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It's getting easier and easier to justify a RMS. Jeez, do they realize they're going to loose they're customer base?

I hear ya there on the RMS comment.
You can get a 3-pak of full 40 n-sec 24mm RMS E's for a little less than the list price of a 3-pak of Estes "cant lift nuthin" 28 n-sec E9 SU engines.
Their prices for BP engines are getting really ignorant.
I wish Quest would offer BP engines that are actually DIFFERENT from the Estes offerings such as some decent core-burners in 18 and 24mm.
Quite frankly, I think charging more than $1.50 each for any 18mm BP motor is overpriced based on the bang-for-buck in n-sec compared to 24mm RMS stuff.

I almost never buy BP SU motors without a 40-50% off Hobby Lobby or Michael's coupon.
I just wish they would carry the B6-6 and D12-7 engines.
It really ticks me off when I have to pay nearly full-retail at Hobby Town USA for a 3-pak of 5 n-sec B6-6's when I can get D12-3's and -5's at Michael's for less with the coupon. They say support your local hobby shop, but I cannot justify paying close to double what I can order stuff for. If the prices were between 10 and 20% more than ordering online or shopping at Michael's, I think the hobby shops would actually make more profit dollars.
I NEVER buy Aerotech SU or RMS locally in the hobby shop as they are all charging outrageous RIPOFF prices (full list or more)....even with the hazmat charge I can order a LOT cheaper.

Because of Estes' price hike, especially with Cs and greater at H.L., I bought both 18 & 24 mm RMS casings. So I'm with you guys.

Still will fly BP, but . . .

1) This should be in the vendor forum.

2) Estes prices vs. RMS vs. Estes profits and market share: The numbers indicate that the comments here by those representing a MICROSCOPIC percentage of the US and world customer base are emotional and not based in fact. The comments also neglect to consider the "Fear factor" of losing a grossly expensive casing and the effect on the ROI.

3) I am guessing that the only reason there was not as large a price increase as usual is that the overall sales volume for Estes is less than their projections or wishes. That does not mean they are losing market share to anyone. Toy sales are off quite a bit in general.

By "customer base" I meant the 12-14 year old who wanders into hobby shop (A rare occurrence anyway) with his allowance and sees the rockets and thinks "That might be fun." Then they see the price on motors. Their eyes bulge as they realize they need to blow that much with every three flights. The 12 year old then realizes that he may as well save up and buy the latest Blood-an'-Guts Splatter-fest on the Play Box. At least you only have to buy that once.

Yeah but Wally World buys a heck of a lot more at one shot.
Mark T
PS I RARELY go to Wal Mart for my motors. I usually buy the bulk packs at Michaels with the 40%.

Estes' prices went up because it costs more to take the lead out of the products. You know, like gasoline... :surprised:

MKP said:

By "customer base" I meant the 12-14 year old who wanders into hobby shop (A rare occurrence anyway) with his allowance and sees the rockets and thinks "That might be fun." Then they see the price on motors. Their eyes bulge as they realize they need to blow that much with every three flights. The 12 year old then realizes that he may as well save up and buy the latest Blood-an'-Guts Splatter-fest on the Play Box. At least you only have to buy that once.

Click to expand...

Yep, that is pretty much the case with me. I refuse to shop at Hobby Lobby unless I have a coupon on hand or I am in a real need for something.

I just paid $17 bucks for a 3-pack of Aerotech E18's, and Estes wants $18 for two wimpy E11's?

Sure makes the purchase of the Rouse Tech 24mm reloadable worth the price in my book!

Johnnie

This discussion starts every year around the 2nd or 3rd week of December.

Everybody wines and moans about a price increase from Estes.

And yet people keep buying their products.

Hrmm...

WShoreRockets said:

This discussion starts every year around the 2nd or 3rd week of December.

Everybody wines and moans about a price increase from Estes.

And yet people keep buying their products.

Hrmm...

Click to expand...

Other than the re-release rocket kits, I have not purchased an Estes BP motor in many moons...

Johnnie

Yeah I haven't bought an Estes product since discovering mid-high power

WShoreRockets said:

This discussion starts every year around the 2nd or 3rd week of December.

Everybody wines and moans about a price increase from Estes.

And yet people keep buying their products.

Hrmm...

Click to expand...

Only two reasons for me buying there motors. 1. As I don't have a job (yet) I can't afford bigger better motors. 2. Most of my rockets are at the moment 18mm and no one in Bloomington sells Quest.

Just for clarification.... I'll buy ONE Flight pak, maybe TWO(of course using Michaels 40%off coupons) That usually lasts me at least 2 years.
I still have a boatload left from this past flying season And yes, I fly LPR, MPR, and HPR.
Mark T NAR27793 L2

WShoreRockets said:

And yet people keep buying their products.

Click to expand...

My belief is that Estes makes most of it's money from one or two time purchases, from your average curious person off the street, with the majority of Estes' purchases being accomplished in the toy isle at Wal-mart.

