Giant Leap Rocketrys new Mariah 38 kit review

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cmcain said:
for all the people out there complaining about my lack of build photos i have one question for you, how am i supposed to take pictures when my camera is broke and my wife LEFT ME and took the other camera with her? everybodys so concerned about secrets that they dont think hey maybe the guy who wrote the review is doing the best he can with what he doesnt have left in his life, im sorry people but i have no way at all to take and post pictures right now, i dont even have a cell phone anymore
Click to expand...

I was not responding to your comment - no worries there!
 
My comments about the pictures were more based on a statement made by StoneCold over on RP.

So, at this point I will not be able to share any pictures of the "device" & hope that no one else will until they have the permission from Kent or Ed to do so.
If you want detailed pictures & assembly instructions please buy the kit!
Click to expand...

I understand you don't have a camera. Sorry if I came across as accusing you. :)
 
I do not think they would mind i you post a build thread. Although, i do belief they will mind if you post the instructions and measurements of all the parts.
 
DAllen said:
Good grief...do you really think GL is going to enforce copyright bs on a build thread? Really? Even a negative thread? That would be a PR nightmare for them. They're just trying to protect it from copycat manufacturers.

Gimmie a break...

:eyeroll:

-Dave
Click to expand...

AMEN Brother!!

No they don't want copycat manufacturers.

I copy & pasted verbatim the bottom of the Mariah page.
I do have the complete RockSim file & assembly pictures.
I Have been asked not to post them just yet.
I will honor their request.

IMHO the Mariah is the most innovative, elegant, sleek, high performance kit on the market under $100.00!

P.S.
I am StoneCold.:D
 
Rocketman248 said:
I was being mildly facetious when I said no build threads, but I still don't understand all the secrecy. Not posting pictures in this thread isn't really going to stop the so called copycats from finding out how it all works. All it's really doing is turning away potential customers.

I was ready to buy one when I first read the announcement, and saw the video, but after this thread, I'm saving my money for something else.
Click to expand...

Sorry you feel that way:confused:
I guess you will just miss out!
 
This does all feel hokey, I will follow up Nick on that one.

I too, am holding off. If there is one thing that I have always loved about this hobby as compared to others is that if someone innovates, they share that idea with others free of cost. I understand that this is being marketed by Giant Leap, but I get the "Super Top Secret, you must buy to get this technology" type of feel from this whole ordeal.

From what I have seen, this seems like a reversed tube-within-a-tube method that everyone has employed out of a single tube in the past. Look at delta22's "Hell Boy" thread for a comparable design, albeit in a larger tube.

The "Bread Box" type altimeter mounting is a novel idea, but I don't know how I would feel about mounting my altimeter to piece of foam, as mentioned earlier.

All of this trademark and copyright talk is slightly intimidating to me. It remains to be seen if anyone would want to copy this design.
 
patelldp said:
All of this trademark and copyright talk is slightly intimidating to me. It remains to be seen if anyone would want to copy this design.
Click to expand...

It's already been done. It's essentially the same thing as Adrian's rockets. It's a good, proven design. That's what's bothering me about this. It's nothing new, why the secrecy? :confused:
 
marsman2020 said:
Trademarks protect a phrase or image being used to represent a product. If the indicated trademarks are actually registered (a search on the USPTO site finds nothing, so I am doubtful) it only means that others cannot represent their products using the same terms. Selling another kit with a "Shotgun Recovery System" would be a violation. Posting pictures to review the kit would not be a violation of trademark.

Copyright protects creative works. The documentation for the kit would be protected from reproduction by copyright. So would the photos on the Giant Leap site, *maybe* the paint scheme shown on the site, and *maybe* the specific outer configuration of the physical body of the rocket. Posting pictures of a product for the purposes of review of the product would be considered fair use and not a violation of copyright. Posting scans of the documentation would be a violation.

Patents protect inventions. As part of the process for applying for a patent, the unique aspects of the invention must be disclosed such that the invention can be reproduced by someone familiar with the field. Also, the invention cannot be disclosed to the public prior to application for the patent. Even if an invention is patented, posting pictures of it is not a violation of the patent - producing a product using the invention as claimed in the patent and selling it would be a violation.

Unless Giant Leap has already filed for a patent on the unique aspects of this kit, by making it available to the public for sale they have given up any right they have to the items in question. And they have no right to keep people from posting pictures of their builds, or information on how the kit actually works, even if a patent was filed. They could only go after people violating the patent.

