Loadstar II Failure and Crash (REPAIRED)

[rocketron1948]

Last week I flew my Warp II which is identical to the Loadstar with different decals. It had a C6-0 booster and B6-6 for the upper stage. The 2nd stage failed to ignite and it coresampled. It looked like the booster engine spit out of the booster before the 2nd stage could ignite. I didn't secure the booster engine tight enough with masking tape. It started to weathercock shortly after lift-off. The payload section was severely damaged. I wrote Estes Customer Service and they sent me a Loadstar kit free of charge. They are great in that respect. I don't think the 18 mm. engines provide enough boost. I wish Estes still made the B14-0 or a more powerful C booster. I'm thinking about going with 24 mm. mounts in both the booster and the sustainer on my rebuild. I have flown the Warp II a few other times with limited success.

Rocketron

 

[mwtoelle]

I have had no problems flying my Warp II with the recommended motors. I also tape my motors together with one wrap of cellophane tape. Generally, it is a bad idea to fly multistage model rockets if there is any wind over 5 MPH. Considering that Estes shows the empty weight of the Warp II at 2.83 oz., it is going to be relatively slow off the pad in any two stage motor combo. I did change the 1/8" lugs for 3/16" to reduce rod whip.

 

[Fred Garvin]

UPDATE:

The Loadstar II has been repaired and is once again ready for flight!

HUGE THANKS to Goldlizard, who generously sent an extra transition piece and payload tube! Just what I needed to repair the Loadstar II.



Back in flying form with the little Apollo Guy riding along:



But wait....there's another....who's this little guy hitching a ride on a rocket?



:wink:

Back among the Fleet:



This time, I'll secure the payload better and single stage it....knock out the NARTREK Silver Payload Flight first.....THEN work on some 2 staged flights....

 

[nute]

UPDATE:

The Loadstar II has been repaired and is once again ready for flight!

HUGE THANKS to Goldlizard, who generously sent an extra transition piece and payload tube! Just what I needed to repair the Loadstar II.

View attachment 143988

Back in flying form with the little Apollo Guy riding along:

View attachment 143989

But wait....there's another....who's this little guy hitching a ride on a rocket?

View attachment 143990

:wink:

Back among the Fleet:

View attachment 143991

This time, I'll secure the payload better and single stage it....knock out the NARTREK Silver Payload Flight first.....THEN work on some 2 staged flights....

Looking good!
good luck with that NARTREK payload!

 

[goldlizard]

UPDATE:

The Loadstar II has been repaired and is once again ready for flight!

HUGE THANKS to Goldlizard, who generously sent an extra transition piece and payload tube! Just what I needed to repair the Loadstar II.

View attachment 143988

Back in flying form with the little Apollo Guy riding along:

View attachment 143989

But wait....there's another....who's this little guy hitching a ride on a rocket?

View attachment 143990

:wink:

Back among the Fleet:

View attachment 143991

This time, I'll secure the payload better and single stage it....knock out the NARTREK Silver Payload Flight first.....THEN work on some 2 staged flights....

A HUGH YOUR WELCOME, Good luck on NARTREK Silver Payload Flight!!!
I hope my Grey Alien Adds a bit of luck on the flight!
Fly 'em high and straight!!!

 

[cbwho]

I think the above conclusions are not correct.

Rather, it’s the flawed design of the Loadstar.

I just had my Loadstar 2 RUD on me. A tad windy but other rockets basically flew straight up. Except the Loadstar after going 127 feet up, went 90 degrees perfectly horizontally into the wind and under high thrust went 500 feet and rammed into a tree 27 ft up and exploded.

mmm... I think the design is flawed...

Apogee states about a “feature” of the Loadstar

• What overstable rocket looks like when flown. This will introduce them to weathercocking

 

[K'Tesh]

I think the above conclusions are not correct.

Rather, it’s the flawed design of the Loadstar.

I just had my Loadstar 2 RUD on me. A tad windy but other rockets basically flew straight up. Except the Loadstar after going 127 feet up, went 90 degrees perfectly horizontally into the wind and under high thrust went 500 feet and rammed into a tree 27 ft up and exploded.

mmm... I think the design is flawed...

Apogee states about a “feature” of the Loadstar

• What overstable rocket looks like when flown. This will introduce them to weathercocking

That's one of those stories that really screams "Photo or video required."

For me, my WARP II (the same kit but with different livery)(c.a. 1993) turned somewhere around 180 degrees, under no thrust, and rammed itself into the ground. The payload did not survive the flight... Then again, I doubt that the egg was fertile anyway. Sustainer motor failed to ignite.

