drop off side boosters. Full description here:

https://www.apogeerockets.com/Rocket-Kits/Skill-Level-4-Model-Rocket-Kits/Flying-Machine

The face card:



The parts:



First step is to assemble the two part fins and tail. Glue the two parts together, using a straight edge to keep the root chord square, over wax paper. Lay another sheet of wax paper on top and weight down with a large book or something similar. BTW instructions don't say to use wax paper and a heavy book, but this is how I do it, after having assembled several kits with two part fins.



If you look closely you will see that after squaring off the root edge the two parts of the fins are not quite the same length. First production run glitch? Anyway some sanding of the curved trailing edge will need to be done to even them up. Will let dry overnight, and continue on next post.

Someone on the Oz forum is just starting something along a similar theme. There is a link there to some really cool steampunk sculptures too:
https://forum.ausrocketry.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=6160

I want to see this! I'm particularly interested in the strap-on boosters.

Continuing the build:

The motor mount was assembled and left to dry.



Then glued into the lower main body tube.



Likewise the bulkhead/coupler was assembled and left to dry.



Then glued halfway into the upper main body tube.



The four main fins, four forward fins, and tail were block sanded on both faces then painted with thinned down CWF and left to dry. They were then sanded down. Repeat as many times as needed for a smooth finish. This must be done now, before the fin patterns and glue rivets go on, as sanding and finishing will be very difficult once that is done.



Cut out the rivet strips from the pattern sheets. There are rivet strips for the fins and tail, hatch covers, fuselage strips, and ornamental scrolled strips. Glue the fin rivet strips to the fins. The circles are where the glue rivets will go. Instructions say to use thinned Rocketpoxy (which Apogee sells of course) or crafter's "puffy glue", whatever that is for the rivets. But the webpage says to use Gorilla glue. So I'll be going out tomorrow for some Gorilla glue. There are literally hundreds of rivets, so it may take a while. I have a life too, you know.



Finally. for now, cut out the vacu-formed plastic canopy and portholes. I found it easiest to use a scissors rather than a hobby knife. Whatever works for you. Sand down the edges if needed, and set aside.



Next post (may be a few days): Glue rivets (ugh)!

Fun to watch. Thanks.

I will be watching this build as I am interested in this kit but not sure if I have the patience required for all the detail work

solid_fuel said:

I will be watching this build as I am interested in this kit but not sure if I have the patience required for all the detail work

Click to expand...

The most tedious and time consuming part is cutting out the rivet strips and gluing the rivets BUT the good news is that it is optional per the Apogee product description page. Just adds to the steampunk look.

kuririn said:

The most tedious and time consuming part is cutting out the rivet strips and gluing the rivets BUT the good news is that it is optional per the Apogee product description page. Just adds to the steampunk look.

Click to expand...

LOL optional, I'm not building it if I'm not doing it correct

Latest Apogee video shows the rivet process. Haven't watched it yet, but it's probably a good one.
[...]
OK, just watched it. I can see that the RocketPoxy worked pretty well. I'd be interested to see it done with Gorilla glue, or perhaps another brand of urethane glue that expands less (Gorilla Glue really foams up, if I recall the last time I used it).

The extremely obvious thing is to practice rivet making before touching any of the fins.

I have to give props to Tim for the creativity in this design. I'm not sure there's been another kit that had the steampunk style baked in like this. Combined with the strap-on boosters the end result should be pretty eye catching on the pad.

neil_w said:

I have to give props to Tim for the creativity in this design. I'm not sure there's been another kit that had the steampunk style baked in like this. Combined with the strap-on boosters the end result should be pretty eye catching on the pad.

Click to expand...

eye catching as well as uncommon flight characteristics with the side mounted boosters. Here's to Tim!

neil_w said:

The extremely obvious thing is to practice rivet making before touching any of the fins.

Click to expand...

Gorilla glue does not work, the reference to it on the Apogee website I think is a typo. Looks like they mixed up two different kit descriptions. I found out what puffy glue is. It's white glue mixed with shaving cream. Add food coloring or paint and it becomes puffy paint. Now where did I put my can of Barbasol?

