Input on 10,000ft+ flights at URRG Potter field

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For a short flight yes, but for a sustained flight a Mach, they will melt.
 
I've seen pictures of the results of flying at mach 2+ for 20 seconds and the paint is cooked right off the airframe. Stickers? they're history. Leading edge of fins take a beating and if laminated may start to delaminate. That's why some folks use metal fins. Plastic nosecone wouldn't survive. Brief foray like Chuck says might be O.K. but there's a reason for the metal tip on some of the newer nosecones. Besides, one needs to have a launchsite with a higher waiver to deal with
the expected altitude. That's doable out west where some of you lucky ducks live but us flatlanders may be stuck with 15k or below. Kurt
 
ksaves2 said:
I've seen pictures of the results of flying at mach 2+ for 20 seconds and the paint is cooked right off the airframe. Stickers? they're history. Leading edge of fins take a beating and if laminated may start to delaminate. That's why some folks use metal fins. Plastic nosecone wouldn't survive. Brief foray like Chuck says might be O.K. but there's a reason for the metal tip on some of the newer nosecones. Besides, one needs to have a launchsite with a higher waiver to deal with
the expected altitude. That's doable out west where some of you lucky ducks live but us flatlanders may be stuck with 15k or below. Kurt
Click to expand...


Thanks. This is for my Aurora 38mm md rocket that will fly on a loki J1000 at LDRS. It won't be going mach for long at all. I ordered a 6:1 conical fiberglass cone today from Performance so problem solved :)


Thanks Everyone
 
conman13 said:
Thanks. This is for my Aurora 38mm md rocket that will fly on a loki J1000 at LDRS. It won't be going mach for long at all. I ordered a 6:1 conical fiberglass cone today from Performance so problem solved :)


Thanks Everyone
Click to expand...

That should work Connor. What's you doing for a tracker or is it easy to find stuff out there due to the "barren" nature of the landscape? Kurt
 
ksaves2 said:
That should work Connor. What's you doing for a tracker or is it easy to find stuff out there due to the "barren" nature of the landscape? Kurt
Click to expand...

I just purchased a Telemetrum to use in it for deployment and tracking. Now to get my Ham license :)
 
ksaves2 said:
That should work Connor. What's you doing for a tracker or is it easy to find stuff out there due to the "barren" nature of the landscape? Kurt
Click to expand...

Isn't LDRS in New York in summer? Not a barren landscape. Tracker advisable.
 
Last edited:
Buckeye said:
Isn't LDRS in New York in summer? Not a barren landscape. Tracker advisable.
Click to expand...

Yes its in Rochester NY. URRG is the host. They have quite a large area with surrounding farms but a tracker is still needed for the altitude I'm getting.
 
conman13 said:
Yes its in Rochester NY. URRG is the host. They have quite a large area with surrounding farms but a tracker is still needed for the altitude I'm getting.
Click to expand...
Actually LDRS 34 is at Torrey Farms in Potter, NY, 40 miles SE of Rochester. This is an 8,000 acre (12.5 square mile) farm surrounded by forest. While the crops should not be high at the end of June, but time you launch on a farm, trackers are recommended, because all sight line look similar, and at Potter, you will be driving several miles to recover a rocket from a high flight.

Bob
 
bobkrech said:
Actually LDRS 34 is at Torrey Farms in Potter, NY, 40 miles SE of Rochester. This is an 8,000 acre (12.5 square mile) farm surrounded by forest. While the crops should not be high at the end of June, but time you launch on a farm, trackers are recommended, because all sight line look similar, and at Potter, you will be driving several miles to recover a rocket from a high flight.

Bob
Click to expand...

Yes sorry. I was at URRF 2 last year..... Hopefully the crop doesn't fail this year :p
 
bobkrech said:
Actually LDRS 34 is at Torrey Farms in Potter, NY, 40 miles SE of Rochester. This is an 8,000 acre (12.5 square mile) farm surrounded by forest. While the crops should not be high at the end of June, but time you launch on a farm, trackers are recommended, because all sight line look similar, and at Potter, you will be driving several miles to recover a rocket from a high flight.

Bob
Click to expand...

lets hope they don't have to drive several miles .... 1 or 2 okay... but i doubt they have an 11 mile radius like blackrock to justify really high altitude and several miles for recovery. needs to stay in the waiver cylinder.
 
ClayD said:
lets hope they don't have to drive several miles .... 1 or 2 okay... but i doubt they have an 11 mile radius like blackrock to justify really high altitude and several miles for recovery. needs to stay in the waiver cylinder.
Click to expand...

Exactly I dont plan on driving too far for recovery at all. It is a 38mm md that will be dropping from 16000 using a cable cutter and a main 18'' thin mill chute at 500ish ft. I have talked to a bunch of people who have flown 38d and they have all said they've recovered them less then a mile away. I will be launching early in the morning allowing time to find it and because winds will be calmest.
 