 

[cbwho]

K'Tesh,
I had video evidence but it flew off the rocket! It's snowing so the camera was lost. But my altimeter has a tied streamer, so that was easy to find. It's clear that Loadstars have too many calibers between the CG and CP so much so Apogee made note of it. I launched the Multi-roc and it flew fantastic. I had 3 little gliders piggybacked on it. Unfortunately 2 of those were lost due to sailing away, far away.

I also did a swing test on the Loadstar and also noticed the over stability of it.

P.S.
Perhaps, there is a possibility that the rocket got kicked into the wind before the sustainer got up to speed after the booster jettisoned??

Update: Someone wrote: D motors "to use as a booster for the Estes Loadstar II. Estes C just doesn't have the oomph to stop weathercocking even with just a Jolly Logic altimeter."
I was using only a B booster... Oh!

 

[cbwho]

One value from my Jolly Logic altimeter I found strange: top speed 37mph

The manual say the Altimeter mostly measures the first stage. So perhaps the mph of the first stage? 37mph is very slow.

Thrust time 0.78s
Peak acceleration: 6.3g
Coast apogee: 2.6s
Apogee eject: -2.6s
Avg accel 2.2G
ejection 23ft
altitude 229ft
descent 2mph
Duration 8 sec

 

[kyle]

Since the OP hasn't been on TRF in close to four years, he might not see the new analysis...

That said, I think the Loadstar just needs the right conditions for flight. Don't launch it when it's windy.

I have re-attached each booster fin at least once, and two of the sustainer fins due to hard landing surfaces, never popped more than one fin per flight. Total of more than 20 two stage flights on it. The only launch that ever had a problem with the "up" part was when I accidentally installed the sustainer engine upside down.

I think the design is fine.

 

[BABAR]

I just had my Loadstar 2 RUD on me. A tad windy but other rockets basically flew straight up. Except the Loadstar after going 127 feet up, went 90 degrees perfectly horizontally into the wind and under high thrust went 500 feet and rammed into a tree 27 ft up and exploded.

Was the tree growing on the top of a 100 foot cliff next to your launch site?

Define “explosion”?

Did you have a payload?

What was the weight of the full stack (motors and everything) on the pad?

Estes lists the LoadStar weight at 79.4 grams

https://estesrockets.com/product/003227-loadstar-ii/
I assume that is without motors.


C6-7 is 24.1 grams

https://estesrockets.com/product/001615-c6-7-engines/
C6-0 is 21.5 grams

Maximum recommended lift off weight is 113 grams

https://estesrockets.com/product/001616-c6-0-engines/
So the payloader WITHOUT a payload weighs in at about 125 grams, which is 12 grams over the maximum recommended lift off weight. It’s a cool looking rocket, but it’s not exactly sleek. A minor snag on the rod, a sudden gust of the wind, and the trajectory is no longer nominal. It’s even worse if you actually PUT a payload in it (okay, maybe a cricket, but I wouldn’t want to be the cricket.)

(FWIW it barely comes in under 113 grams with the LOWEST recommended stack, B6-0 to A8-5.). So much for payloading.

Estes is crystal clear (the following is cut and pasted from the current Estes site)

“• Do not fly a rocket/engine combination whose lift-off weight exceeds the recommended maximum lift-off weight.”

https://estesrockets.com/wp-content/uploads/Educator/Estes_Engine_Chart.pdf
Estes makes cool rockets, unfortunately this is another good example of Estes building a rocket with an 18mm Motor Mount and suggesting a motor choice sufficient to fly it in less than pristine flying conditions.

Here’s hoping Estes will release a C5-0 or QuestJet will come up with a Zero Delay 18mm composite (although I am not sure if you can physically do that with a composite?.)

 

[cbwho]

I had a B6-0 booster and a C6-5 sustainer with a jollylogic altimeter and a tiny camera that weighs the same as an altimeter.
So given what you say above, overweight. I still believe the Loadstar to be a flawed design. It should be set up for D motors and if D boosters don't exist then Loadstars should not be produced. It's underpowered in its current setup.

 

[BABAR]

I had a B6-0 booster and a C6-5 sustainer with a jollylogic altimeter and a tiny camera that weighs the same as an altimeter.
So given what you say above, overweight. I still believe the Loadstar to be a flawed design. It should be set up for D motors and if D boosters don't exist then Loadstars should not be produced. It's underpowered in its current setup.

Yuppers. It’s far from being their first. To be fair, the vast majority of their rockets fly well on recommended motors. I was fortunate, I read reviews on the Venus Probe and ExoSkell and modded then for Ds. I was unfortunate with the MIRV, had I done my homework I probably wouldn’t have bought it. No good way to put a D in the booster, at least not until/unless QuestJet can come out with a zero delay. Or possibly Estes with a C5-0.