Did a test a couple of days ago with different glues I had handy to see what might work. Wood glue, Aleene's tacky glue, and Beacon Fabri-Tac shrank when they dried. Liquid epoxy ran, Milliput clay epoxy was too thick and didn't stick to the paper, hot glue and silicone caulk left a tail. Modeling cement didn't run but shrank when it dried. Will try puffy glue next. If worse comes to worse I might have to order RocketPoxy or find an alternative in the local hardware stores. Looks like the instructions are a work in progress, nothing mentioned about painting with CA like in the video.

how about using small rhinestones in lieu of the glue dabs?

they come in 4mm and 2mm at Hobby Lobby - just epoxy in place and paint (if needed).

https://www.hobbylobby.com/Scrapboo...lear-Gemstone-Sticker-Strips---2mm/p/80822898

My build will probably be very slow. Would there be any interest in a second Flying Machine Build thread?

OC-Patrick said:

how about using small rhinestones in lieu of the glue dabs?

they come in 4mm and 2mm at Hobby Lobby - just epoxy in place and paint (if needed).

https://www.hobbylobby.com/Scrapboo...lear-Gemstone-Sticker-Strips---2mm/p/80822898

Click to expand...

I cranked out the numbers. $7.99 for 74 stones would cover one side of one main fin with a few left over. To do the whole rocket would cost more than the rocket itself. I'll check out the local Ben Franklin's ( we don't have a Hobby Lobby in Hawaii) and see what they have. Thanks for the idea.

dk54321 said:

My build will probably be very slow. Would there be any interest in a second Flying Machine Build thread?

Click to expand...

-The more the merrier!

What about this stuff? https://www.amazon.com/Loctite-Clear-Adhesive-60-Fluid-1832982/

No, I've never used it. Might be too stringy, but hard to know until you try it.

Also might be expensive given how much you need, although I'm not sure what the total volume of all the dots is.

This is quite a conundrum; might really be the case that some sort of thick epoxy is the best choice.

neil_w said:

What about this stuff? https://www.amazon.com/Loctite-Clear-Adhesive-60-Fluid-1832982/

No, I've never used it. Might be too stringy, but hard to know until you try it.

Also might be expensive given how much you need, although I'm not sure what the total volume of all the dots is.

This is quite a conundrum; might really be the case that some sort of thick epoxy is the best choice.

Click to expand...

Thanks Neil,
I think I have some two part paste epoxy somewhere in the garage. Will try thinning that out with alcohol like in the video. Meanwhile I found this:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07B7QP1L8/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

That appears to be the easiest solution, short of skipping the rivets entirely. The pattern sizes are approx. 2 and 4 mm. HUNDREDS of 'em. Laters.

kuririn said:

Thanks Neil,
I think I have some two part paste epoxy somewhere in the garage. Will try thinning that out with alcohol like in the video. Meanwhile I found this:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07B7QP1L8/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

That appears to be the easiest solution, short of skipping the rivets entirely. The pattern sizes are approx. 2 and 4 mm. HUNDREDS of 'em. Laters.

Click to expand...

Half-round might stick out a bit more than you're expecting, but that indeed is probably the easiest solution. Now you need to figure out the best glue to attach those things (could be very slick plastic). Also test paint compatibility before gluing 800 of them.

Okay, just out of curiosity I actually counted how many rivets needed to be done on the patterns (no, I'm not OCD). There are 1,236 of 'em! Just the main fins alone are over 500. So I'm taking the easy way out and ordering the flat back half round beads from Amazon. Otherwise this build is going to take forever.

kuririn said:

Okay, just out of curiosity I actually counted how many rivets needed to be done on the patterns (no, I'm not OCD). There are 1,236 of 'em! Just the main fins alone are over 500. So I'm taking the easy way out and ordering the flat back half round beads from Amazon. Otherwise this build is going to take forever.

Click to expand...

Gluing beads as rivets can get tedious as well
Believe me from experience...

les said:

Gluing beads as rivets can get tedious as well
Believe me from experience...
View attachment 357812 View attachment 357813

Click to expand...

Nice Eagle Eye! Did you get the Drake also? If so, same or different motif? Kewl.

