Why no colored tracking smoke option?

In recent years I've become increasingly distraught :surprised: over high-altitude white clouds that perfectly camouflage the white tracking smoke present in every commercial rocket motor today.

I would love to choose my tracking smoke color on cloudy days. Even if it were just black or red I'm guessing that would greatly improve one's ability to recover their rocket.

Git er done, Gary!!

=G=

Why not just add red chalk powder in your parachute, so when it pops you see a red cloud. It works well, from 1 mile you can see it VERY clearly.

I think colored tracking smoke would be great! Maybe AT can even offer different color tracking smoke/delay kits (they already have the delay part done!)

It would definately have a cool affect.

A while ago when AMW asked the forum what new products they would like to see, the majority of the responses were new propellant colors like pink, purple, propellant changing mid flight, and colored tracking smoke.

chicagonative17 said:

propellant changing mid flight, and colored tracking smoke.

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Changing mid flight? Wow people must have deep pockets.


Colored tracking smoke would be tough, not only that all the motors would need to be recertified with it. I wouldnt get your hopes up.

Quest motor smoke is a darker orange-ish color.

chicagonative17 said:

Why not just add red chalk powder in your parachute, so when it pops you see a red cloud. It works well, from 1 mile you can see it VERY clearly.

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Red chalk stains everything, you, your clothes and your rockets :surprised:

There is a Yellow chalk that is non staining and works in rockets as well

https://www.thortools.com/content/products/magichalk/

https://www.thortools.com/content/press/rockets.htm

Let me know what you guys think ?

You can start flying Black Jacks or Smokey Sams more often. If you really want colored tracking smoke, you can make a small compartment in your rocket and fit a small smoke canister in it.

Colored smoke is done with what they call "cool'' flame. The hi temp burn of a rocket motor would wash out any color.
I have added an extra 38mm tube in one of my rockets,just for fun and used Mammoth brand smoke bombs. They fit perfect in a AT 360 case and burn for 1 minute plus...come in red, blue yellow,and white. About 7 bucks for 3 paks,in most, but not all fireworks stores. The are other types, but these babies are long burn! Just tape extend the fuse by adding another short section and lead it over to the motor plume.
Remember part of our rule stipulate that it must be in a container such that a early landing or flight gone bad, will not cause any kind of brush fire. That's why I put them in a motor case. Keeps bad things from happening.

Have had some real strange looks and questions asked, when coming in under chute, with thick blue smoke spewing out. It does make following you rocket easy!

blackjack2564 said:

Colored smoke is done with what they call "cool'' flame. The hi temp burn of a rocket motor would wash out any color.
I have added an extra 38mm tube in one of my rockets,just for fun and used Mammoth brand smoke bombs. They fit perfect in a AT 360 case and burn for 1 minute plus...come in red, blue yellow,and white. About 7 bucks for 3 paks,in most, but not all fireworks stores. The are other types, but these babies are long burn! Just tape extend the fuse by adding another short section and lead it over to the motor plume.
Remember part of our rule stipulate that it must be in a container such that a early landing or flight gone bad, will not cause any kind of brush fire. That's why I put them in a motor case. Keeps bad things from happening.

Have had some real strange looks and questions asked, when coming in under chute, with thick blue smoke spewing out. It does make following you rocket easy!

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Awesome!!! Any pics??? I would do what you said, except for 2 things:
1) I would need to buy the AT 38/360 case, and that costs $$$
2) I live in California!

Any California-legal options?

the reason they don't do colored smoke in BP model rocket motors is that they would have to use dangergous expensive chemicals to get the color plus each different color would have to have its own EX number which would also add to the costs. Hence why you will never see colored smoke trains in model rocket type motors.

terry dean
nar 16158

shockwaveriderz said:

the reason they don't do colored smoke in BP model rocket motors is that they would have to use dangergous expensive chemicals to get the color plus each different color would have to have its own EX number which would also add to the costs. Hence why you will never see colored smoke trains in model rocket type motors.

terry dean
nar 16158

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Is there another alternative? Like the smoke bomb option? But legal in CA?