ClayD said:
lets hope they don't have to drive several miles .... 1 or 2 okay... but i doubt they have an 11 mile radius like blackrock to justify really high altitude and several miles for recovery. needs to stay in the waiver cylinder.
Click to expand...
Actually we have a standing waiver to 15 kft with call-ins to 24 kft. Unlike Blackrock, Torrey Farms is a large working farm with crops, irrigation ditches and roads so you can't simply drive in a straight line to your LZ like you can at Blackrock. You can land in a field less than a mile away from the pads, but if there's a couple irrigation ditches between you and the LZ, with roads and bridges up to a mile apart you may have to drive 3 or 4 miles to get to the spot where your rocket landed.

The farm is an ancient lakebed located in a valley basin shielded at ground level from the prevailing wind by the rolling hills. If you apogee at 15 kft, and the winds aloft are only 10 mph, you will drift 3 miles if your main accidently comes out at apogee. This happens more than it should, and depending on the wind direction, there's a pretty good chance that your LZ will be in the woods around the farm and you won't see where the rocket landed. That's the main reason why I believe it's important to have a tracker.

Bob
 
bobkrech said:
Actually we have a standing waiver to 15 kft with call-ins to 24 kft. Unlike Blackrock, Torrey Farms is a large working farm with crops, irrigation ditches and roads so you can't simply drive in a straight line to your LZ like you can at Blackrock. You can land in a field less than a mile away from the pads, but if there's a couple irrigation ditches between you and the LZ, with roads and bridges up to a mile apart you may have to drive 3 or 4 miles to get to the spot where your rocket landed.

The farm is an ancient lakebed located in a valley basin shielded at ground level from the prevailing wind by the rolling hills. If you apogee at 15 kft, and the winds aloft are only 10 mph, you will drift 3 miles if your main accidently comes out at apogee. This happens more than it should, and depending on the wind direction, there's a pretty good chance that your LZ will be in the woods around the farm and you won't see where the rocket landed. That's the main reason why I believe it's important to have a tracker.

Bob
Click to expand...

I only flew there for LDRS 28. I completely agree. Use a tracker if you are going to get any altitude. Not only will it help if you get off into the woods, but when you're looking at several hundred acres of 3 ft high plants and the rocket falls between them, it will take a lot of people or a lot of time to find a rocket in that! It's not like a dry lake bed, you can drop onto the farm and not see the rocket until you're less then 50' away! A lot like most right coast launch sites.
 
blackbrandt said:
Are audible beacons recommended?
Click to expand...

Yes. Either alone or better with tracking electronics.

Why? Because if you land in a ditch or the electronic tracker fails, you have a backup.

Potter is a great and large field, however folks tend to push to their rockets to max at LDRS and those extreme rockets are the ones most likely to get lost. Having 1 or more independent tracking/locating systems is a relatively cheap method to enhance the probability of a successful recovery.

Bob
 
bobkrech said:
The farm is an ancient lakebed located in a valley basin shielded at ground level from the prevailing wind by the rolling hills. If you apogee at 15 kft, and the winds aloft are only 10 mph, you will drift 3 miles if your main accidently comes out at apogee. This happens more than it should, and depending on the wind direction, there's a pretty good chance that your LZ will be in the woods around the farm and you won't see where the rocket landed. That's the main reason why I believe it's important to have a tracker.

Bob
Click to expand...

AND due to the field being the bottom of the "bowl" surrounded by these foothills....it can easily become a tracking nightmare!
With all the metal silos , sheds, barns located on the sides of these hills, there is a tremendous amount of interference. I know way too many flier's who have lost rockets, using both GPS and RF tracking. Depending on where you land, signal can be lost, totally false or more than 180 degrees off. You need some serious experience in locating, to find them.

I have personally been out on hunts for myself [and others 6 times now] lasting from 3 -8 hours to find a rocket. We have gone to spots where GPS said it was, but when we got there it would re-plot to somewhere else...several times & no rocket!
I have no explanation for false GPS readings but that doesn't change the fact that 3 times I personally could not locate them or they weren't where they were supposed to be.

I think it would be HIGHLY advisable to do a test flight there, with a much smaller motor [5-6000 ft] to test your "locating" skills before risking the entire project. The test would reveal any flaws to your recovery set-up & what kind of drift you are in for.