As for the SPECIFIC pages of documentation included in the kit....I think a friendly reminder that that documentation took a lot of work to create and belongs to them and please don't post it online (but your own build threads are fine) would be perfectly sufficient. Not some bullshit disclaimer that confuses trademarks/patents/copyrights and overstates the protections offered by law.

So, I won't be buying this kit, and I'll be watching the threads here and on RP closely to see if I want to do business at all with Giant Leap in the future.
Click to expand...

You are absolutely correct!

Why would that alter your decision to buy a kit from Giant Leap?

I just wanted everyone to know that hundreds of hours went into the design & manual.

I copy & pasted from the bottom of the Mariah kit page.
(violation)?

They asked me not to publish any "detailed photos/measurements" of the shotgun tube.

Kent & Ed are good friends of mine, They were gracious enough to send me the kit 2+ weeks prior to the release.
I also gave them suggestions on how to "improve" & "simplify" the design of the Shotgun tube.

Which, I hear are going to be incorporated into the 54 & 76mm versions.


I will honor their request!:handshake:
Wouldn't you?
 
Rocketman248 said:
It's already been done. It's essentially the same thing as Adrian's rockets. It's a good, proven design. That's what's bothering me about this. It's nothing new, why the secrecy? :confused:
Click to expand...

As far as an offering from a vendor, I guess that constitutes innovation. They are able to take a design from whatever source and turn it into a marketable product, props to them.

Looking at Giant Leap's product offering, which over the past 10 or so years I have purchased from A LOT, they have many more innovative offerings. For example, The HardPoint anchor is innovative, even if it is very similar to something Aerotech includes in all of their kits.

The Fireball zipper stopper is very innovative, as well. I had seen this used many years ago at CTRA, but it was just a wad of dish towels, not a Nerf Ball wrapped in Kevlar. It's an improvement off of a common idea, and it's worth money to people. That is market innovation.

I am all for this Mariah kit coming out. But I would save the "most innovative offering" for the first person that comes out with something like an altimeter sled that is able to accommodate any make or model of altimeter without the need to drill holes. Or possibly an altimeter, GPS, radio tracking transmitter all in one altimeter that is the size of the old RRC2.

It all depends on what you want and if you have the money to buy it. My guess is a lot of people will buy this kit. I also have a feeling a lot of people will get it and say "well this is cool, but there is still some room for improvement," as with any design.
 
Okay..Sounds like a good stance in my book..So, if we could concentrate the discussion to the rocket..,<hint,hint>..It is a fine looking design and is on my list of 'to gets'...
 
patelldp said:
As far as an offering from a vendor, I guess that constitutes innovation. They are able to take a design from whatever source and turn it into a marketable product, props to them.

Looking at Giant Leap's product offering, which over the past 10 or so years I have purchased from A LOT, they have many more innovative offerings. For example, The HardPoint anchor is innovative, even if it is very similar to something Aerotech includes in all of their kits.

The Fireball zipper stopper is very innovative, as well. I had seen this used many years ago at CTRA, but it was just a wad of dish towels, not a Nerf Ball wrapped in Kevlar. It's an improvement off of a common idea, and it's worth money to people. That is market innovation.

I am all for this Mariah kit coming out. But I would save the "most innovative offering" for the first person that comes out with something like an altimeter sled that is able to accommodate any make or model of altimeter without the need to drill holes. Or possibly an altimeter, GPS, radio tracking transmitter all in one altimeter that is the size of the old RRC2.

It all depends on what you want and if you have the money to buy it. My guess is a lot of people will buy this kit. I also have a feeling a lot of people will get it and say "well this is cool, but there is still some room for improvement," as with any design.
Click to expand...

Thank You!:handshake:
 
TRA3180 said:
Thank You!:handshake:
Click to expand...

Maybe they can apply my idea of an altimeter sled that will accept any altimeter that will fit within the Shotgun deployment tube. That seems like the main weakness to the design based on my lack of experience with the kit.
 
patelldp said:
Maybe they can apply my idea of an altimeter sled that will accept any altimeter that will fit within the Shotgun deployment tube. That seems like the main weakness to the design based on my lack of experience with the kit.
Click to expand...

Good Idea!
 
Rocketman248 said:
It's already been done. It's essentially the same thing as Adrian's rockets. It's a good, proven design. That's what's bothering me about this. It's nothing new, why the secrecy? :confused:
Click to expand...

Yep. It's nearly identical to Adrian's deployment system, except that from what I can tell, it looks like it might be backwards compared to the system Adrian uses.
 