Also, let's face it - according to a poll I did here on TRF a year or two ago, most of us were either introduced to rocketry through Estes or have bought their kits at some point. Out of tons of responses, I think there was only a single "no" vote to a person never having experienced an Estes product.

MarkH said:

... I wonder how long Wal-mart can continue to hold the line and sell a pack of Cs for $4.97 when the list is now 9.15....

Click to expand...

Very simple answers.

They can keep doing a very long time.

Why? Because the price they pay to Estes is a lot less than 4.97 a pack and they make money.

Something about Walmart getting a very low price because they buy so much and are the biggest retailer in the world.

sunward said:

Very simple answers.

They can keep doing a very long time.

Why? Because the price they pay to Estes is a lot less than 4.97 a pack and they make money.

Something about Walmart getting a very low price because they buy so much and are the biggest retailer in the world.

Click to expand...

The profit margin at wallyworlds C6 is tiny so Mom and Pop hobby shops have to sell for close to $10.00 to keep up "The Companys" profit margin up. Then they wonder why hobby shops close. The hobby shops wholsale cost is more then what Wallyworld sells them for. Kind of like we don't sell many parts so most folks must not scratch build. Duhh if the nose cone for the Mosquito cost almost the same as the kit itself. Why not buy the kit and get the launch lug and body tube for almost free?
Mr Bob
Of Starlight Fame
They should be aming fot the 10 - 15 year olds not Donald Trump.

I recant, the Estes E9's and D12's actually come in 3-packs (which goes to show that I have not pruchased them in so long, that I forgot), and with a 40% off coupon at HL, they come in at a whoping $11 a pack...not too shabby.

Johnnie

One of the reasons I buy Quest A, B, C motors whenever possible.

Well In my elective class at my school, We go through the Estes Bulk paks like water! I have no choice but to purchase these on-line. And I don't mind shelling out the money cuz the kids love-it so much! Look, EVERYTHING gets more and more expensive all the time. We are subject to it in our hobby too!

Hmm... I just placed an order for two bulk packs, one Estes B6-4 and one Estes C6-5. Those will run me down 143€ including shipping.

Roughly counting 143€ = $212

now 212/48 = $4.41

And that $4.41, ladies and gentlemen, is for ONE motor.

So from somebody that does not have access to 40% off coupons or that can't order motors from places like RAH or Discount rocketry... stop whining!

(On a more serious side I can understand the feeling having to pay more for each flight. On the other hand, rocketry must be one of the cheaper hobbies there is if you look at it from the view of "enjoyment per hour"-cost. Let us use LPR for example, as the thread has to do with Estes motors.
A nice kit from a smaller vendor runds you down about $20. It takes somewhere between 4-8 hours to build it of built carefully, depending on how carefully you build it. Another few dollars are spent on paint/finishing. All in all you might spend about $5 an hour on your hobby. That is pretty cheap if you ask me!)

Johnnie said:

I just paid $17 bucks for a 3-pack of Aerotech E18's, and Estes wants $18 for two wimpy E11's?

Sure makes the purchase of the Rouse Tech 24mm reloadable worth the price in my book!

Johnnie

Click to expand...

E11's??? Cool!
But I think it is 3 E9's per pack :surprised:

ghost said:

E11's??? Cool!
But I think it is 3 E9's per pack :surprised:

Click to expand...

Like I said, it has been ages since I purchased any Estes motors...

I am lucky to live in an area that has a store which sells estes motors really cheap. I am not sure what some of you have against Estes "E" motors. I have a really nice 4 "E" motor cluster rocket that flies great. I get a pack of three for $10.00, can't touch that with Aerotech.

I was just thinking about the costs of being in a hobby. If sports is your hobby (watching them) then a ticket to a baseball game is at least $15 for bleacher seats and I know that's way low 'cause that's what I paid way back before Cleveland built their new stadium. Football costs a lot more (I have no idea what good soccer/rugby tickets cost on the other side of the pond either) and then I have to buy tickets for me AND my kids (and probably my wife). A round of golf is at least $40. Afew hours on the river will cost me a few gallons of gas and $20-30 to rent a canoe so that's not too bad.

The prices for model trains or slot cars have become seriously painful.

SCUBA diving has a lot of up front costs and then a tank of air is ten bucks (I haven't gone for a long time so I can't be sure of that either).

Think about it.

The last club launch I attended we had a few gallons of gas and maybe $20 in motors (bulk packs mostly) and we (me and my two boys) spent most of the day launching (and watching others which is almost as fun) rockets. The boys had almost more fun chasing rockets over and over and over. That's good exercise and makes it more fun for me since I don't have to.

Sure we complain about the increases, but it just ain't that bad...

My 2 cents.

tquigg said:

One of the reasons I buy Quest A, B, C motors whenever possible.

Click to expand...

Are you saying you can "find" Quest motors cheaper than Estes? Where do you get yours? Every place I have noticed the Quest cost the same if not more for the same size engine!