Easy to see high flyer?

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FL_Flyer

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Help a newbie BAR!

What's the biggest rocket I can buy that can reach 2000' of altitude on an Estes engine (single stage)?

What's easier to spot at that altitude, a long rocket or a fat one?

Also, for economy, what's the biggest rocket that can reach 2000' of altitude on a C6 or lower Estes engine (single stage)?

I'm looking for something that's easy to see all the way up. I don't want it to drift away on recovery so don't mind if it lands hard and needs a little repair work.
 
Originally posted by FL_Flyer
Help a newbie BAR!

What's the biggest rocket I can buy that can reach 2000' of altitude on an Estes engine (single stage)?

What's easier to spot at that altitude, a long rocket or a fat one?

Also, for economy, what's the biggest rocket that can reach 2000' of altitude on a C6 or lower Estes engine (single stage)?

I'm looking for something that's easy to see all the way up. I don't want it to drift away on recovery so don't mind if it lands hard and needs a little repair work.

You'll be hard pressed on this one, but the only Estes kit we know of on the market right now that matches your requirements would be the Estes Sizzler. It's not that "big" of a single stage model, and if the flying conditions are ideal, you should be able to
fly it ok on a C6-7 and (assuming you're flying from a very large, wide open field with little or no grass) recover it. My son had (and
I must emphasize the work "had") one, and we flew it four times, the first flight on a C6-7 at Hearne, TX. Certainly looked like it hit 2,000 feet +. Lost sight of it parachuting down, but was
able to find downrange when we could see the plastic 12" chute
fluttering above the grass (short grass, I might add). Next flight was on a Quest A6-4. Good, moderately high flight, but because
the casing diameter of the Quest motors are a bit smaller than the
Estes, the ejection charge simply escaped through the gaps in the motor mount and the model lawndarted. Fixed, we flew it again at a HPR launch in Fulshear on a C6-7 again. Same result
as the Hearne flight (lost in the glare of the sun...but was located in the ground about an hour later by spotting the fluttering chute). Last flight was at the JSC Ballunar Festival on a C6-7.
In an overcast, dreary day, the model simply vanished as soon as
it left the launch rod...never could find it afterwards.

Later, was able to find and purchase a Sizzler/Star Dart combo
pak at Wal-Mart for only $4.49!! Haven't built the second Sizzler
yet.
 
Thanks for the info, dwmzmm.


What about 1500' instead of 2000'?

Is long and skinny easier to spot than short and stubby?

(although I imagine it would be tough to reach 1500' with a "chubby" design)
 
Originally posted by FL_Flyer
Thanks for the info, dwmzmm.


What about 1500' instead of 2000'?

Is long and skinny easier to spot than short and stubby?

(although I imagine it would be tough to reach 1500' with a "chubby" design)

Actually, your not going to see much of a rocket that can reach such altitudes with C motors. In order to reach that sort of altitude you are going to need a fairly thin/small model which will be hard to see (as far as the *rocket* is concerned.

Two things that you can do to make visibility MUCH easier is:

1) after packing the recovery wadding and *before* your recovery device, put in a small amount of tracking powder. Good tracking powder is the color chalk you can buy at the hardware store used for carpenters "chalk lines". You can get this in all sorts of bright colors. It is very easy to spot this cloud of color dust when ejection occurs (at least that way you know which *part* of the sky your model is in :) )

2) Use a very long red or orange streamer instead of a parachute. First it will be easier to see a 6-8 foot streamer than a parachute, *plus* it will come down much quicker with much less drift.

As for model choices, I could point you to the following from FlisKits:

- Cheetah! - A two stage model that performs great in single stage mode.

- Flea - very small min diameter model. May be too small for your needs though.

You could also look at scratch building a kit to specifically meet your needs :)

hope this helps!
jim
 
Take a shovel or rake, stick it in the ground, walk 300 paces and turn and see how easy it can be spotted. Do the same with two or three tennis ball cans taped together.

Now imagine either of those flying straight up to '1500 and being "spotable."

A super smokey delay will be your best bet for tracking.
 
Originally posted by jflis
....

1) after packing the recovery wadding and *before* your recovery device, put in a small amount of tracking powder. Good tracking powder is the color chalk you can buy at the hardware store used for carpenters "chalk lines". You can get this in all sorts of bright colors. It is very easy to spot this cloud of color dust when ejection occurs (at least that way you know which *part* of the sky your model is in :) )

...

I've heard of talcum powder but never this. I happen to have some of this powder already. I'll remember to put it with my rocket stuff. How much is a good amount for say an Estes Alpha on a C-6?
 
C6 not C-6. Like C6-3, C6-5, C6-7.

Alpha is too short to get any decent amount of tracking powder inside.

Better to use a Quest C6-5 motor since it has MASSIVE amounts of tracking smoke.
 
Getting to 2000-feet is a trick by itself with a single stage, off-the-shelf kit.