Pantherjon said:
Okay..Sounds like a good stance in my book..So, if we could concentrate the discussion to the rocket..,<hint,hint>..It is a fine looking design and is on my list of 'to gets'...
Click to expand...

It is a Beautiful rocket! That belongs in everybody's arsenal.
Although complex in assembly, If you follow every step in the very detailed manual, It's not that hard!
The manual is very well laid out with instructions & pictures of every detail.

Kent told me that the manual was the hardest thing to accomplish in the entire kit.

Sleek & Slender!
Looks like it's exceeding MACH 2 setting on the pad!

For $79.95 I can't think of anybody that would be disappointed with the Mariah!
I'm NOT!
 
but in the 38mm version, incorporating a sled into their bread box opening would mean installation would require removing either the fore or aft closure to the E-bay? i want one, but i don't have enough cash :(
 
yes a sled would be great in the mariah but trust me there isnt that much room, with a perfectflite hialt45k you have enough room for the altimeter, batt e-match wires and if your creative and have a small transmitter your tracker will fit. alittle bit of time and you can make a clip to attach your transmitter in the top of the breadbox and itll work fine. its a small rocket and a tight fit but when you want speed and altitude you have to sacrifice something somewhere and with this kit space is at a premium!
 
hmm, a simple rocksim (just with rounded weights and such, so one can get an idea of projected altitudes with different motors would be cool, also, i noticed the leading edge on the fins are rounded, is that the best design, or would trapazoidal be better?
 
Sharp leading and trailing edges would be better at supersonic speed, yes.
 
yes there is probably a better fin out there for transonic speeds but whats the point of this kit? to bring out a new deployment method to the market and to introduce something different. i dont know if im alone but has anybody else noticed how most high power kits all look the same? dimensions and angles might be different but the current offering of kits has gotten pretty stale. honestly home many kits do you need where they all look similar to one another
 
cmcain said:
yes there is probably a better fin out there for transonic speeds but whats the point of this kit? to bring out a new deployment method to the market and to introduce something different. i dont know if im alone but has anybody else noticed how most high power kits all look the same? dimensions and angles might be different but the current offering of kits has gotten pretty stale. honestly home many kits do you need where they all look similar to one another
Click to expand...

but they're different sames :p

the mariah does look amazing though, and if the leading edges are cut like von karmann then it seems like they'd be better than a flat leading edge, idk, im not too good with all the technical stuff lol.
 
edwinshap1 said:
but they're different sames :p

the mariah does look amazing though, and if the leading edges are cut like von karmann then it seems like they'd be better than a flat leading edge, idk, im not too good with all the technical stuff lol.
Click to expand...

VK leading edges would be best, yes, but VK leading edges would be sharply pointed at the front. If they're rounded, they aren't VK.
 
cjl said:
VK leading edges would be best, yes, but VK leading edges would be sharply pointed at the front. If they're rounded, they aren't VK.
Click to expand...

this leading edge could be created (closely) with a router bit. you would have to be very clever at making a jig that would be very precise...
 
ClayD said:
this leading edge could be created (closely) with a router bit. you would have to be very clever at making a jig that would be very precise...
Click to expand...

hmm, a laser cutter could probably do it pretty easily :) now just to find one of those :D
 
i sanded my fins by hand, that seems to be the easiest way that i have found to sand .062 g10 if your careful they come out awesome
 
edwinshap1 said:
hmm, a simple rocksim (just with rounded weights and such, so one can get an idea of projected altitudes with different motors would be cool, also, i noticed the leading edge on the fins are rounded, is that the best design, or would trapazoidal be better?
Click to expand...

Well here it is!:wink:

Magnaframe Mass = 15 oz.

Dynawind Mass = 17 oz.

Change in Mass override

View attachment GLR_Mariah 38.zip
 
cjl said:
Yep. It's nearly identical to Adrian's deployment system, except that from what I can tell, it looks like it might be backwards compared to the system Adrian uses.
Click to expand...

After Mile High Mayhem last year and the high 38mm flights I had there (17kft+ for an I216 and 22kft+ on a J530), I got a call from Kent and we talked about my deployment design, and his plans for the Mariah kit. I explained the deployment system I used and Kent liked it, but I warned them that I didn't have any suggestions about how to turn it into a kit, since what I did required a bunch of time-consuming fiberglass work. We discussed several other aspects of the Mariah kit over the course of a few months, and then I stopped hearing from them. I'm guessing that that's when they came up with a variation that would be easier for them to manufacture and for the users to put together. I don't know any details though, so I'm curious as to exactly what they came up with and how it differs from what I use.
 

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