I am at the rivet stage in my build. Experimented with a few options. Tim's epoxy method works great, but mixing , dipping, etc is bit more than I hoped for. I am using Tulip brand Puffy paint. It has a pin point applicator tip (4oz bottle) and makes the perfect rivet. I was concerned it might be "spongy" but after 1 coat of silver spray, it's firm and looks good. It's intended for fabric and to be washable so I assume it will hold up.

SkipperChuck said:

I am at the rivet stage in my build. Experimented with a few options. Tim's epoxy method works great, but mixing , dipping, etc is bit more than I hoped for. I am using Tulip brand Puffy paint. It has a pin point applicator tip (4oz bottle) and makes the perfect rivet. I was concerned it might be "spongy" but after 1 coat of silver spray, it's firm and looks good. It's intended for fabric and to be washable so I assume it will hold up.

Click to expand...

Very interesting, definitely feed that back to Apogee, they'll put it on the product page.

P.S. pics or it didn't happen.

SkipperChuck said:

I am at the rivet stage in my build. Experimented with a few options. Tim's epoxy method works great, but mixing , dipping, etc is bit more than I hoped for. I am using Tulip brand Puffy paint. It has a pin point applicator tip (4oz bottle) and makes the perfect rivet. I was concerned it might be "spongy" but after 1 coat of silver spray, it's firm and looks good. It's intended for fabric and to be washable so I assume it will hold up.

Click to expand...

Thanks for that info. I made up a batch of puffy glue yesterday, put it in an epoxy syringe, and did a test on cardstock. After drying it was nicely formed, but spongy like a marshmallow, so I thought it wouldn't work. Didn't think about spray painting it to firm it up. Will give it a go.

OK, I went to Ben Franklin's (craft store) today and asked about puffy paint. The helpful lady there directed me to something called Scribbles 3D fabric paint. She said it was permanent and not spongy when dried. I bought the biggest (and only) size they had: 1 fl. oz. Cost: $1.48.

Got home and tested it on cardstock. It did flatten a bit when dry, but, meh, good enough for me. So instead of several days gluing rivets with epoxy, I'll be doing this in, hopefully, one or two days. So it's on with the build! (Thanks for the tip, Skipper Chuck).

Here's another PITA. The ornamental scrollwork has to be cut out, but because of the small size and sharp curves, a scissors cannot be used. A hobby knife with a very sharp blade was used to cut the inside and outside of the patterns.



The ornamental patterns, hatch covers, and fuselage strips were laid on a plywood board with double stick tape.



And the rivets were applied.



Do the same with the fins. Flip over and do the other side when dry. I'll let these dry and do the other side of the fins tomorrow. See ya in a couple of days.

Looks fantastic. I wish I had the time and patience required for this kind of build.

Great job. More consistent than mine. I found the slight flattening while drying a good thing. Some dots have "Hershey Kiss" syndrome and they tend to flatten themselves during the drying process.

Continuing the build:

I forgot to mention, the paper rivet strip overhangs for the fins and tail should be removed and the fin edges sealed. Instructions don't mention this, but in the construction video Tim applies thin CA to the strips and fin edges and then sands them square when dry. I used a different method I picked up during construction of a cardstock model with papered balsa fins a few months ago. The overhangs are trimmed off with a hobby knife and the edges are sealed with a film of wood glue (except the root edges). Both methods should work, but since wood glue is cheape.., uh, more economical than CA, and since I'm such a cheapsk… , er, very frugal person, I prefer this method. Whatever floats your boat.
Cut out the tube marking guide and mark the lines for the fins, tail, launch lugs and boosters on the body tube. Using an angle tool extend the lines.
Before gluing the fins on, you can fill in the body tube spirals if you wish. I'm not going for museum quality, so I'm skipping that step. Because of the closeness of the rivets to the body tube, wood glue fillets smoothed by a finger is not possible, so I'm going to use thick CA to attach the fins. The four fins are not in a 90 deg. cruciform pattern, but in an X wing pattern ( 60/120/60/120 degrees). The tail is at the top of the X, and the launch lugs are at the bottom.



The body tube is marked for the forward fins, and they are glued in line with the main fins.



All right, it's starting to look like a rocket now. When dry, run CA glue fillets.

