ThrustCurve.org future directions

The current iteration of ThrustCurve.org was launched in 2008 and is showing its age. In particular, it's getting increasingly hard to host Java/JSP apps (my current hosting provider has gotten flaky). I'm trying to figure out what I should do with it. Most likely this will mean either nursing it along in its current implementation or re-implementing it in more modern technologies that will be easier to maintain and host.

In order to figure out what things people actually use and care about, I've decided to start a poll. Please indicate which features of ThrustCurve.org you use and would miss if they were gone. (Or choose the last option if you don't use it directly because all the features you need are already present in your simulator.)

John,
The tool is invaluable. I appreciate the effort you put into making it available.

Use it more & more these days, especially the phone app.

+1 on the App

TC is a valuable resource that I recommend to many. I use it as a comparative check with RockSim and produce motor use tables for all my rockets with all the data found there. I also have a link to it on my phone to be used at the launch site.

I use thrustcurve.org a lot but only for simple searches by motor name.

Really, it has gotten hard to host Java/JSP apps? 2008 was the year I retired (at age 51) and Java web development is what I did for a long time. Hard to believe that it is becoming obsolete already.

Use the app exclusively to compare altitude and delay times with OR and another app I use (Rocket Calculator). Thank you for the work you have done with Thrust Curve and the rest of the resources on your website.

I use the complex search when shopping for motors.
I use the simple search when looking up stats for a particular motor.
If I am selecting motors for a particular rocket, setting delays, or estimating performance, I use Open Rocket.

My vote is a standalone complete phone app .. side load for ease of release.

Kenny

Good grief I use the site CONSTANTLY. Did not realize there was an app for it. (Installs App on iPhone)

That app will be super-duper handy at launches when I am looking to buy motors. But yeah, I absolutely love the site as it is right now. Sure wish I could offer some help but I know next to nothing about how to manage data like that.

John,

Can't tell you how much I use the web site. Further, everyone who uses OpenRocket indirectly benefits from it!

My personal use is equally name search and complex search. I recently discovered the motor browser functionality.

But the biggest item on my list is, download entire contents for embedding in OpenRocket!

Kevin

I really like the Motor Guide, handiest way I know of to sim "all" motors, at least in OR adding each motor to sim it is a real chore, perhaps the other sim apps make it easier). With the TC app I hardly ever use the website anymore (I'm more likely to just google "J380 motor", which usually takes me to the thrustcurve page as the first hit), I do agree that I wish the app cached the data locally so that it could work in places like Black Rock.

Realizing this was asking about what is currently used and not a wish-list, I'll continue with a wish-list. If you have to make any conversions/updates just things to think about (these are all for the app, may apply to the website as well)... (1) I'd like to be able to indicate the cases I own and what adapters I have (both RAS and sizing adapters), and further refine the Motor Guide to the motors I can fly, including ideally taking into account the extra weight of sizing adapters and oversized cases and spacers, perhaps even the threaded rods required to use those in a rocket with an MD retainer. Right now I have my rockets defined multiple times, once with a 54mm MMT and once with a 38mm MMT and the extra weight of the A3854 adapter for example, it works but its less convenient then letting a computer do that work for me. (2) Similar would be dealing with a rocket that isn't rigged for electronic eject, so ruling out plugged motors in that case for example, perhaps flagging motors where motor-eject is questionable (I've heard that some high-thrust motors have a tendency to blow-out their delay grains or something?), and ruling out a motor if it's optimum delay is longer than the delay you can get for it (ideally flagging AT motors where the -L RDK is required to work). (3) Multi-selection for motor type (everything but hybrid for example) and manufacturers (my vendor carries AT and CTI but not others, so I'd like to include both in the Motor Guide but right now I either have to run each one separately or run "any" and then I get motors I don't care about/can't fly in CA, plus there are some confusing ones like reloads I buy as CTI but show up in the app as AMW), this one might be taken care of by #1 (where "any" means "any manufacturer that works with the cases I own", or that don't require cases like DMS). (4) Raising the Motor Guide results limit above 100 (maybe 200?) so the list doesn't get truncated (I don't even know what motors are being left-out in a case like what I get where I'm told 132 of 142 motors worked, but I'm only being shown the "first" 100, I might be more interested in the "last" 100 results so I'd really rather just see them all). (5) Being able to sort the columns in the Motor Guide results. (6) Being able to set min/max limits on altitude (for targets & waivers) and velocity (don't want to break mach, DO want to break mach, etc) when running the Motor Guide. And finally (7) a basic optimizer that would indicate the maximum altitude for a motor, whether weight should be added to the rocket or if it's already too heavy to achieve the max altitude (and how much it's off by).

But don't get me wrong, I love what's already there, I just think it could be so much better. Thanks!

All I ever use is the simple search. I do not doubt I could get a bunch more use out of the rest of the functionality, I simply have not explored yet.

Oh, one tidbit I would love would be to render the RSE files into a basic graph on the motor display page. I thought I used to see that for some motors but I could be mistaken. That would be awesome for all motors!

I really like and appreciate all your work on this and your website.
Thank you for your efforts on the hobby's behalf!
Some versions of the additions Will suggests would be great.
Like the ideas of multiple select search by case sizes and diameter and multiple manufacturers (AT, CTI ,Loki) and also single use, reloads.
Altitude targets and column sorting are bonuses.
I for one would be glad to donate monetarily to the cause.
Again thank you!