I came up with an idea. You can make a compartment out of an appropriately sized tube that attaches to the aft centering ring. After the tube's attached, drill a .25 in. hole through the centering ring in the center of the compartment/tube. Then when you're ready to fly, plug the hole with a rubber stopper securely tied to a strong string(make sure it's loose so it comes out with a slight tug, but not too loose so it falls out under the weight of the chalk dust). Fill the compartment with chalk dust or something similar and then plug the top of the tube with wadding and then a bulkhead or something else you can come up with. When the rocket's on the pad and completely ready to launch, tie the string on the rubber stopper securely onto the launch pad so that the stopper will be pulled out during launch. When it launches, the gees and gravity should cause the dust to stream out at a steady and timed pace. If the tracking powder isn't coming out fast enough, you can enlarge the hole a bit, and then fly it again to see if the hole is big enough. Maybe it'll work, maybe it won't, but it's worth a try.

ghost said:

Is there another alternative? Like the smoke bomb option? But legal in CA?

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make your own?:

https://chemistry.about.com/od/demonstrationsexperiments/ss/smokebomb_5.htm

I don't know specifically what form or type of commercial smoke bomb you are considering using. I don't know the law in CA to determine this. I assume a smoke bomb would be considered a "safe and sane" firewokrs" perhaps? If that was the case, then it might be ok in CA. Fred? what do you think?




Terry Dean
NAR 16158

shockwaveriderz said:

make your own?:

https://chemistry.about.com/od/demonstrationsexperiments/ss/smokebomb_5.htm

I don't know specifically what form or type of commercial smoke bomb you are considering using.
Terry Dean
NAR 16158

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Hi Terry,

doesn't CA need Pyro licenses to make Pyro and use it?

Art Upton said:

Hi Terry,

doesn't CA need Pyro licenses to make Pyro and use it?

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probably but then it would at least "legal"

I found this :

"Safe and Sane fireworks are those fireworks that may be purchased from fireworks stands in communities that allow the sale and use. All Safe and Sane fireworks must display the seal of the California State Fire Marshal and may only be sold and used between June 28 and July 4th or 5th, depending on the jurisdiction. These types of fireworks include cones, fountains, smoke bombs, etc."

This would seem to indicate that smoke bombs, even as "safe and sane" type require that they only be used between June 28 july 4th, depending on the local law.

https://www.fireworks.com/fireworks_laws/laws_california.asp

https://www.ca-fireworks.com/content/content-article.asp?ArticleID=496

You guys in CA are basically screwed.....CA has some of the strictest laws in the country regarding pyrotechnics. Always did and always will. Model Rocketry as late as 1963 was completely illegal in CA.

https://osfm.fire.ca.gov/pdf%5Cfireengineering\fw\FireworksHandbook2002.pdf

good luck

Terry Dean
NAR 16158

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metalwizard said:

Ive used these on high altitude flights... 3+ mins orange smoke

https://www.keepshooting.com/militarysurplus/flares/surplus-smoke-grenades.htm

I tracked my 4" goblin on a k1999n (98mm single grain warp 9) from about 1.5 miles away... walked right to it.

as for Aerotech delays.... they are all made of black jack propellant... I think that they just look much lighter because they are under almost NO pressure, and they are just basicly smoldering..

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Did you tie the canister to the recovery harness and have the nose cone somehow pull the pin?

.

I'm building a high altitude hybrid, with these bad boys there is virtually no smoke and certainly i is gone before apogee. I was thinking of adding a smoke generator used for checking out HVAC systems https://www.regin.com/index.html and having two colors, one go off at apogee, one at main deployment using an igniter and my altimeter. these 'smoke bombs' burn relatively cool and don't stain, any idea if it is legal (or smart) to use these things? A RC airplane guy suggested it.

Mike

NAR Level II

I asked about the S 103 (90 seconds of smoke). I asked if an igniter could set it off and if it is legal to use in CA. I also asked the price. I will post the response when I get it.