Good luck, and please understand I'm not down on your attempt. I wish you success, but part of that is knowing what you are up against! You got some money wrapped up in those electronics and a test flight will increase your chance of getting your money back 10 fold at this field!
 
blackjack2564 said:
AND due to the field being the bottom of the "bowl" surrounded by these foothills....it can easily become a tracking nightmare!
With all the metal silos , sheds, barns located on the sides of these hills, there is a tremendous amount of interference. I know way too many flier's who have lost rockets, using both GPS and RF tracking. Depending on where you land, signal can be lost, totally false or more than 180 degrees off. You need some serious experience in locating, to find them.

I have personally been out on hunts for myself [and others 6 times now] lasting from 3 -8 hours to find a rocket. We have gone to spots where GPS said it was, but when we got there it would re-plot to somewhere else...several times & no rocket!
I have no explanation for false GPS readings but that doesn't change the fact that 3 times I personally could not locate them or they weren't where they were supposed to be.

I think it would be HIGHLY advisable to do a test flight there, with a much smaller motor [5-6000 ft] to test your "locating" skills before risking the entire project. The test would reveal any flaws to your recovery set-up & what kind of drift you are in for.

Good luck, and please understand I'm not down on your attempt. I wish you success, but part of that is knowing what you are up against! You got some money wrapped up in those electronics and a test flight will increase your chance of getting your money back 10 fold at this field!
Click to expand...


yes. I will have many other 38mm rockets i will be using as "test" flights as well as all of my other flights I'm trying to incorporate the tracker in to practice.
 
blackjack2564 said:
AND due to the field being the bottom of the "bowl" surrounded by these foothills....it can easily become a tracking nightmare!
With all the metal silos , sheds, barns located on the sides of these hills, there is a tremendous amount of interference. I know way too many flier's who have lost rockets, using both GPS and RF tracking. Depending on where you land, signal can be lost, totally false or more than 180 degrees off. You need some serious experience in locating, to find them.

I have personally been out on hunts for myself [and others 6 times now] lasting from 3 -8 hours to find a rocket. We have gone to spots where GPS said it was, but when we got there it would re-plot to somewhere else...several times & no rocket!
I have no explanation for false GPS readings but that doesn't change the fact that 3 times I personally could not locate them or they weren't where they were supposed to be.

I think it would be HIGHLY advisable to do a test flight there, with a much smaller motor [5-6000 ft] to test your "locating" skills before risking the entire project. The test would reveal any flaws to your recovery set-up & what kind of drift you are in for.

Good luck, and please understand I'm not down on your attempt. I wish you success, but part of that is knowing what you are up against! You got some money wrapped up in those electronics and a test flight will increase your chance of getting your money back 10 fold at this field!
Click to expand...

Aieeeee, prudent advice. Shouldn't be a problem one lands "inside" the bowl but outside? Good gosh could be a problem. Plus there HAS to be a band of scirrilous Gnomes who live in the area who do nothing but grab rockets, run around with 'em
and then drop 'em when they tire out!:wink: That's gotta be it Jim...... Kurt
 
I'm planning on coming from Nova Scotia, Canada and flying a number of flights around the 15,000' altitude, a couple rockets aren't complete yet so I can't be more specific than that altitude. rockets vary from 38mm, 54mm, 75mm and 98mm with impulse from J-M. I will be flying gps in all flights using Telemetrum, Big Red Bee or both.

Since having never been anywhere outside Atlantic Canada flying rockets and obviously have no experience at the Potter Farm, your guys mentioning of "coming down in woods" , "outside the bowl" and "numbers of lost rockets" have me a little concerned!
Are lost rockets a common occurrence at this LDRS location? What is the probability of getting into a tree when flying over 10K? Are there any methods available for tree recovery there, as I can't bring my own? How thick are the woods?

I haven't really lost any hp rockets at our biggest flying area CFB Gagetown and although fairly open it has areas of alders/scrub trees that you can't see more than two feet through. I have recovered out to 1.5 miles from the launch area using gps, rdf or a combo of both without to much trouble. The biggest problem is just the hikes through the alder areas, tank tracks and such to get to the rocket.

Should I be rethinking the altitudes I'm seeking? Although that will be tough since I already have all the motors purchased and being delivered at the launch.

Greg
 
All I know is that I will be pulling out my 40 and 50 foot long shock cords... :) If a rocket gets stuck in a tree... I'll just pull it down. :p
 
rms said:
I'm planning on coming from Nova Scotia, Canada and flying a number of flights around the 15,000' altitude, a couple rockets aren't complete yet so I can't be more specific than that altitude. rockets vary from 38mm, 54mm, 75mm and 98mm with impulse from J-M. I will be flying gps in all flights using Telemetrum, Big Red Bee or both.

Since having never been anywhere outside Atlantic Canada flying rockets and obviously have no experience at the Potter Farm, your guys mentioning of "coming down in woods" , "outside the bowl" and "numbers of lost rockets" have me a little concerned!
Are lost rockets a common occurrence at this LDRS location? What is the probability of getting into a tree when flying over 10K? Are there any methods available for tree recovery there, as I can't bring my own? How thick are the woods?