TC is my all time favorite for tailoring my motor choices to suit field conditions, my ability to see the rocket in the sky, the desired acceleration off the pad, and optimal delays.

Before the TC app, I used to print out pages for each of my birds that I carried in binder to field so I would know which motors to buy for a particular set of conditions.

I've never tried the motor search or the motor browser until I saw your poll and I wondered what they were. I use the motor guide all the time to pick a motor (usually based on altitude) and then to set the delay. I normally use it on my Ipad in a browser. If the app works on an Ipad I will give that a try. If the motor guide ever goes away I'd really miss it. I do wish I could select exact mmt diameter or mmt diameter and less. I end up creating two files for each rocket, i.e. V2-38 and V2-54. On the Motor Mfr. filter, it is either all or pick one. I wish that menu was radio buttons where I could turn on more than one to match the hardware I own. Anyway, its a great tool and thank you for putting it out there.

I would pay for a Thrustcurve app on the iPhone. Saying that, I'd hate to see the database search function disconnected from Rocksim. For my use profile it has to have both. I don't remember what I paid for the Rocket Calculator app on my iPhone, but it has been worth every penny. I don't doubt that a Thrustcurve offering would provide that same benefit/value.

I am always searching out motor data from the site. My copy of RockSim is very old. Too many old motor files, none of the new files. This is my go to source for motor data and motor selection on builds. Please keep it running in some form.

I have thirty six rockets saved on Thrust Curve, couldn't do a launch without it. I get frantic when it's down. I print out the Motor Guide for most of my rockets and put it in my log book. Great reference when you are at a launch. I didn't know there was an app for my phone....:blush:

I use it as a reference for motor files only. I don't save rockets or anything like that. I reallly like the thrustcurve tracer tool.

Thanks for all the kind responses, it's gratifying to know that the site is appreciated.

Thanks Will for the suggestions. I will keep them in mind if I have to re-implement the motor guide.

Kevin, I'd still like to see these functions in the simulators themselves, or at least some sort of tighter integration. (I feel slightly guilting implementing even a trivial flight sim when the full simulators have so much better ones.)

dixontj93060, you don't have to pay, there's already an app for free: iPhone and Android.

Just to be clear, a new site would be responsive (of course), so the web site itself could be used on desktops, laptops and phones. When I hear "app", I assume smart phone app, with the primary value being the ability to store results locally when lacking Internet access.

Speaking of a re-design, I'm groping for a new metaphor that would be more functional. Clearly the site has a features that aren't easy to find or natural to use.

John- As 90% of my stuff is scratch built or modded kits, I don't hesitate to say I live on Thrust Curve. I can't express my appreciation enough for all the time and energy that has to have been put into this. As a go-to, I print out a variety of options so I have a range to chose from depending on field and wind conditions. Most all my motor purchases have been driven by choices made in TrustCurve. I have no suggestions for improvement other than those listed above and if the program were ever retired, I am afraid I would have to do the same. An invaluable tool-thanks again!

Oh, forgot a feature that would be nice.

I use the motor guide tool and filter for a brand or change the length of the mmt to match my hardware..but would really like to see an additional filter or limiter that either culls by 'currently produced' or 'currently certified' motors .

Kenny

John, will give it some thought and get back to you.

I formerly used the very simple Mark Sullivan's flight simulator because it was good enough for an quick look estimate of altitude. I liked it because it only required a diameter, weight, estimated Cd and thrust curve to make it run, and if the motor you wanted was not in the database, you could make a custom motor by simply putting in the average thrust and the burn time and get a reasonable estimate of performance. It also allowed for clusters and multi-stages as well.

Since that website disappeared I've used ThrustCurve as my goto quick look simulator. TC has improved greatly over the years because of your efforts and Mark's keeping the database current. I think it works great. My suggestion for increasing capabilities would be to add clusters and staging to the simulator, and to allow a user input for the starting cd.

The hobby rocketry community really owes you a big thank you for your decades of valuable contributions to the hobby. :wave:


Bob

I just thought of one enhancement I would like to see.

Even though I set Thustcurve's online display to English units (FPS, LBM, etc.), the CSV motor files that I download are populated with Metric values. It would save quite a bit of time if the data values in the CSV files would reflect the units selected in the user Display Preferences.

I use it all the time for visual thrust curve, length, weight etc when I'm mindsiming

I use browse, search, and Motor Guide, as well as a source of engine data files.

While I use Rocsim & SmartLaunch, the motor guide is still very handy to narrow down motor choices, so the ability to save rockets is nice. Haven't used the results download yet...

Wish there was a simple way to update rocksim with the latest engine data, but maybe that's more of a rocksim issue.

In any case, thanks for the site!

dpower said:

I use browse, search, and Motor Guide, as well as a source of engine data files... Wish there was a simple way to update rocksim with the latest engine data, but maybe that's more of a rocksim issue.

Click to expand...

I do the same - update RockSim. I've got links on my computer's desktop to the RSE data folders and now can quickly open the new file with Wordpad and copy & paste the new motor data into the base RSE file.

I've also spent the time to sort the Cesaroni RSE file by motor impulse class and then by avg thrust.

My thought is that the following information may be handy
Nozzle exit diameter - this is used in RASAero
Motor CG - I'm not entirely how much this varies from the midpoint which I would think is what the sims all assume
Weight after burn
Case
Link to manufactures page