What you need is something pretty aerodynamic. In addition to the Flis Kits that have been listed by Jim, I think Apogee sells a kit that is designed for high performance and standard 18mm motors. Other than that, one of the classic competition designs such as an Estes Sprint would be about the best you can do.

Jim Flis is correct about the streamer, either by itself or in addition to the 'chute (in the case of a really heavy rocket). I'd add that you want silver-backed Mylar since you can see it flashing in the sun as it flaps around.

My neices and nephews typically get pretty high with a common Estes Alpha using only a streamer. They have flown it over and over so I know a streamer by itself is OK with a well made Alpha. Don't know if they are getting to 2000-feet though.

And Shread is onto something there with the Quest motors; the tracking smoke really is pretty good.
 
Originally posted by SecretSquirrel
I have to agree with the above statements.

We offer these kits at Squirrel Works:

You can probably get 1700 to 1800 feet on C motors with the Imp and Space Ranger. On D motors you can get about the same altitude with the Valkyrie or Gremlin

The Gremlin is perfect when flown with the D12-5 or 7. However,
I'd strongly recommend using an 12" chute instead of the supplied
streamer...be sure to read my Product Review for this kit in the
EMRR. BTW, I will be flying my Gremlin at NSL - 2006 this Sunday
on the D12-7. Make sure the RSO clears the skies for this one!
 
Originally posted by dwmzmm
The Gremlin is perfect when flown with the D12-5 or 7. However,
I'd strongly recommend using an 12" chute instead of the supplied
streamer...be sure to read my Product Review for this kit in the
EMRR. BTW, I will be flying my Gremlin at NSL - 2006 this Sunday
on the D12-7. Make sure the RSO clears the skies for this one!

Oh, I forgot to include the Estes Star Dart (the sister to the Sizzler) for NSL - 2006, too. If the skies and wind are ideal, it will
go up on a C6-7...and will use the streamer that came with the
Gremlin kit!
 
Originally posted by dwmzmm
The Gremlin is perfect when flown with the D12-5 or 7. However,
I'd strongly recommend using an 12" chute instead of the supplied
streamer...be sure to read my Product Review for this kit in the
EMRR. BTW, I will be flying my Gremlin at NSL - 2006 this Sunday
on the D12-7. Make sure the RSO clears the skies for this one!

Wuss!!!! I'm flying E6-8's :D
 
Originally posted by SecretSquirrel
Wuss!!!! I'm flying E6-8's :D

Wow, Don, are you in a "space race" with me?! The E9-8 may
very well send that into orbit! Save that flight for Sunday (if you
can) so I'll be on hand to witness it, will you? Should make for a
great followup article for the EMRR piece...
 
Originally posted by stymye
waiting patiently for the Quest 18mm D

Yeah, me too. We, the Challenger 498 club officers, were talking about that at our club launch at Rushing Park, Katy, TX yesterday.
 
Originally posted by dwmzmm
Wow, Don, are you in a "space race" with me?! The E9-8 may
very well send that into orbit! Save that flight for Sunday (if you
can) so I'll be on hand to witness it, will you? Should make for a
great followup article for the EMRR piece...

Opps, I misread the motor you mentioned...what's the E6-8?
 
Originally posted by dwmzmm
Yeah, me too. We, the Challenger 498 club officers, were talking about that at our club launch at Rushing Park, Katy, TX yesterday.

Just remembered reading somewhere that Bill Stine is suppose to
be at NSL - 2006. Will be a superb opportunity to ask him about
Quest's D motors...
 
Originally posted by dwmzmm
Opps, I misread the motor you mentioned...what's the E6-8?

Apogee Medalist motor, 7.5 second bun time. Puts the Gremlin up to about 3500 feet. I've done this twice and gotten the rocket back. If I have trouble, I'll offer a Gremlin kit to the person that returns it.
 
Originally posted by SecretSquirrel
Apogee Medalist motor, 7.5 second bun time. Puts the Gremlin up to about 3500 feet. I've done this twice and gotten the rocket back. If I have trouble, I'll offer a Gremlin kit to the person that returns it.

Ok, recall I flew my son's Sizzler three times and lost it on the fourth flight. And this was at JSC's Ballunar Festival with several
hundred pair of eyes looking on. No one could see where it went
(maybe flew into rocket heaven).
 
Something else to consider, in addition to the tracking smoke, the tracking chalk, and the colored streamer is the material of the streamer. I've flown a couple models that came with a flashy mylar streamer that was practically a signal beacon on its way down.

WW
 
As long as you have a good eye you can track any small rocket. But once you lose sight of it. It is very difficult to spot. Sometimes tracking powder is confusing.

For my high-flyers I use an upscaled BT-50 version of Estes Wizard with a D12-5. I use a 2" wide 60" long piece of Paper Crepe Streamer. I also paint the rockets Yellow or Orange.
The fins are also made of 1/32" Plywood.

One thing about flying high that I do is make several of the same model. for some reason if I lose one I have a back up. and when I recover 1 of them I tend to find the rest. they usually land in the same area!
 

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