Next post: Strap on boosters.

Continuing the build

The strap on booster pods are available as a kit for scratchbuilders or those who want to add on to an existing rocket:

https://www.apogeerockets.com/Rocke...del-Rocket-Kits/Strap-on-Booster-Pods?cpath=&

I have these plus Apogee's oblique nose cones for a future Ariane V scratch/scale build.

https://www.apogeerockets.com/Build...mm-Body-Tubes/VFNC-24-Oblique?cPath=42_47_60&
https://www.stff.co.uk/blogs/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/a5_launch_14may2009_hr.jpg

First, the pod supports are glued to the pods, and filleted when dry.



The motor mounts are assembled, glued and filleted, and left to dry vertically.



Small glitch. When attempting to dry fit the motor mount into the booster pod, it hung up. Turns out the tab that goes into the aft slot on the pod tube is too long (depthwise). This is where a round file or rasp would come in handy. Not having either, I curled some sandpaper around my finger and sanded the tab down until the motor mount could slide in. Surprising that this didn't show up in beta testing. Design wise, easily correctable by moving the tab and slot further up the tube, clear of the motor mount. Will leave a note for Apogee customer service, hopefully it's corrected in future production runs. If you have this kit but haven't built it yet, you can trim down the rear tabs so they don't protrude into the tube. Easy fix.



The mounts are glued into the pods, aft centering ring flush with the pod rear, and left to dry vertically.



The aft pod hooks are glued with CA flush to the rear of the main body tube on the marked booster line.



The mylar streamers are attached to the shock cord. Instructions say to use tape, but I have had many a streamer separate from the rocket by using tape for attachment. So this is how I do it:

First, fold down one corner of the streamer



Fold again forming a triangle



Make a small hole with a rotary punch. I used an ice pick. Attach a small grommet with a grommet tool.



Then tie on to the shock cord. Attach the remaining end to the nose cone. This streamer is not detaching easily.



Assemble the forward pod hook into the pod slot and lock it in with the nose cone. This is for positioning and alignment while gluing. Apply CA to the hook base, slide the support into the channel on the rear hook, and glue to the main tube on the marked line, holding until the CA grabs. Let dry.



And pod assembly is complete. The pod hooks and slotted nose cone make this an ingenious design. And yet it is easy and simple to assemble.

Next post: Finishing the assembly

Continuing the build

The 24" plastic parachute was assembled, attached to a swivel, and hooked onto the screw eye on the bulkhead. Because the separation point is mid rocket, the upper portion is longer than the shroud lines so no concerns about it weaving in and out and getting tangled. The shock cord is an 8' length of 300# Kevlar cord. Depending on your philosophy, you may want to modify this setup. I built it stock, don't want to open up that can of worms.

The nose cone has two ridge lines. These are cut lines for converting the nose cone into a boat tail (tail cone). The higher line is for a 24mm motor tube, and the lower line is for a 29mm tube. You can trim and sand these flush, but I'm going to incorporate these into the finish later on with a colored band. Yeah, I know, easy way out.



There is a very thin balsa sheet. Instructions say to cut 36 pieces, 4" x 3/16" from this sheet and glue it to the front of the lower body tube, then stain the pieces. Decided to stain the sheet instead of fiddling with 36 individual pieces on the rocket and messing up the tube.

Comparison of stained pieces and unstained sheet. There is a lot of leeway here, you can go as light or dark as you want. I went with something called Golden Oak, from an old can I had rusting in the garage.



I started cutting the pieces and gluing them to the tube. Then it dawned on me, why am I cutting these pieces only to glue them back together again? So I glued the sheet to the tube instead, holding it in place with rubber bands.



Two sheets and some filler strips and it's done. Glued two rivet strips on the top and bottom. Saved a lot of tedious and unnecessary work.



The ornamental scroll patterns,



canopy and portholes,



hatches and rivet strips



were glued to the main body and booster pods



And assembly is complete!



I'll probably coat the stained wood with some Flecto Varathane satin from an old can left over from a furniture refinishing job I did years ago. Need to test it on the scrap stained pieces first.

Next post: Priming, painting, and wrap up.