I haven't really lost any hp rockets at our biggest flying area CFB Gagetown and although fairly open it has areas of alders/scrub trees that you can't see more than two feet through. I have recovered out to 1.5 miles from the launch area using gps, rdf or a combo of both without to much trouble. The biggest problem is just the hikes through the alder areas, tank tracks and such to get to the rocket.

Should I be rethinking the altitudes I'm seeking? Although that will be tough since I already have all the motors purchased and being delivered at the launch.

Greg
Click to expand...



Well they do have the "Squirrel" :)
 
rms said:
I'm planning on coming from Nova Scotia, Canada and flying a number of flights around the 15,000' altitude, a couple rockets aren't complete yet so I can't be more specific than that altitude. rockets vary from 38mm, 54mm, 75mm and 98mm with impulse from J-M. I will be flying gps in all flights using Telemetrum, Big Red Bee or both.

Since having never been anywhere outside Atlantic Canada flying rockets and obviously have no experience at the Potter Farm, your guys mentioning of "coming down in woods" , "outside the bowl" and "numbers of lost rockets" have me a little concerned!
Are lost rockets a common occurrence at this LDRS location? What is the probability of getting into a tree when flying over 10K? Are there any methods available for tree recovery there, as I can't bring my own? How thick are the woods?

I haven't really lost any hp rockets at our biggest flying area CFB Gagetown and although fairly open it has areas of alders/scrub trees that you can't see more than two feet through. I have recovered out to 1.5 miles from the launch area using gps, rdf or a combo of both without to much trouble. The biggest problem is just the hikes through the alder areas, tank tracks and such to get to the rocket.

Should I be rethinking the altitudes I'm seeking? Although that will be tough since I already have all the motors purchased and being delivered at the launch.

Greg
Click to expand...


Too would like some more input on people who have flown 10,000ft + there.
 
rms said:
I'm planning on coming from Nova Scotia, Canada and flying a number of flights around the 15,000' altitude, a couple rockets aren't complete yet so I can't be more specific than that altitude. rockets vary from 38mm, 54mm, 75mm and 98mm with impulse from J-M. I will be flying gps in all flights using Telemetrum, Big Red Bee or both.
Since having never been anywhere outside Atlantic Canada flying rockets and obviously have no experience at the Potter Farm, your guys mentioning of "coming down in woods" , "outside the bowl" and "numbers of lost rockets" have me a little concerned!
Are lost rockets a common occurrence at this LDRS location? What is the probability of getting into a tree when flying over 10K? Are there any methods available for tree recovery there, as I can't bring my own? How thick are the woods?
I haven't really lost any hp rockets at our biggest flying area CFB Gagetown and although fairly open it has areas of alders/scrub trees that you can't see more than two feet through. I have recovered out to 1.5 miles from the launch area using gps, rdf or a combo of both without to much trouble. The biggest problem is just the hikes through the alder areas, tank tracks and such to get to the rocket.
Should I be rethinking the altitudes I'm seeking? Although that will be tough since I already have all the motors purchased and being delivered at the launch.
Greg
Click to expand...

If you have dual deploy, tracking devices, buzzers/alarms and long shock cords you will be fine. There are lots of open fields behind the trees. There are people at the field who will lend a hand with recovery aids and even recovery. For that warm fuzzy feeling bring a sling shot, weights and light line.

The main field at Potter is huge (West to East almost 2km wide). The dried lake runs roughly SSW to NNE and is in a depression with a higher ridges on the East than the West. If you watch what rockets do once up out of the bowl between the ridges you get an idea where you will end up if apogee involves main chutes.

I have landed in trees twice flying at Potter. Once with main at apogee and once with wind cocking on a clustered flight. The first was recovered by a local lad who climbed up the tree and cut it down. The second rockets shock cord was reachable and I just pulled it out of the tree.

LDRS has so many flights you will easily get an idea of where things are heading once at altitude.

Good luck at LDRS34!

Threemorewishes
 
IMHO, flights above 10K pretty much anywhere on the east regardless of the field are at increased risk. Trees abound at most any site - isolated, and sections of woods. Heck, there's a little strip of trees right behind where one parks at Potter. Sections of woods and fields past the farm in all directions. Sections of woods between some adjacent fields. As mentioned, irrigation ditches that are not insignificant. It is a very nice place to fly, perhaps the nicest in the eastern US. But no site around this part of the continent is perfect.

I flew an O at Potter two years ago to 18 and change. We had excellent visual on the landing. It still took a couple hours of walking around in an area of small fields and strips of woods to get the rocket. We knew roughly where it was. We didn't know how to get there.

Gerald
 

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