Paper Transition for Maxi Brute Honest John

[SteveA]

I would like to scratch this and use a solid balsa nose. My question is this, do you think that 110 lb card stock would be rigid enough to handle the weight of the nose cone? Or perhaps I should go a little heavier? I want something pliable enough that I won't need to fight trying roll into the transition and avoid creases and having it look like a section of the Graf Zeppelin.


As always, thanks for your time and input.

Steve

 

[mikeyd]

I would suggest using a longer 2.6in tube, and let it support the Balsa NC. This is how Estes did the original bt 50 size they made many years ago. As can be seen here. https://www.spacemodeling.org/JimZ/k-27.htm

 

[mwtoelle]

Why not just have nose cone and transition turned as one piece, or are you trying to keep the weight down? Also, what motors do you intend to use?

 

[Gary Byrum]

The above suggestions are very good. 110 lb paper should do well if you go that route. If it were me, I'd turn it all. But I have a lathe.

 

[SteveA]

I am trying to keep the weight down. I had thought of having the Sandman turn it for me. I'm using a cluster of three 24mm, E12s. (I know the real one was a single motor, but I wanted to squeeze some altitude out of it) I guess I can redesign it with the transition being solid balsa and see how it'll perform. Might even try the extra tube support.

Thanks guys for the input.

Steve

 

[Gary Byrum]

I am trying to keep the weight down. I had thought of having the Sandman turn it for me. I'm using a cluster of three 24mm, E12s. (I know the real one was a single motor, but I wanted to squeeze some altitude out of it) I guess I can redesign it with the transition being solid balsa and see how it'll perform. Might even try the extra tube support.

Thanks guys for the input.

Steve

You're worried about weight while using a cluster of E12's? Dood! it ain't that much weight really. You have to remember back when Estes designed these rockets that they were ALL about as little weight as possible. We have bigger and stronger engines these days.

 

[sandman]

I am trying to keep the weight down. I had thought of having the Sandman turn it for me. I'm using a cluster of three 24mm, E12s. (I know the real one was a single motor, but I wanted to squeeze some altitude out of it) I guess I can redesign it with the transition being solid balsa and see how it'll perform. Might even try the extra tube support.

Thanks guys for the input.

Steve

That is a massive balsa nose cone!!!

I've made them before. Basically I need to start with an 18+ 4" x 4" chunk of balsa or I can glue it up from smaller pieces.

The transition would work, it's been done. See drawing 1. Much cheaper.

View attachment BT 80 HONEST JOHN-2.pdf

View attachment BT-80 Honest John Working dwg.pdf

 

[Gary Byrum]

Now that I took a look at the specs, I see this is a much bigger rocket than I thought. If you know about the "crack" method, you can split the nose down the middle and hollow the inside out. I did this once with great success. Starting at the base of the nose you can actually crack the nose in half, (I used a large chisel) and twisted and dug in until the nose cracked. No hammering. I have this nice shank bit for the Dremel that worked like a charm for wood removal. It's #121 in this line up. Cracking allows you to glue the nose back together and almost completely seamless.

 

[SteveA]

You're worried about weight while using a cluster of E12's? Dood! it ain't that much weight really.

Yeah, I know...Now. I redesigned it with a solid balsa nose and the change in flight results were negligible.The overall mass now, and loaded, is a little over 18ozs. As far as the "Crack" method I'd have no clue what I would be doing. That's why I rely upon Gord to make the nose cones for me. Which judging from his initial response, I may have given him a heart attack on this one.:wink:

I have a little German guy (and he's as German as they get, he came here after WWII) whom I've asked if he would teach me how to do this. When I told him it was balsa he had a fit. I'm assuming you guys are sanding these to shape on a lathe, right?

Gord, you still have my e-mail address? If you have a cost idea I'd be interested. I was thinking of tackling this project over the summer.

 

[SteveA]

I'd upload the RS file, but for some reason I am unable to attach files if I'm responding to my own thread.

 

[rocketguy101]

You could go two ways with this, if you use the transition. Either glue all together and use a balsa bulkhead as the shoulder (what I call V1), or glue the short BT-80 with a coupler and pop off the balsa nose like mikeyd suggested similar to the Estes K-27 model (I am calling it V2 below). Using Sandman's drawings, I modeled in Solidworks so you can see the different ways.

If you coat the cardstock transition with CA it will harden and act like plastic.

 

[sodmeister]

You could go two ways with this, if you use the transition. Either glue all together and use a balsa bulkhead as the shoulder (what I call V1), or glue the short BT-80 with a coupler and pop off the balsa nose like mikeyd suggested similar to the Estes K-27 model (I am calling it V2 below). Using Sandman's drawings, I modeled in Solidworks so you can see the different ways.

If you coat the cardstock transition with CA it will harden and act like plastic.

All those way would work nicely.

Steve ,have a look at my BLU Smart bomb scratch build.There you will see my transitions i made and how I use internal CR stiffeners as well as doing the double transition routine and 20 min finish cure epoxy coat.As well ,you could use 20 min finishing epoxy and nice light fiberglass cloth (3/4 or 2 Oz.) although you really will not need it.

HTH

Paul T

 

[terryg]

Discount Rocketry has a Maxi Brute sized HoJo that is a good flyer.

https://www.discountrocketry.com/mo...p-2614.html?osCsid=v6ctf2v35q5vh4gko7t42jmnb3

Check and see if you can get the nosecone from them.

Another option for scratch building the transition is to use thin plywood instead of card stock. Michael's carries some sizes that are very flexible.

 

[terryg]

I have always wanted the large Polecat HoJo:

https://web.archive.org/web/2010010...e-15/Polecat-Aerospace-5.5"-Honest/Detail.bok

As it is no longer available, I might just have to scratch build one.

 

[sodmeister]

I have always wanted the large Polecat HoJo:

https://web.archive.org/web/2010010...e-15/Polecat-Aerospace-5.5"-Honest/Detail.bok

As it is no longer available, I might just have to scratch build one.

That kit is OOP ??????

Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo........

I wanted to get that this winter !

The Madcow looks like a great option !

Paul T

 

[SteveA]

Got your message Paul, I sent an e-mail to Gord to see what it would cost for the solid one piece nose cone-transition which seems to be the simplest solution. I wanted to avoid a card transition if I could. I've done one before with the TLP Nike-Ajax, but for the moment I'd like to take the path of least resistance...I'm a lazy fart, I know. If the one piece is kinda pricey I'll go with the paper transition and try both techniques you guy's provided.

 

[terryg]

Jack says that he currently doesn't have enough time to produce kits, so his inventory is steadily decreasing. I had been looking at the 4 inch Jayhawk and it is no longer available (still has the 5.5 inch version though).

 

[sodmeister]

Jack says that he currently doesn't have enough time to produce kits, so his inventory is steadily decreasing. I had been looking at the 4 inch Jayhawk and it is no longer available (still has the 5.5 inch version though).

I built the Polecat 4" Jayhawk ,my first kit from jack....it`s a very nice kit!

I had my eye on his big Bullpup ,but cash is tight right now ,so hopefully he will have one by next spring ??

Paul t

 

[sodmeister]

Got your message Paul, I sent an e-mail to Gord to see what it would cost for the solid one piece nose cone-transition which seems to be the simplest solution. I wanted to avoid a card transition if I could. I've done one before with the TLP Nike-Ajax, but for the moment I'd like to take the path of least resistance...I'm a lazy fart, I know. If the one piece is kinda pricey I'll go with the paper transition and try both techniques you guy's provided.

Whatever you decide, I look forward to your build.

Cheers

Paul T